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Why it Does Not Make Sense to Say You are Pro life for Yourself (Page 1)

Many pro-choice people say something like this:

I am pro-choice for other people but pro-life for myself. This connotes a misunderstanding of what pro-choice means.

Pro-choice means the belief that every woman has the choice to either carry a pregnancy to term, terminate the pregnancy, or continue the pregnancy and give the resulting child up for adoption.

Pro-life means the belief that the government should have the control over these decisions instead of the woman herself.

So, if you say you are pro-choice for others but pro-life for yourself, you are really saying this:

I want all other women besides me to be able to freely choose what to do with her own pregnancy, whether that means to have a baby or not have a baby. For myself, I wish to relinquish control over my body to the government.

See?

You are actually pro-choice for yourself even if you would not have an abortion yourself. You are still CHOOSING what to do about your own pregnancy.
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Users who thank aochriss for this post: diamondsz  Darkmoon 

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replied October 7th, 2008
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Chriss amazing, you phrased it alot better than me (I'm lacking communication lol.)

We make choices all the time so wouldn't everyone but the add religious fundie/cult be pro-choice, whether you believe in abortion or not you are making that choice...

I think I love you chriss (not literally of course)
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replied October 7th, 2008
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I love you, really. Smile
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replied October 7th, 2008
Active User, very eHealthy
I must admit, that always annoys me...just like women that always say they are prochoice but immediately toss out the disclaimer "I've never had an abortion". Being apologetic for having respect for women's reproductive rights is weak. If a person feels guilt for treating women as autonomous, sentient PEOPLE rather than breeding machines, they should not put up disclaimers or be apologetic for it. If it's unsavory enough to them that they must do that then they shouldn't proclaim themselves to be prochoice. Perhaps "pro-circumstance" would be a more accurate term, since they don't see themselves aborting under the same circumstances that other women might yet they support other women's right to do so.
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replied October 7th, 2008
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Well obviously I can only speak for myself, so here's my opinion on it. I'm pro-choice and a mother. I DO feel the need to explain to some people here that I've never had an abortion AND have reproduced, because it seems that a lot of pro-life people are under the impression that pro-choice = pro-abortion, and that if you're pro-choice you automatically think every pregnancy should be terminated. I know that I, for one, like to throw out that I've never had an abortion and am a mother myself, because it immediately puts a chip in the pro-choice stereotype that's constantly thrown on us.

A lot of people don't seem to see the "choice" part of pro-choice, and don't believe that pro-choice also embraces pregnancy and adoption as options. I'm for the woman choosing ANY option for herself - pregnancy, adoption, or abortion - and having those three options open to her and allowing her to freely choose which is right for her and her situation. I'm allowed to feel that way about other people without being automatically labeled as a pro-abortionist who thinks pregnancy is disgusting and hates children. That's exactly why I tell people I've never had an abortion. I'm not apologetic about being pro-choice, and I'm not shy about being a pro-choice parent.

This wasn't directed at anyone in particular - just putting my two cents in. I don't consider myself "pro-life for myself". I'm pro-choice all the way, and I've made parenting my choice.
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replied October 7th, 2008
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Aya when did pro=choice mean pro=abortion?

Just because you are pro-choice we dont look at you as being a certain way, I think the point that is trying to be made is "why are you trying to prove yourself?"

Be pro-choice and be happy with who you are!
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replied October 7th, 2008
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AyaMiyaki, I see where you are coming from. That's a good point.


diamondsz wrote:
Aya when did pro=choice mean pro=abortion?

Just because you are pro-choice we dont look at you as being a certain way, I think the point that is trying to be made is "why are you trying to prove yourself?"

Be pro-choice and be happy with who you are!


