Medical Questions > Conditions and Diseases > HIV and AIDS Forum

Origin,where Is the Truth Buried. (Page 1)

This is yet another misleading piece found on the net....."the green monkey theory provided the first explanation of the origin of aids. It implied that the virus originated from green monkeys in africa and was later passed on to the local population either through acts of bestiality or through consuming them as food. In this way aids was supposed to have spread in africa and then from africa to the whole world. However, on june 2nd 1988, the los angeles times published an article refuting the idea that the human aids virus originated from green monkeys. It uncovered evidence that the dna composition of aids was totally inconsistent with that of green monkeys. The monkey theory was proven wrong by researchers as far back as 1988, but most aids educators continued to promote it to the public until recently!!




The chimpanzee theory:

were chimpanzees the source of aids?




In a media blitz in 1999, the chimpanzee "out of africa" theory replaced the green monkey theory, and the chimp origin of aids became- to a great extent- accepted by the scientific community. In february 1999, it was announced that a group of researchers from the university of alabama had studied frozen tissue from a chimpanzee and found that the simian virus it carried (sivcpz) was almost identical to hiv-1. The chimpanzee came from a sub-group of chimpanzees known as pan troglodytes, which were once common in west-central africa. Thus, many scientists nowadays believe that the disease crossed species from chimpanzees to humans (bbc news). However, scientists are divided on how this might have happened.




In his famous book, the river: a journey back to the source of hiv and aids, ed hooper argues that chimpanzees were used in vaccine development and produced evidence that this triggered the aids epidemic in humans. He believes that this happened deliberately or accidentally as a result of an experiment in 1957 where the kidneys of infected chimps were used to develop and manufacture polio vaccines (the atlantic). While other scientists agree that hiv was transmitted from chimpanzees to humans, they reject the hypothesis that this might have happened as a result of an experiment. After thorough investigations, those scientists found that chimp kidneys were never used to make polio vaccines and the vaccines were never contaminated with either the aids virus or anything resembling hiv-1." ....(me)....I can assure you chimps were used in polio vaccines in the congo 1957.I have a public tape(cbc) ,where the people working there ,admitted that chimps of all sort were brought to the camp.The call was put out ,that they needed chimps ,and they came from far and wide along the river,up to a hundred miles away,they were paid of course(hunters).I have pictures of pan troglyites in the camp itself.Chat actually stands for chipanzee attenuation...So again the truth is buried,but one day it will all come out.


