Medical Questions > Debate Forums > Abortion Debate Forum

the Warring Factions (Page 1)

There seem to be four 'camps' here rather than two.



There is pro-choice. They support the right of a woman to make her own decision as to how to proceed with an unwanted pregnancy. A pro-choicer will support the woman's choice, be it to abort or to go to term.



There is pro-life. They believe everyone has a right to life, even the unborn.



Then there are the pro-aborts. They claim to be pro-choice but actually are not supportive of a woman's choice, unless it is to abort.



Finally, there are the pro-foetus group. Often referred to as 'anti-women'. They do not agree with abortion under any circumstances , including rape or severe medical problems with the baby and/or mother. They favour the unborn over the born.



Please correct me if i've got the wrong end of the proverbial!
Did you find this post helpful?
|

User Profile
replied September 23rd, 2006
Active User, very eHealthy
You are soooooo right but expect to be jumped om Wink
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 23rd, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
*purest dons battle armour and grits her teeth*

no seriously, i'm not trying to be facetious, it's just my observation on things.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied September 23rd, 2006
Active User, very eHealthy
Forward and onward we descend into battle Laughing Laughing
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 23rd, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
Lol Laughing
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 23rd, 2006
Especially eHealthy
I happen to agree. Most people ignore pro-abortion and pro-fetus, and I normally simply call them the extremists of pro-choice and pro-life, and i've aknowledged that fact several times in the past.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 23rd, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
eiri wrote:
i've aknowledged that fact several times in the past.


.Hee hee .Eiri, well I am obviously a bit slower off the mark than you! Laughing
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied September 23rd, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
So true purest there are 4 groups!!!!!!

Eiri they are extremists, they are the ones who will not accept anything unless done there way si in the end they are .A.N.T.I.R.I.G.H.T.S as well
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 24th, 2006
Especially eHealthy
I believe that both extremists are against full rights. Pro-aborts don't want any mother having a child unless she's totally perfectly capable of caring for it, and they also want abortions without choice for all teens, plus, abortions for those who have too many babies; all of which are wrong.

It is also wrong to deny a woman an abortion for any reason. You can't force her to abort and you can't force her to keep, that's the final truth.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 24th, 2006
Active User, very eHealthy
"finally, there are the pro-foetus group. Often referred to as 'anti-women'. They do not agree with abortion under any circumstances , including rape or severe medical problems with the baby and/or mother. They favour the unborn over the born. "

well I dont think a child should be killed just because his mother got raped?

I dont think a child should be killed just because he or she is disabled or in some other way servearly handicapped

i dont think a child should be killed because his mother is ill even sevearly ill.




And I also extend these beliefs to unborn children too.




However where things change is this.

I dont believe a born child should be killed even if his mother is dying

however in the case of a unborn child its slightly more complex.

If the mother may die due to complications then I believe she has a choice to make since one persons life is not worth another persons life. So I think the woman has a choice to make between her own life and the unborn childs since neither surpasses the other.

Now when the mother makes the choice either to die herself or kill the unborn child I believe the doctors have a duty to try and save both and cay out the womans wishes only as a last resort.


I am neither pro fetus nor pro woman.... I am pro life!
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied September 24th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
Why should a woman have to carry a rape child she didnt do it to herself and for that you are anti-woman pardon my beliefs but a woman never asked to be rape!!!

The bloody nerve
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 24th, 2006
Active User, very eHealthy
Quote:
i believe that both extremists are against full rights. Pro-aborts don't want any mother having a child unless she's totally perfectly capable of caring for it, and they also want abortions without choice for all teens, plus, abortions for those who have too many babies; all of which are wrong.


sorry to bash on you eiri, but I really don't see what the problem is with any of those scenarios. You're saying that's there's nothing wrong with women having babies they can't afford and teens dropping out of school to raise kids they probably don't know a damn thing about? What good are serial breeders doing for the world by making more people to use up resources even faster?

I'm not attacking you, eiri...I'm just wondering your opinion further in this discussion. I would say I walk the line between extremist and pro-choice, but i'm failing to see the problem with getting women and teens to get rid of children they can't support. Call me crazy, but I think quality of life should trump mere life by itself, and when one doesn't have money to feed themselves or pay their bills, or doesn't even have a proper education, what right do they have to bring a child into such a lousy life, except to make the child suffer alongside them (the schadenfreude must be delicious)?
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 25th, 2006
Especially eHealthy
cambion wrote:
Quote:
i believe that both extremists are against full rights. Pro-aborts don't want any mother having a child unless she's totally perfectly capable of caring for it, and they also want abortions without choice for all teens, plus, abortions for those who have too many babies; all of which are wrong.


sorry to bash on you eiri, but I really don't see what the problem is with any of those scenarios. You're saying that's there's nothing wrong with women having babies they can't afford and teens dropping out of school to raise kids they probably don't know a damn thing about? What good are serial breeders doing for the world by making more people to use up resources even faster?