You would not believe the ignorance in the pro-life movement. Aya is correct that many incorrectly believe pro-choice= pro-abortion.
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replied October 7th, 2008
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Many pro-life people who have come here believe that pro-choice = pro-abortion. I've had people here ask me why I like killing babies, which is ridiculous to me since I've never had an abortion and am currently pregnant. The only "choice" they see when they think of pro-choice is abortion. They don't know (or are otherwise ignoring) the fact that pro-choicers also support keeping a pregnancy and either parenting the child or giving it up for adoption.
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replied October 8th, 2008
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I'm not saying that they don't I just dont wan't people to be intimadated by them. Its scary when your told you are a rotten person, then aftewards you don't give shytes worth lol.
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replied October 8th, 2008
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I'm definitely not intimidated by them, but I will absolutely do my best to correct the stereotype that every pro-choice person despises pregnancy and children. I won't allow anyone to make me feel guilty for supporting the woman's right to choose. Pro-life needs to understand that the pro-choice movement doesn't just consist of people who want to live child-free - it also consists of people who choose to give birth and love children.
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Users who thank AyaMiyaki for this post: diamondsz 

replied October 8th, 2008
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Most women who have had abortions go on to have children, so that is good to point out to the ignorant people as well. In fact, most women who get abortions (61%) already have one or more children before they have an abortion.

I see what others mean about announcing you've never had an abortion. It can look as if you are saying you are somehow better than women who have had abortions, because the people you are talking to in that context hate women who have aborted.

I don't think Aya is coming across like that in any way, though.

Many women who are pro-choice would not abort if they got pregnant currently, because maybe they are trying to have a baby, or a baby would be welcome in their lives because they are financially and emotionally stable. They just don't feel the need to espouse those particular facts, however, because all the pro-life people hear is another person saying "Oh I would NEVER lower myself to have an abortion.", even though that is not what was mean by the pro-choice person at all.
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replied October 20th, 2008
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I say that I am prolife for myself because I do not equate pro-life with anti-choice, just as I do not equate pro-choice with pro-abortion. I am prolife for myself because, given my life, given my situations throughout my life, I have never been in a situation that required me to choose. Even at 17, I knew I was capable financially, emotionally, completely ready for a child. I went on to have my child. Pro-life does not have to mean anti-choice. I choose to let my child live because I was never in a situation where any choice had to be made. That being said, I am all-around pro-choice, which given my definition of pro-choice, includes the choice to be pro-life (remember there is a difference between pro-life and anti-choice, just as there is a difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion). While I could personally not abort unless medical or life threatening situations arise, I would always want that option available to me, and to every other woman. Because I feel, once you start tampering with the rights of the woman vs the rights of an unborn, you are treading murky water. Where do you draw the line? At rape? At incest? At medical conditions? That is resorting to lowering a woman to her most primal: a reproductive vessel. And that is also lowering her rights. I know it is possible to not be able to choose abortion for yourself but give others the right to choose. And part of my reasoning stems from the fact that I have never been put in a situation that would require such a difficult decision. I know many women who have though, and I fully support and understand their decision. I choose to be pro-life for myself unless a situation arises (such as rape, my life being endangered...I have had two ectopics, but those cannot be counted as abortions...or wait, to some sick anti-abortionist out there, I am sure they can, or my fetus' life being endangered)where the pro-choice part of me will kick in. I will always be pro-choice for myself and for every other woman. But I can be pro-life at the same time. I can choose my fetus' life. Just as I can choose my own life.
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Users who thank motherofhighspiritedones for this post: Milan 

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replied October 20th, 2008
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If someone wants to be prolife for themselves, great. So long as they can choose for themself, just like I want to.
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replied October 21st, 2008
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AyaMiyaki wrote:
I'm definitely not intimidated by them, but I will absolutely do my best to correct the stereotype that every pro-choice person despises pregnancy and children. I won't allow anyone to make me feel guilty for supporting the woman's right to choose. Pro-life needs to understand that the pro-choice movement doesn't just consist of people who want to live child-free - it also consists of people who choose to give birth and love children.
the ability to choose is an ability that cannot be controlled. there is no such thing as a "right to choose". a right is something that everybody needs. and since unfortunately for you not everybody is a woman there is no such thing as "women's rights".
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replied October 21st, 2008
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Oh yes there are. Just as children have their own rights, women have rights as well. Men have rights too. And yes the ablility to choose can be controlled. Example: I am choosing to eat a trail mix bar this morning versus a bowl of cereal. And I choose to support the right to abort if a woman wants too. I could have had that bowl of cereal or I could have chosen to be anti-abortion. So, yes there is the right to choose.
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replied October 21st, 2008
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phlem wrote:
a right is something that everybody needs. and since unfortunately for you not everybody is a woman there is no such thing as "women's rights".