Last edited by stef46 on December 12th, 2006 07:22 PM; edited 3 times in total
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replied December 7th, 2006
Experienced User
Curtis explains that the vaccine in question ,called chat,was developed by hillary koprowski and his colleagues at the wistar institute in philadelphia,and that between 1957 and 1960 it was fed to more than three hundred thousand africans in the countries now known as the congo,rwanda and burundi,the very area now thought to bethe hearth,or source,of the epidemic of hiv-1...Curtis points out that in those early days of tissue culture technique,virologists were loath to cultivate vaccines in human cells ,for fear of spreading cancer causing agents,but were slow to realize the dangers of introducing to humans,a vaccine grown in monkey kidneys..Some of the obviously dangerous simian viruses,like the herpes b virus discovered by sabin,was successfully excluded from these vaccines.,but others were not,most notably sv40...Most tellingly ,curtis reveals that there is real uncertainty about which species of monkey provided the kidneys in which chat was manufactured.He interviews hillary koprowski,who initially insists it must have been the african green monkey,but later says,"i have a suspician the virus was grown in the rhesus monkeyat the original beginning,now when we switched to green monkeys,i have no idea"..Koprowski explains that the relevant records no longer exist.(cover up)wistar used to use kidneys that were already excised,which means,they could have come from any species...Excerpts "the river" by edward hooper.
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replied December 7th, 2006
Experienced User
Altough every organism has its own unique genetic structure,its made up of just four dna nucleotides (adenine,thymine,cytosine and guanine-a,t,c and g),which are the basic building blocks of life.(the only exceptions are rna viruses,in which uracil replaces thymine).The structure of the organism is determined by the order in which those nucleotides are joined together-its dna sequence.Given a sample of that organism,the molecular biologist should be able to determine its sequence by methods such as pcr.( a molecular biology technique [1] for enzymatically replicating dna without using a living organism),the phylogenetic analaysis of such sequences is the precise method of determaning how closely different organisms are related.In the broadest terms,however,if the sequence of two organisms are very similar,then we can be confident they are closley related-that one has evolved from the other,or that both have evolved from a common ancestor.The relationship between different organisms,humans,for instance,or pigs,or viruses-can be readily depicted on phylogenetic trees,which look very much like family trees..The hiv database and analysis project was set up at los alamos by the nih in 1985,shortley after the first dna sequence of the hiv genome,(total complement of genetic material)-which revealed it to be a single molecule,9,700 nucleotides in length-had been prepared.Gerry myers's primary task,with the assistance of kersti macinnes and later bette korber,was to launch an "investigation into the molecular facts pertinent to the origin of hiv...The database team began with a computer search of all known geneticsequences stored in international databases,to compare these with the known sequences of hiv,and they repeated the search in 1986 and 1988.Their conclusion was that hiv had not arisen through the recombination of any viruses, either known or unknown,"either naturaly or through human agency".What this established was that hiv was almost certainly not the result of a genetic engineering experiment..Excerpts from the river by edward hooper...I would like to add that this does not rule out adoption,at a later date,of a naturaly occuring virus.
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replied December 8th, 2006
Experienced User
The world health organization declared in writing they were not connected to the chat program...Nowadays it is sometimes forgotten that it was not until after the second world war that polio become quite suddenly,the most feared of all western diseases,occupying the position hiv does today...The enterprise of controlling polio became a race ,a scramble ,where risks were taken.Some scientists would have nothing to do with monkey kidneys ,as their instincts told them it was too risky..Koprowskis first polio vaccine was developed over the last four years of the forties,.It consisted of a suspension of polio-infected mouse brain,which was then attenuated by several passages of cotton rats.Apart from humans the only animal susceptible to poliovirus by the oral route is the chimpanzee,without apparent ill affect.He named the vaccine tn..During 1955,another important issue cameto a head,-that of the best substrate-or species of tissue culture-in which to manufacture polio vaccines.That spring the indian governemt temporarily bannend the export of rhesus macaques.This monkey had become the most popular for ipv production and testing.Several researchers investigated, obtaining monkey supplies from the philippines and africa.Mid 1955 koprowski was working with british virologist george di ck and they started a small test in northern ireland.To begin with all looked rosy.However di ck began to notice discrepancies between his results and those in koprowskis prior report on the strains.,most notably of type sm vaccine to spread from vaccinee to nonvaccinee .,and of tn to become far more virulent after passing through the gut.These were not the characteristics of a safe vaccine and when di ck announced his results in january 1957,he suggested that neither vaccine was suitable for large scale human trials.,or for any clinical trials.This was a serious blow to koprowski's credibility and he left lederle and took over the directorship of wistar institue in philadelphia
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replied December 8th, 2006
Experienced User
Here he developed a new type1 strain,chat,derived from the fourth human passage of the old sm strain,and a type 3 strain known as fox,both of which were produced in monkey kidneys.He was racing ,salk and sabin for a vaccine to give to the world.The starting flag had been dropped by an expert committee convened by the world health organization in july 1957,which advised,under certain specific circumstances,large scale field trials could be mounted of plaque-purified live polio vaccines that had already be proven safe in monkey tests and small scale clinical trials.These circumstances including where an epidemic was impending or underway.In collaboration with expatriate doctors in the belgian congo,he set up a chimpanzee colony,just outside stanlyville.The caretakers of this colony were inoculated themselves,when these went smoothly,koprowski managed to presude the medical director of the colony,to approve large scale vaccination trials.Early in 1958 he fed his chat vaccine to the populations of four congolese villages that had experienced epidemic outbreaks of polio.,then staged the large field trials in the ruzzi valley...Edward hooper...At this point I would like to add,no hiv tissue exists before 1959.,and was found in the congo.
