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Pro-abortions Arguments Vs. the Facts. (Page 2)


July 26th, 2007
Experienced User
calling me brainwashed. Thats a good one. I nearly peed myself. please stop.

me thinks u are sorely mistaken. For it is you. You are blindly following the world and believing what any erronous human being assumes and spectulates. I suppose at one point you woulda believed the world was flat. (afterall...scientists said it was sooo it was)
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replied July 26th, 2007
Experienced User
and yes you are pro-abortion. You can argue that all day but the fact is you are.
You are either for it or against it.
You may say "i believe women should be able to choose"
Well duh. Choose what? Abortion!.
You are pro-abortion.
I am pro Life.
I value human life.
You clearly dont.
I am sorry you cant see truth. Crying or Very sad
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replied July 26th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
I believe a woman should be able to chose:
Birth/keep
Birth/adoption
Abortion.

All three are options. I believe she is smart enough to know how to deal with her body and take responsibility for what she has done. I trust her to know what is best for her at the time.

I do NOT assume she's going to regret the decision. I do NOT assume she is too stupid to know what an embryo is or what it looks like. I do NOT assume she needs religious advice shoved in her face to make her change her mind.
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replied July 26th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
milletics wrote:
and yes you are pro-abortion. You can argue that all day but the fact is you are.
You are either for it or against it.
You may say "i believe women should be able to choose"
Well duh. Choose what? Abortion!.
You are pro-abortion.
I am pro Life.
I value human life.
You clearly dont.
I am sorry you cant see truth. Crying or Very sad


Pro life promotes life only.

Pro choice promotes choice only.

Pro abortion promotes abortion only.

It can't get any simpler.
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replied July 28th, 2007
i just have one question.

What right does ANYBODY have to tell another human what to do with her body? I am pro-choice ( go ahead and flame me). I look at it this way. it is MY body that the fetus is dependant on. It is MY body that has to go through labor/delivery.

I do believe the mother has the right to make the choice that best fits her. I believed for years that i would never have an abortion. that there was no reason at all for a mother to abort. guess what. I changed my mind because of my personal experiences.

I just recently had an abortion. my reasons were the following.
1. i had my tubes tied in april for medical reasons.
2. in june i had an appendectomy. anstestia, radition dye for a CAT scan, morphine, xrays, etc...
3. 2 weeks after the surgery i found out i was 6 weeks pregnant. yes they did a pregnancy test. 3 of them to be exact all negative before the surgery.
4. because of other medical problems my doctor informed me that i would not carry. he gave me a month to 2 months before i miscarried and the longer i was pregnant the more i was putting MY life in danger.
5. i spent 4 plus hours in the ER 2 diferent times because of a threatened miscarriage.
6.the last check up i had, i was informed that the baby was in distress. if i continued with the pregnancy it would be stillborn and it could of killed me at the same time. i also have a 13 year old that i am reponsible for so i had to take that into consideration also.


I had the right to choose what was best for me. just as everybody else does.
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replied August 5th, 2007
Active User, very eHealthy
I fail to see the connections between any of the comparisons you made - how is banning abortions like being nude in public? Do you even read what you post?

You claim to value human life...but the better question would be what human life is it exactly that you value? Do you value the lives of fetuses - creatures who cannot see, breathe, or function without being attached to the mother's body, or do you value the lives of the living, breathing sentient beings? Are you saying that, if a relative or friend of yours had a pregnancy that was a threat to her life, you would sooner convince her to keep the fetus in the face of certain death on her part as opposed to encouraging her to take necessary action to end the risk and consider alternative options (like adoption, foster parenting, etc.)? Since you're a pro-liar, you'd probably say, "Oh save the baybeeee, who cares about the mother? She's just a woman, so she's worthless and disposable".

The facts are that, no matter what, abortions will always take place, and women will always have reasons for getting them. I would much rather see women be able to get the procedure done safely and effectively than carrying a pregnancy to term, only to neglect, abuse or kill the child(ren) when they're born, abandon the child in a dumpster, or seek back-alley/coat hanger abortions or commit suicide.