That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's like saying there's no such thing as human rights because not every life on this planet is human. Or no such thing as a child's rights because not everyone is a child.

On the other hand, unfortunately for you pregnancy only occurs within a woman, therefore it is her right to decide what to do with it.
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replied October 21st, 2008
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phlem wrote:
the ability to choose is an ability that cannot be controlled. there is no such thing as a "right to choose".


You're half right. The ability to choose is an ability that cannot always be controlled. Look at countries that have outlawed abortion. Our "Medical Abortion" forum is filled with posts from females from these countries who are trying to abort their pregnancy despite the law.

But the law that is in place is barring their right to choose. They are not legally allowed to choose another option for their pregnancy. They are breaking their countries laws by exercising their ability to choose - and they're putting themselves at harm's risk to do it, because they are forced to use home methods or pills bought over the internet (which may or may not work or be safe).

Any person should have the right to seek medical treatment for an ailment. Since pregnancy only affects females and these countries outlaw females from having their pregnancy terminated, they are directly affecting a female's rights. But oh wait, I forgot - you don't believe in female's rights. We're only containers after all. glance
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replied October 21st, 2008
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[quote="AyaMiyaki"]
phlem wrote:
the ability to choose is an ability that cannot be controlled. there is no such thing as a "right to choose".


You're half right. The ability to choose is an ability that cannot always be controlled. Look at countries that have outlawed abortion. Our "Medical Abortion" forum is filled with posts from females from these countries who are trying to abort their pregnancy despite the law.

But the law that is in place is barring their right to choose. They are not legally allowed to choose another option for their pregnancy. They are breaking their countries laws by exercising their ability to choose - and they're putting themselves at harm's risk to do it, because they are forced to use home methods or pills bought over the internet (which may or may not work or be safe). you are failing to grasp a basic concept. the ability to choose can never be controlled. choosing is a part of the process of thinking so as long as a person has the ability to think a person has the ability to choose and that can never be controlled. only the choices that are available can be controlled and that is not choosing those are choices two completely diferent things. pro-choicers are constantly confusing choosing with choices.and the only thing that is debatable is wether or not pro-choicers are doing that intentionally or not. since the ability to choose cannot be controlled there is no such thing as a right to choose because it is pointless to have aright to something that cannot be controlled.
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replied October 21st, 2008
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YES the ability to choose can be controlled. And the right to choice is a universal right. Let me put it in a way you can understand. You are fond of bringing up slavery, Hitler and war. So now I will bring it up. Hitler chose to defile and dehumanize the Jewish race. He had the right to choose to do so. But the entire world also had the right to defend the Jewish race, which had ALL of their choices taken away from them. So we chose to protect the Jewish race. We can choose wether or not to go to war with a country based on their actions and our beliefs of their actions. It does not mean that we are always right or that they are. As far as choosing to inslave people for our own means, that was also a choice. We could have chosen not to.
So you telling me that making choices cannot be controlled because they are thought processes is absurd. I can always choose what I want to wear, can always choose what I want to eat. UNTIL someone like you takes away my right to choose. And yes, you can take away someone else's right to make choices and choose. And you are right in a way about choosing being a thought process. But you are wrong that it is not a right. Because when you take away someone's right to choose, you are taking away their basic human rights. Therefore there is a right to choice. That is why we fought so hard for Gay rights to marriage. They have the right to choose their life partners. That is a right to choice. Just as an abortion is a right to choice. And adoption. And birth. The ability to choose can be controlled by unfair laws and vendettas. We outlawed the choice to have a slave. We outlawed the choice to abort a long time ago. And now its legal to abort. Get over it. It is a right.
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replied October 21st, 2008
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Its not even worth my time arguing with you Zygote, Few, phlem, whatever. You think I am a mere container, that I am here for one purpose, to get knocked up constantly and be barefoot in the kitchen. Too bad that I am not a male in your narrowminded world. Because then the right to abortion would not even affect your opinion of me. I would be free to spread my seed, free to do whatever I wanted. But since I don't actually belong in your little fantasy world where men are gods and women are mere vessels, I am still free to do what I want. Suck it up.
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