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replied December 8th, 2006
Experienced User
Koprowskis claim that the vaccinations he conducted in the congo and ruanda-urundi in early 1958 had been recommended by the world health organization expert committee was later undermined by the secetary of that committee,who wrote to the british medical journal to explain that,"contary to some reports the test in the belgian congo was not supported by w.H.O...By august however koprowski had embarked on a much more carefully monitored trial in leopoldville,the congolise capital which was aimed at all children bellow the age of five..Eh..Siv or simian immune virus,that is in their kidney tissue, would mutate to hiv in children who have no established immune system.The first dead tissue of hiv was found in leopoldville 1959.!
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replied December 8th, 2006
Experienced User
Western scientists and medical magazines already know this..,but they dont want you to know.They feel you would lose confidence in vaccination programs.They dont want to admit that a pole that was natrulized in america brought this or unlocked this, in africa..It seems the w.H.O weaseled their way out of responsibility..I would have a lot more respect for modern medicine and vaccination programs if they came clean and admitted the truth..One man made a mistake,admit it,and we will restore faith in the medical world,lie and we will have none..Instead they lie.,cover up and disrespect all of us with the cover up.We may have to wait for african scientists to make this origin fact ,official,in the mean time you know what happenend and should research every innoculation you get as we have been treated like guinea pigs and lied too.
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replied December 8th, 2006
Experienced User
Later on we shall examine koprowskis responce to curtis's piece in the rolling stone magazine.Incredibily every point he makes is false.In the meantime have a gander here.Http://www.Uow.Edu.Au/arts/sts/bmarti n/dissent/documents/aids/
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replied December 9th, 2006
Experienced User
Lindi camp become functional in 1956.It was in an isolated spot,some ten miles west of stanlyville (now kisangani) on the north bank of the congo river.Just before the camp was the lindi tributary,which had to be crossed by hand operated ferry.The chimps were provided by a french hunter,who,with his team of fifteen congalise helpers,went out into the forest to catch the animals.To begin with ninane said,they only had forty chimps,housed in cages in two large hangers,but before long the operation was to get much,much bigger.At the height of the experiments,he had been in charge of about 140 chimps,which,he told me,probably made it the largest chimpanzee colony the world has ever seen.
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replied December 9th, 2006
Experienced User
These early cases of high seroprevalence were all in those places where chat vaccine had been fedin the ruzizi/bujumbura/lake tanganyika field trial in early 1958.Inareas where the vaccine was not fed,hiv prevalence was markedly lower.Indeed,the only two positive sera from outside the vaccinated zoneboth came from places close to the main road running from bujumbura through the mountains,toward rwanda and uganda.This tentavily suggested that hiv had arrived first in the western lowland strip of burundi,which included bujumbura,that it subsequently diffused northward towards rwanda,and that it was a long time before it spread to eastern burundi...Talking with jennifer alexander..We talked about the rumor that their had been a polio vaccine trial conducted by the pasteur institute in french west africa,she suspected senegal,at around the same time koprowski's in the congo,and that it had employed vaccines made in the kidneys of the local monkeys.We talked of the differing abilities of simian viruses such as siv,simian virus number 40,herpes b,and marburg to grow and prosper in monkey kidney culture..Later I showed her the only precise information that koprowski had published about how he had made chat vaccine.On the most essential details ,like the species of monkey used,and the number of passages used to produce the different vaccine pools,it simply wasent clear...Eh...Its strange the way koprowski behaved.He also omitted areas he vaccinated from reports.Prersumably because he new something was going to go wrong.Otherwise his records would have been complete,as every other scientists are.
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replied December 9th, 2006
Experienced User
Http://www.Youtube.Http://www.Youtube.Com/ watch?V=csh5kkiow-g com/watch?V=gdvdzsdl9kk http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=g046dw2onhi http://www.Http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V= oj-u7tfhhnk youtube.Com/watch?V=floghttp://www.Youtube .Com/watch?V=8ft90dsz1ukgjyvofq http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=bwavxfcvrv4 I do apoligise for preveous links that didnt work,i hope these do...Another way is to get google up,type in "google videos" and on that page type in "dark continent" they will then display in 6 parts.This documentary was never been on american tv,proof that they nolonger freepress but merely a conglomatate who play with the us gov,"scratch my back and i'll scratch yours.This documentary is imortant to humanity and debate and we live in scary times of totaliterianism where debate has died..When the truth is suppressed ,then injustice will follow,when the truth is set free,justice will follow.Truth is our spiritial light and we have to keep it burning....I just tried and these links dont work either.It is part of the suppression.Try the manual route,of google.On youtube the title is africa in capitals,africa2 and so forth.Tags are facts,health animals people documentary.My youtube name is betfairgreek2,please try and watch it.
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replied December 9th, 2006
Experienced User
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replied December 10th, 2006
Experienced User
Http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=gdvdzsdl9kk curtis highlights the growing confusion about which monkeys koprowski used for his opv's,pointing out at different times koprowski claimed that he was using african green monkeys,rhesus macaques, monkeys from the philippines,and ready to use kidneys from a supplier.(its safe to say that every monkey captured that didnt get sick would have their kidneys used,they were not pets,and each one represented considerable investment)curtis then reveals that a spokesman forlederle laboraties,which since the mid seventies has been the sole us manufacturer of opv's informed him that since 1985 lerderle had "sometimesfound simian immune virus in the early stages of its vaccine production process",but the virus had of course been eliminated when found..."what about vaccine produced and administered before 1985.",curtis had inquired,to which the spokesman replied that,"if you dont know somethings there,you cant test for it".