Admit it - you, like other pro-lifers, just want to see women put in their place, and possibly have them die as the result.
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replied August 5th, 2007
Experienced User
Re: Pro-abortions Arguments Vs. the Facts.
milletics wrote:
MYTHS ABOUT ABORTION



Myth 1. It's "my body".
Busted 1. No it's not. It is a foundational genetic fact that your body has your DNA, your fetus' DNA is different.

Myth 2. The fetus is a parasite.
Busted 2. A parasite, by biological definition, must be a different species. No thinking person would consider apples as parasites of an apple tree. (However a worm in the apple is indeed a parasite). The biological defintion of parasite can be found at http://www.thefreedictionary.com/parasit.. . . Some committed abortion supporters cling to the etymological definition of "one who is sustained by another without benefit to the host". Taken in that sense, a 6 month old baby is as much of a parasite as a fetus. Only the most despicable monsters in world history killed the very young.

Myth 3. You can't legislate women from getting abortions by making abortions illegal.
Busted 3. Driving while intoxicated is also illegal, but thousands of people are killed by drunk drivers every year - only an imbecile would suggest that we legalize driving drunk because people "will do it anyhow".

Myth 4. You can't tell a person what to do with their body.
Busted 4. Wrong. There are many laws regarding public health and decency (Ex. you can't ride the city bus while in the nude.)

Myth 5. Fetuses aren't human.
Busted 5. 46 human chromosomes couldn't possibly be anything else. Tyrants and slavers throughout history always rationalized their crimes by denying the humanity of their victims. Radical supporters of abortion point out that on rare occasions terrible genetic diseases like Turner's Syndrome cause people to be born with 45, 47 or 48 chromosomes and that these people are "not human". While these genetic diseases have pronounced physical and mental manifestations, they do not change the species of the affected person.

Myth 6. The fetus cannot survive on its own.
Busted 6. Neither can infants - a six month old infant would quickly die left to its own abilities. Again, only history's worst monsters killed infants.


Myth 7. Many Christians get abortions.
Busted 7. Many Christians owned slaves - didn't make it right.

Myth 8. Making abortion illegal would force women who were raped or pregnant through incest or whose health was threatened to give birth.
Busted 8. Before Roe v Wade many states allowed for court ordered abortions for this very specific set of circumstances. A system for quick and condfidential judicial review for terminating these troubled pregancies would ensure the taking of human life has its day in court.

Myth 9. Human eggs and sperm are alive. Menstration and masturbation are the same as abortion.
Busted 9. So are the cells of the lining of our mouth - but like the egg or sperm, they independently could never be the start of a new human being.

Myth 10. The fetus isn't human because it isn't sentient.
Busted 10. Neither are people who are unconscious, and no one would suggest killing a person because they are unconscious is legal.

Myth 11. If you don't like abortions, don't have one!
Busted 11. If you don't like slavery, don't own one! Didn't work in 1865 - the abortion version won't work today.

Myth 12. If abortion is made illegal, dangerous "back alley" abortions will thrive.
Busted 12. The availability and efficacy of modern contraceptives can make unwanted pregnancies as likely as winning the lottery.

Myth 13. You can't support the death penalty and be pro-life.
Busted 13. Any unborn person convicted of a capital crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law


My response

1. Indeed, I will take a stand that it IS my body. Nobody mentioned that ,it is my DNA because clearly it is not. However, pro-choicers say that "it is my body" because the mother is the one who will carry the fetus to its full term and not because she is claiming that it IS not a foreign entity.

2. I don't think anybody in the right mind especially the women in this forum will have an abortion simply because they think its a parasite. C'mmon are you even reading what you are typing. Your arguments are completely ridiculous.

3. Abortion is different from drunk driving for the reasons that drunk driving harms and poses threat to another LIVE person/(s). For a pro-choicer point of view, a fetus is not a PERSON.

4. You stated it inaccurately. It is not "you cannot tell the person what to do", instead it is "you cannot take the rights of women to choose"

5. A human being is not defined as "46 chromosome organism". A fetus indeed is not a person or a baby. It is a fetus. It is a POTENTIAL person. however during the first 6 months of pregnancy, the fetus is not viable which means it cannot be defined as a person. In the fields of philosophy, theology, and bioethics, the definition of a person exclude biological human entities (such as human embryos, human fetuses that lack major portions of the brain, or adult humans lacking higher brain functions).

