Medical Questions > Debate Forums > Abortion Debate Forum

Pro-abortions Arguments Vs. the Facts. (Page 3)


User Profile
August 12th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
marytartor wrote:
Yes I do consider myself pro-choice. And yes the pope says that pro-life is the only way. But I also acknowledge that not everyone follows my religion or believes in my G-d. I live a pro-life existence, but I do not think I have the right to force my views on an entire nation. The point of the government is to protect the people's bodies, to keep their body from coming to harm. It is not George Bush's or any other politician's job to save the souls of a nation.

Also I cannot emphasize this more what affect does it have on you? If some one Washington killed a fetus.


I wasn't saying you had to force you thoughts on anyone. but I would think being a catholic you would abide by the catholic and God's beliefs.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied August 12th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
meblonde01 wrote:
Birch wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:

Ok.. Doesn't it seem like there are a lot of Christian making up their own views on things. I have notice that when some Christians beleive that Homosexually is ok then they seem to disregard what the bible says about it. And start saying it is ok.. Along with other issues, including abortion. I see a trend of some "so called" Christians just believing in what seems to fit "them" instead of God. Sort of like they lost what God wanted them to beleive..


If I may make an observation...

I think that is what every Christian does. Cherry picking.


Yeah Cherry picking.. That's what I should have said.. I see it alot.. I wouldn't say "every" christian does. But I even feel there are areas I cherry pick too. But I'm sure there are some really good Christians that are loyal and ture to the word..


I'm really sorry to say that there are many many rules in the bible - old testament and new, that 99% of christians/catholics do not follow these days. So what I'm saying is that basically every single christian cherry picks, and that's what Birch is saying too. I bet there are rules in the bible you don't even know about, and certainly don't follow because they are silly. But a "true" christians, in your words, would follow all those rules... so do you consider no christian alive on this planet to be a true christian? I'd have to say the amish and menonites are far closer to true christians than even the most devout souther baptist.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied August 12th, 2007
Experienced User
I do. I would never get an abortion. But that is just it I follow it. Why is that many Christians do feel the need to force their views. Practice it yourself do not get an abortion.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied August 12th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
Eiri wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
Birch wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:

Ok.. Doesn't it seem like there are a lot of Christian making up their own views on things. I have notice that when some Christians beleive that Homosexually is ok then they seem to disregard what the bible says about it. And start saying it is ok.. Along with other issues, including abortion. I see a trend of some "so called" Christians just believing in what seems to fit "them" instead of God. Sort of like they lost what God wanted them to beleive..


If I may make an observation...

I think that is what every Christian does. Cherry picking.


Yeah Cherry picking.. That's what I should have said.. I see it alot.. I wouldn't say "every" christian does. But I even feel there are areas I cherry pick too. But I'm sure there are some really good Christians that are loyal and ture to the word..


I'm really sorry to say that there are many many rules in the bible - old testament and new, that 99% of christians/catholics do not follow these days. So what I'm saying is that basically every single christian cherry picks, and that's what Birch is saying too. I bet there are rules in the bible you don't even know about, and certainly don't follow because they are silly. But a "true" christians, in your words, would follow all those rules... so do you consider no christian alive on this planet to be a true christian? I'd have to say the amish and menonites are far closer to true christians than even the most devout souther baptist.


Rules, Well this will take you back to a past debate of the old testament and the new.. So we won't go there.. I don't think all Christian cherry pick. I think there are some people that are true Christians they knowledge what they should do as a Christian. I would never say ALL people! For any discussion.. Because not EVERYONE does whatever the discussion is about.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied August 12th, 2007
Experienced User
meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
marytartor wrote:
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless


I'm a christian too....i salute you for being open minded..

milletics, marytartor is a good example of being an open minded and non judgemental person.


Please don't that this is a wrong way, because I definitely don't mean it to be any more than just a question. But aren’t catholic pro-life. Does the Pope feel abortions are a choice?


I'm not catholic (though I used to be) but I'm a christian. Christians can have their own beliefs and opinions about issue regardless of what the majority of christians think. Being a Christian means believing in God and his teachings of helping and serving others which does not and will not include abortion, birth control and being pro-life or pro-choice.


Ok.. Doesn't it seem like there are a lot of Christian making up their own views on things. I have notice that when some Christians beleive that Homosexually is ok then they seem to disregard what the bible says about it. And start saying it is ok.. Along with other issues, including abortion. I see a trend of some "so called" Christians just believing in what seems to fit "them" instead of God. Sort of like they lost what God wanted them to beleive..


First off, I wanted to say that the bible doesn't say anything about abortion at all. Second, I think being pro-choice is more virtuous than being pro-life.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied August 12th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
haliparot wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
marytartor wrote:
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless


I'm a christian too....i salute you for being open minded..

milletics, marytartor is a good example of being an open minded and non judgemental person.