I'm not attacking you, eiri...I'm just wondering your opinion further in this discussion. I would say I walk the line between extremist and pro-choice, but i'm failing to see the problem with getting women and teens to get rid of children they can't support. Call me crazy, but I think quality of life should trump mere life by itself, and when one doesn't have money to feed themselves or pay their bills, or doesn't even have a proper education, what right do they have to bring a child into such a lousy life, except to make the child suffer alongside them (the schadenfreude must be delicious)?


i'm not bashing on you either; but being pro-abortion means that teen girl having no choice in the matter, and that is very very wrong. People have the right to smoke and drink; she has the right to give brith. Denying that right is heinous.

Teens aborting if they want to is fine; but forcing an abortion on every unmarried girl under the age of 18 is just wrong.

forcing abortion on anyone is wrong to the core. Forcing birth upon anyone is wrong to the core. That is true pro-choice.

we females have the right to do what we want with our bodies; when men can give birth then they can tell us what to do. If we want to abort, it is our choice, final answer.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied September 25th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
I think the day men can have kids willbe the days men will stop having sex lol, if only they got to suffer lol!
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 25th, 2006
Especially eHealthy
diamondsz wrote:
i think the day men can have kids willbe the days men will stop having sex lol, if only they got to suffer lol!


or it'll be the day they actually start caring about birth control as a gender and not just individuals.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied September 25th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
eiri wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
i think the day men can have kids willbe the days men will stop having sex lol, if only they got to suffer lol!


or it'll be the day they actually start caring about birth control as a gender and not just individuals.


i bloody well hope so, hubby is getting fixed because I keep getting preggo off b/c and its bloody annoying, I got an email last night thought id share.

I know i'm not going to understand women.

I'll never understand how you can have a child,

go through pregnancy, live through contractions,

and still be afraid of a spider.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 25th, 2006
Especially eHealthy
diamondsz wrote:
eiri wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
i think the day men can have kids willbe the days men will stop having sex lol, if only they got to suffer lol!


or it'll be the day they actually start caring about birth control as a gender and not just individuals.


i bloody well hope so, hubby is getting fixed because I keep getting preggo off b/c and its bloody annoying, I got an email last night thought id share.


I know i'm not going to understand women.

I'll never understand how you can have a child,

go through pregnancy, live through contractions,

and still be afraid of a spider.


ooh, that's cute .X.D
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 25th, 2006
Active User, very eHealthy
Quote:
i think the day men can have kids willbe the days men will stop having sex lol, if only they got to suffer lol!


i'd bet every last cent in my wallet that if men could get pregnant, abortions would be far more common, far more accepted, and far cheaper. Sadly, our country still lives by a lot of fundie principles and men are considered the leaders, the most valuable, the ones who should be in the work force, and so on. Heaven forbid the "useful" creatures be impeded by pregnancy.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied September 25th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
Diamondsz
I like your little e-mail!

I also agree about the rape situatiion!
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied September 26th, 2006
Active User, very eHealthy
"why should a woman have to carry a rape child she didnt do it to herself and for that you are anti-woman pardon my beliefs but a woman never asked to be rape!!!"

no you see your looking at it from a pro woman point of view, now I have already said in this issue I am neither pro woman or pro fetus but pro life.


The brilliance of this possition is you dont actuall have any irrational obligation to either the fetus or the woman only to life itself.


So from that point of view I would say you are perfectly correct in your pro woman stance that the woman didnt do it to herself and that she didnt ask to be raped...As can not be held accountable....You are 100% correct.


However I can also say that the child herself did not rape the woman and as such also can not be held accountable

we can not punish the woman for being raped and we can not punish a child for being concieved due to rape for neither have commited a crime, therefore the only person left who we can punish is the rapist.



So if we can not punish either the woman or the fetus. But what happens if the woman feels like the child is a punishment for being raped which could happen in unstabble situations.

Well if that happens we are left in a damn awful possition arnt we...Either this woman has to suffer excruciating emotional torture for 9 months or kill an innocent child - neither option is going to be suitable solution.... So we must therefore choose an option that is preferable.


So what we are left with is

1. Suffering of mother for 9 months (she will suffer for rest of life due to rape but that is due to the rape not the resulting pregnancy)

or

2. The extermination of a whole life except for the short few weeks after the conception.


Now for those who advocate the death of the child, I simply do not see how 9 months sufferring (not punishment despite the emotional feelings of the mother its not punishment) = the extermination of a childs whole life.


If they say that the woman will suffer for the rest of her life, she will suffer anyway despite the pregnancy.


If they say well the woman feels the emotional suffering while the child is unable to feel if that is the case then surely this child will not suffer the same emotional pain as the woman when it is able to feel. Therefore who is it better to kill the child who will suffer no or little emotional pain or the woman who will live with great emotional pain for the rest of her life if she carries her child to term or not.


Now I do not say that either should be killed, I say that the child is innocent and can not be put to death for a crime she didnt commit.


I also do not believe a woman in emotional pain should be left unaided but everything should be done to help her at least deal with the pain if not in some way help ease the pain.

But at least a painful life is a life and a life that should not be killed because of the pain

killing the child through abortion is eding the life of a child who is in no pain at all
|
Did you find this post helpful?
12