6. A fetus before 24 months cannot survive on its own even if another person takes care of it. It would die spontaneouly w/o any chances of survival. A new born baby CAN survive even w/ minimal attention even from a stranger. New born babies are viable, fetuses are NOT.

7. Yes, many christians have, had, and will have abortions, and this argument has nothing to do with owning slaves. Indeed, this statement is very funny and dumb. If I am your english teacher in composition and critical thinking, I will flunk you. You can only make an anology when two subjects are related. The main argument about Christians having abortions is that, the act of abortion does not descriminate whether the woman seeking the procedure is christian or not. Which indicates that even though Christians push their pro-life beliefs on other people, their arguments are so ineffective that even their fellow co-christians don't follow them.

8. I don't believe your claim, the real fact is, before roe vs. wade, even rape victims can't have abortion because the lack of access.

9. Study biology. Yes, the cells in the lining of your mouth are not capable of fertilization because its not their purpose. However, the cells in the lining of your mouth undergoes cell multiplication and perform other living functions. Sperm and eggs are gametes and their main purpose is fertilization.

10. This is just stupid. A drunk person is no way similar to a fetus. Again, this is a question of viability.

11. Slavery is not the same as abortion. Pro-choicers believe that fetuses are not human hence do not deserve human rights.
However, slaves ARE alive human beings.

12. Again, get your facts straight! More than half of unintended pregnancy are caused by birth control failure. Which means most women who get pregnant unintentionnaly USE contraceptives.

13. How can an unborn fetus commit a crime? Is your brain working?
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replied August 5th, 2007
Experienced User
milletics wrote:
calling me brainwashed. Thats a good one. I nearly peed myself. please stop.

me thinks u are sorely mistaken. For it is you. You are blindly following the world and believing what any erronous human being assumes and spectulates. I suppose at one point you woulda believed the world was flat. (afterall...scientists said it was sooo it was)


Ow I think you would also believe that sun is the center of the universe. Since this heliocentric analogy was supported and even proclaimed by the Catholic church (which is absolutely false).
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replied August 5th, 2007
Experienced User
milletics wrote:
calling me brainwashed. Thats a good one. I nearly peed myself. please stop.

me thinks u are sorely mistaken. For it is you. You are blindly following the world and believing what any erronous human being assumes and spectulates. I suppose at one point you woulda believed the world was flat. (afterall...scientists said it was sooo it was)


I pity you so much. Pro-choicers are not following the world. It took a lot of guts, research, and maturity for me to decide to become pro choice. For a Christian with conservative parents, it is so much more easier to become a brainwashed pro-life like you are than become a pro-choice.

Indeed, I can attest to a fact that it is hard to open your mind to reality that smacks you in the face especially if you have the opposite view.
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replied August 5th, 2007
Religion/choice
ok, now that religion's been brought in, here's a few facts.
1.god killed everyone that was not on noah's ark. there had to have been at least one pregnant woman who was not on the ark.
2.incest was practiced in biblical times. gen.31-38 you people are sick.
3.jesus was allowed to be killed. god could've prevented it, but didn't.
4. more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause/belief in recorded history.
seems the religious people are pretty blood thirsty to me.
5. what i do with my own body is MY business not yours. if it doesn't violate any of your rights, mind your own business.
6. if you pro lifers were really concerned about this, there wouldn't be any orphanages, because you would adopt them all.
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replied August 12th, 2007
Experienced User
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless
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replied August 12th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
marytartor wrote:
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless


I thank you for your open-minded view on this, and the fact that you believe in the separation of church and state. I am very respectful of people who are pro-life for themselves but pro-choice for others. It shows a great deal of maturity and respect for others, which I view as true grace.
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replied August 12th, 2007
Experienced User
thank you
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replied August 12th, 2007
Experienced User
marytartor wrote:
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless


I'm a christian too....i salute you for being open minded..

milletics, marytartor is a good example of being an open minded and non judgemental person.
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replied August 12th, 2007
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haliparot wrote:
marytartor wrote:
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless


I'm a christian too....i salute you for being open minded..

milletics, marytartor is a good example of being an open minded and non judgemental person.