Please don't that this is a wrong way, because I definitely don't mean it to be any more than just a question. But aren’t catholic pro-life. Does the Pope feel abortions are a choice?


I'm not catholic (though I used to be) but I'm a christian. Christians can have their own beliefs and opinions about issue regardless of what the majority of christians think. Being a Christian means believing in God and his teachings of helping and serving others which does not and will not include abortion, birth control and being pro-life or pro-choice.


Ok.. Doesn't it seem like there are a lot of Christian making up their own views on things. I have notice that when some Christians beleive that Homosexually is ok then they seem to disregard what the bible says about it. And start saying it is ok.. Along with other issues, including abortion. I see a trend of some "so called" Christians just believing in what seems to fit "them" instead of God. Sort of like they lost what God wanted them to beleive..


First off, I wanted to say that the bible doesn't say anything about abortion at all. Second, I think being pro-choice is more virtuous than being pro-life.

So are you saying that you feel God would think it is ok?
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied August 12th, 2007
Experienced User
meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
marytartor wrote:
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless


I'm a christian too....i salute you for being open minded..

milletics, marytartor is a good example of being an open minded and non judgemental person.


Please don't that this is a wrong way, because I definitely don't mean it to be any more than just a question. But aren’t catholic pro-life. Does the Pope feel abortions are a choice?


I'm not catholic (though I used to be) but I'm a christian. Christians can have their own beliefs and opinions about issue regardless of what the majority of christians think. Being a Christian means believing in God and his teachings of helping and serving others which does not and will not include abortion, birth control and being pro-life or pro-choice.


Ok.. Doesn't it seem like there are a lot of Christian making up their own views on things. I have notice that when some Christians beleive that Homosexually is ok then they seem to disregard what the bible says about it. And start saying it is ok.. Along with other issues, including abortion. I see a trend of some "so called" Christians just believing in what seems to fit "them" instead of God. Sort of like they lost what God wanted them to beleive..


First off, I wanted to say that the bible doesn't say anything about abortion at all. Second, I think being pro-choice is more virtuous than being pro-life.

So are you saying that you feel God would think it is ok?



YES
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied August 12th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
I too feel that God would be perfectly fine with someone being personally pro-life, pro-choice for everyone else. It means YOU are following his way and living your life in his eyes. It also means you, just like God, are giving everyone else the chance to live their lives as they choose. God gives you the freedom to make your own choices, and you should give everyone around you the freedom to make their own choices.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 1st, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
Re: Pro-abortions Arguments Vs. the Facts.
milletics wrote:
MYTHS ABOUT ABORTION



Myth 1. It's "my body".
Busted 1. No it's not. It is a foundational genetic fact that your body has your DNA, your fetus' DNA is different.

Myth 2. The fetus is a parasite.
Busted 2. A parasite, by biological definition, must be a different species. No thinking person would consider apples as parasites of an apple tree. (However a worm in the apple is indeed a parasite). The biological defintion of parasite can be found at http://www.thefreedictionary.com/parasit.. . . Some committed abortion supporters cling to the etymological definition of "one who is sustained by another without benefit to the host". Taken in that sense, a 6 month old baby is as much of a parasite as a fetus. Only the most despicable monsters in world history killed the very young.

Myth 3. You can't legislate women from getting abortions by making abortions illegal.
Busted 3. Driving while intoxicated is also illegal, but thousands of people are killed by drunk drivers every year - only an imbecile would suggest that we legalize driving drunk because people "will do it anyhow".

Myth 4. You can't tell a person what to do with their body.
Busted 4. Wrong. There are many laws regarding public health and decency (Ex. you can't ride the city bus while in the nude.)

Myth 5. Fetuses aren't human.
Busted 5. 46 human chromosomes couldn't possibly be anything else. Tyrants and slavers throughout history always rationalized their crimes by denying the humanity of their victims. Radical supporters of abortion point out that on rare occasions terrible genetic diseases like Turner's Syndrome cause people to be born with 45, 47 or 48 chromosomes and that these people are "not human". While these genetic diseases have pronounced physical and mental manifestations, they do not change the species of the affected person.

Myth 6. The fetus cannot survive on its own.
Busted 6. Neither can infants - a six month old infant would quickly die left to its own abilities. Again, only history's worst monsters killed infants.


Myth 7. Many Christians get abortions.
Busted 7. Many Christians owned slaves - didn't make it right.

Myth 8. Making abortion illegal would force women who were raped or pregnant through incest or whose health was threatened to give birth.
Busted 8. Before Roe v Wade many states allowed for court ordered abortions for this very specific set of circumstances. A system for quick and condfidential judicial review for terminating these troubled pregancies would ensure the taking of human life has its day in court.

Myth 9. Human eggs and sperm are alive. Menstration and masturbation are the same as abortion.
Busted 9. So are the cells of the lining of our mouth - but like the egg or sperm, they independently could never be the start of a new human being.