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replied December 10th, 2006
Experienced User
If bushmeat was a viable method of transmission ,it would have happenend centuries ago.It didnt......Cecil fox makes two especially pertinent contributions to the debate on polio vaccine manufacture.The first is that foamy viruses,or spumaviruses(which like the siv and hiv,constitute a subfamily of retro viruses),"are sometimes referred to as the crabgrass of polio vaccine manufacture".He stresses that while such vaccines have been free of cultivable foamy viruses for many years,it is not known what retroviruses were present in early vaccine preparations.(the point is well made,for a perusal of the literature reveals that the ubiquitous foamy viruses are constantly being mentioned.,as presumably harmless contaminants of tissue cultures.,throughout the fifties and early sixties.His second point is even more compelling.He says that there is no good evidence to suggest that lentiviruses like the siv's will infect kidney cell cultures,but that "there is abundant evidence that either hiv or siv can grow in culturedlymphocytes or macrophages."these are white blood cells and scavenger cells,which are likely to have been present in some of the early vaccine tissue cultures.
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replied December 10th, 2006
Experienced User
The following are among the mistakes and contentious statements that feature in koprowski's letter to science..1.Koprowski claims that he and tom norton succeeded in attenuating the three types of polio virus between 1949 and 1952,but papers published by himself and others in the fifties show that his first successful attenuation of a type 3 poliovirus (fox) did not occur until 1956...2 koprowski claims that the ruzizi valley,where the bulk of the 1958 vaccinations occurred,lies in the northwest of burundi,and not in the kivu province of the congo.In fact,it forms the border between the two countries and the ruzizi vaccinations were divided almost equally between the two,with a small area of southwest rwanda also included.This is an extraodinary error,first because he seems not to know the location of this,the first mass trial of oral polio vaccine in the world,and one which involved his own vaccine,and second,because it is a fact that is so easy to check...3. He quotes hiv-prevalence figures of 0.7 percent for rural burundi and 1.3 percent for rural rwanda.These figures are correctly quoted ,but are hardly representative.Hiv prevalances in the early eighties for certain of the rural districts of burundi that had been involved in the 1958 chat trials were more than twelve times higher,as I was later to discover..4..Koprowski concedes that the urban areas of rwanda and brundi are heavily infected with hiv,with prevalences rising as high as 25 percent to 30 percent,but says the vaccine fed in ruzizi valley cannot be responsible,since the area is rural and hiv appears to have spread from urban to rural parts of africa,rather than vice versa.This ignores the fact that the spring 1958 campaign involved the feeding of chat in a major town(bujumbura) as well as in rural areas.If indeed there was siv contamination of some batches of chat,then one would expect to find individuals and occasional small clusters with hiv infection and aids in the more sexually conservative countryside but,much more strikingly,the early emergence of heavy hiv infection and large numbers of aids cases in local towns.This is exactly what one finds.By 1986,five towns in rwanda had adult hiv-prevalence figures of between 16 percent and 31 percent,as did one (bujumbura) in burundi.
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replied December 10th, 2006
Experienced User
If you have any trouble viewing the documentary ,use mozzila-firefox. Http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=floggjyvofq
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replied December 10th, 2006
Experienced User
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replied December 10th, 2006
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replied December 10th, 2006
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Https://www.Google.Com/video/upload/status ?Rf=1&hl=en-ca that link will work for mozzila users,i'm not sure about windows browser,but its in "google video", under "dark continent" and in sequence numbered 1 to 6.
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replied December 12th, 2006
Experienced User
5].He claims that the same pool of vaccine was used in leopoldville and in poland.Strictly speaking this is true,but the information is far from complete.Seventy-six thousand children from newborns to age five were fed pool 13 of chat in leopoldville (now kinshasa) where as fewer than three thousand children were fed this same pool in poland.The vast majority of vaccinations of chat in poland ( more than seven million)were with a different pool-18......6].He writes,"inasmuch as the prevalence of aids in kinshasa today is 25 to 30% and poland has the lowest incidence of aids in europe,one would have to undertake super-speculative acrobatics to incriminate the vaccine as the source of aids in africa."koprowski means the prevalence of hiv,not aids.Furthermore,mosts reports from 1992 indicated that hiv prevalence among kinshasa adults was below 10 percent ,not 25 to 30 percent....7] "even the supposedly early cases of aids in africa were clinically diagnosed several thousand kilometers away from the kivu reason".In fact,the putative early cases to which he refers in the referenced article are from kinshasa,bujumbura,and from towns in shaba.His vaccines were used in the first two cities,and the towns in shaba are actually less than a thousand(not several thousand) kilometers from kivu and the ruzizi valley.In fact,as I was later to discover,the correlations between the early putative aids cases mentioned and vaccinations with chat were far closer than this suggests...8]in a key passage,koprowski unequivocally states that after his original type2 vaccine,called tn,which was made in cotton rat brain,"all other batches were produced in kidney tissue obtained from rheas monkeys(maccaca mulatta) captured either in india or the philippines."not only does this certainly conflict with his earlier uncertainty when speaking to curtis,but even this statement is erroneous.Macaca mulatta (the rhesus macaque) does indeed come from india,but the species from the philippines used for vaccine production is the cynomolgus macaque,macaca cynomolgus.
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