Please don't that this is a wrong way, because I definitely don't mean it to be any more than just a question. But aren’t catholic pro-life. Does the Pope feel abortions are a choice?
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replied August 12th, 2007
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meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
marytartor wrote:
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless


I'm a christian too....i salute you for being open minded..

milletics, marytartor is a good example of being an open minded and non judgemental person.


Please don't that this is a wrong way, because I definitely don't mean it to be any more than just a question. But aren’t catholic pro-life. Does the Pope feel abortions are a choice?


I'm not catholic (though I used to be) but I'm a christian. Christians can have their own beliefs and opinions about issue regardless of what the majority of christians think. Being a Christian means believing in God and his teachings of helping and serving others which does not and will not include abortion, birth control and being pro-life or pro-choice.
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replied August 12th, 2007
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haliparot wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
haliparot wrote:
marytartor wrote:
I am a catholic. I believe that it is a human life. I also acknowledge that not everyone shares my views on this subject. I also believe in seperation of church & State. Since when is it christians job/right to take over the moral authority of a nation? Not all people see my G-d which is fine. Someone in Nevada getting an abortion does not affect my life...it affects theirs.

God bless


I'm a christian too....i salute you for being open minded..

milletics, marytartor is a good example of being an open minded and non judgemental person.


Please don't that this is a wrong way, because I definitely don't mean it to be any more than just a question. But aren’t catholic pro-life. Does the Pope feel abortions are a choice?


I'm not catholic (though I used to be) but I'm a christian. Christians can have their own beliefs and opinions about issue regardless of what the majority of christians think. Being a Christian means believing in God and his teachings of helping and serving others which does not and will not include abortion, birth control and being pro-life or pro-choice.


Ok.. Doesn't it seem like there are a lot of Christian making up their own views on things. I have notice that when some Christians beleive that Homosexually is ok then they seem to disregard what the bible says about it. And start saying it is ok.. Along with other issues, including abortion. I see a trend of some "so called" Christians just believing in what seems to fit "them" instead of God. Sort of like they lost what God wanted them to beleive..
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replied August 12th, 2007
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meblonde01 wrote:

Ok.. Doesn't it seem like there are a lot of Christian making up their own views on things. I have notice that when some Christians beleive that Homosexually is ok then they seem to disregard what the bible says about it. And start saying it is ok.. Along with other issues, including abortion. I see a trend of some "so called" Christians just believing in what seems to fit "them" instead of God. Sort of like they lost what God wanted them to beleive..


If I may make an observation...

I think that is what every Christian does. Cherry picking. And I know it is hard to live as a Christian-it's dang near impossible, so it's easy to come up with excuses and re-interpretations...etc...

It's all a big farce, designed for failure.

But I digress...
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replied August 12th, 2007
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Birch wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:

Ok.. Doesn't it seem like there are a lot of Christian making up their own views on things. I have notice that when some Christians beleive that Homosexually is ok then they seem to disregard what the bible says about it. And start saying it is ok.. Along with other issues, including abortion. I see a trend of some "so called" Christians just believing in what seems to fit "them" instead of God. Sort of like they lost what God wanted them to beleive..


If I may make an observation...

I think that is what every Christian does. Cherry picking.


Yeah Cherry picking.. That's what I should have said.. I see it alot.. I wouldn't say "every" christian does. But I even feel there are areas I cherry pick too. But I'm sure there are some really good Christians that are loyal and ture to the word..
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replied August 12th, 2007
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Yes I do consider myself pro-choice. And yes the pope says that pro-life is the only way. But I also acknowledge that not everyone follows my religion or believes in my G-d. I live a pro-life existence, but I do not think I have the right to force my views on an entire nation. The point of the government is to protect the people's bodies, to keep their body from coming to harm. It is not George Bush's or any other politician's job to save the souls of a nation.

Also I cannot emphasize this more what affect does it have on you? If some one Washington killed a fetus.
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