Myth 10. The fetus isn't human because it isn't sentient.
Busted 10. Neither are people who are unconscious, and no one would suggest killing a person because they are unconscious is legal.

Myth 11. If you don't like abortions, don't have one!
Busted 11. If you don't like slavery, don't own one! Didn't work in 1865 - the abortion version won't work today.

Myth 12. If abortion is made illegal, dangerous "back alley" abortions will thrive.
Busted 12. The availability and efficacy of modern contraceptives can make unwanted pregnancies as likely as winning the lottery.

Myth 13. You can't support the death penalty and be pro-life.
Busted 13. Any unborn person convicted of a capital crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law


Here is an interesting thought experiment:

For any of you who agree with this post, if you found out that every single point made by this poster was, in fact, wrong, would you suddenly become pro-choice?
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 1st, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
marytartor wrote:
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless


I'm a christian too....i salute you for being open minded..

milletics, marytartor is a good example of being an open minded and non judgemental person.


Please don't that this is a wrong way, because I definitely don't mean it to be any more than just a question. But aren’t catholic pro-life. Does the Pope feel abortions are a choice?

The cathlolic religion also does not believe in the use of birth control - do you really think every young catholic woman or man has never used a condom/birrth control pill?

Oh that's right, they're ALL waiting for marriage so they can have as many children as they can have in their lifetime Rolling Eyes
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 1st, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
According to one of their own Bishops, 96% of Catholics practice or have practiced birth control.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied September 1st, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
futureshock wrote:
According to one of their own Bishops, 96% of Catholics practice or have practiced birth control.


Correct. I'm catholic and I sure use birth control. The Pope don't like it, but we catholics for sure use it.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 1st, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
nightangel73 wrote:
futureshock wrote:
According to one of their own Bishops, 96% of Catholics practice or have practiced birth control.


Correct. I'm catholic and I sure use birth control. The Pope don't like it, but we catholics for sure use it.

Yup, I'm engaged to a catholic and I'm sure not having lots of kids Laughing
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 2nd, 2007
Especially eHealthy
I had a female friend who was catholic. She had to go on birth control to regulate her periods, which cam 2-3 times a month and were just ridiculous. I believe she discussed this with a priest or someone, I'm not sure. It ended up with her being excomminucated because of the birth control.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied September 2nd, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
Eiri wrote:
I had a female friend who was catholic. She had to go on birth control to regulate her periods, which cam 2-3 times a month and were just ridiculous. I believe she discussed this with a priest or someone, I'm not sure. It ended up with her being excomminucated because of the birth control.


I have never known of someone excummicated for that reason but then I have never known anybody so idiott to dare to say a priest such things. So if you are idiott then you have to face the consequences. Imagine if catholics were excummunicated for using birth control the church will have nobody as 96% of catholics use them Laughing
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 2nd, 2007
Experienced User
Birth Control under catholic law is wrong. Most churches make exceptions for medical reasons such as mine. But most catholics lie and do not tell the church because they will be exiled from the church. Don't be so rude nightangel...
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied September 2nd, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 2nd, 2007
Especially eHealthy
Seriously NightAngel. Being Catholic was very important to this girl, so that's why she was honest with them. Instead of lying. Which is a sin.

Razz
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 2nd, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
marytartor wrote:
Birth Control under catholic law is wrong. Most churches make exceptions for medical reasons such as mine. But most catholics lie and do not tell the church because they will be exiled from the church. Don't be so rude nightangel...


I'd be interested to know more about this if you feel comfortable talking about it. I was under the obviously wrong impression that the Church made no exceptions, and would rather have a husband and wife be celibate than use bc.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 3rd, 2007
Active User, very eHealthy
"Ok.. Doesn't it seem like there are a lot of Christian making up their own views on things. I have notice that when some Christians beleive that Homosexually is ok then they seem to disregard what the bible says about it. And start saying it is ok.. Along with other issues, including abortion. I see a trend of some "so called" Christians just believing in what seems to fit "them" instead of God. Sort of like they lost what God wanted them to beleive.. "

That is exactly the problem with protestant theology. The Catholic Church has doctrine that goes back to the apostles, these can not be changed and dispite the link accusing the church of changing opinion on abortion it has always seen abortion as killing human life. If we go back to one of the very earliest catechisms that wrote by the apostles and called "the didache" it states clearly that we should not kill by procuring abortion.

The Catholic Church can not change on many issues and is faithful to the apostolic faith.

"I have never known of someone excummicated for that reason"

I have been excumunicated for that very reason, as have you nightangel73. You dont need a letter off the pope or your bishop or even your priest to be excommunicated, to simply use contraception is to excommunicate yourself. Of course excommunication can be easily over turned by repentance and sacramental confession.
|
Did you find this post helpful?