It's turning into an absolute joke again. Is it difficult to understand that pro-choice/pro-life views are not appropriate there?
I can appreciate that if you disagree with abortion then it may be difficult to not express that view but women considering abortion sometimes simply need to know that there's help available - either way without having people show them images of fetuses (fatfamily) or mentioning "baby killer" etc...

I am aware that it's not just people from pro-life who have spoiled a certain thread in the forum but it bothers me that this woman has come for support and it's been turned into yet another debate/slanging match.
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replied April 20th, 2006
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Moo I don't understand what is your problem. I mean we are real people and what she reads here is what people will tell her in the real world. She should know everything, she should know what awaits for her, how people will think about her etc, how she may feel etc..I'm actually saying in the forum, you should think of the number of people emailing her. I'm sorry if I dissapointed in the forum but what this lady is going to do aborting a baby at 15 weeks is awful and no way in the world I could reinforce (if this what you call support) her decision on doing such a brutal thing.
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replied April 20th, 2006
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If you cannot support/reinforce her decision then don't post there. It's her decision and hers alone, she doesn't need to be told what pro-life people will think of her afterwards because, believe it or not, it's not often you encounter those opinions in 'real' life.
My 'problem' is that i've been in the position where I needed support and I remember how confusing it is without people adding propaganda into their "support" - it's a ****ing joke. If she asked for peoples opinions on abortion at 15weeks then fine, call her names, give your opinion but she asked for support and information about procedure (which doesn't include things such as "chopping up your baby ")
people are provided with information about the procedure before the termination, it's a legal requirement that you understand the nature of it. She's clearly looking for information so she's not going into it blindly and she is questioning it and appears to be looking at all aspects so I don't see why there's this need to prevent her from making her own decision

Quote:
she should know what awaits for her

have you had an abortion? Do you know anyone who's had a late term abortion? Do you personally know what "awaits" you after a termination? Are you basing this on anything other than your opinion?
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replied April 20th, 2006
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replied April 20th, 2006
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I don't want anything 'kept quiet', I believe in informed choice. Telling her that her baby will be crushed/ripped apart etc... Though is not informing her - it's using emotionally manipulative language to attempt to persuade her to not abort. I think she sounds unsure and have tried to offer advice as best I can regarding either decision she makes.

Show her pictures if you must but she didn't ask to see what a fetus (older than the gestation she is at) looks like, she was asking about procedure. My actual ****ing problem is people mentioning "baby killer" in the support forum, that's what annoyed me, that's what made me start this thread. If you cannot support her objectively then why post?

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yet you do not want her to see these pictures, why.?

i don't care whether or not she sees those pictures, it's not my choice. I care that things were posted in a support forum that are clearly not supportive. It's her decision, it doesn't affect me either way so I offered my objective support.
Non of this is about me, it's about people being unable to leave their agenda (and note, I didn't say this was one sided) behind when offering 'support'.
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replied April 20th, 2006
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Moo, this lady expressed in her first post "she doesn't know what to do". This means she wants feedback not only on the procedure but on what to do. She is definetly unsure and she did not went there for people to just tell her go ahead to abort if that's what you want she is asking "what to do". I did not even said her anything wrong, I simply asked her what difference does it make being suctioned to death than to be chopped into pieces? She should actually see a video of how this suctioning procedure so she has a clear idea if that is what she wants.

Whatever she decides moo it's not going to affect me. God is going to judge me for what I have done not for anybody else. I feel sorry for the little angel and for her because she doesn't seem to be so sure of what she is going to do.
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replied April 20th, 2006
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moo wrote:
i don't want anything 'kept quiet', I believe in informed choice. Telling her that her baby will be crushed/ripped apart etc... Though is not informing her - it's using emotionally manipulative language to attempt to persuade her to not abort.



why do you say using the words crushed/ripped apart are emotionally manipulative? Those words are exactly what is is. You can sugar coat all you want but it is what is is moo.
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replied April 20th, 2006
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Why call it a baby when it's actually a fetus then?
Why not desibe it using the corect medical terms (i.E d&e fo te getin she was asking)?
That's not "sugar coating it", it's describing the procedure without an agenda.

She said she was unsure, did you need to mention the words "baby killer" in your response or asking why she differentiated between procedures (in vulgar wording)?
The fact is, no-one could tell her either way, just offer her links to resources for either decision she made (and the tone of her post did suggest that she wanted people to reinforce her decision to abort - something that no-one actually did)

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she should actually see a video of how this suctioning procedure so she has a clear idea if that is what she wants.

have you watched videos of surgery you've had prior to it? I certainly haven't and wouldn't want to - abortion or otherwise. No surgery looks pleasant, it's not a reason to now go ahead with it if you need/want it.
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I feel sorry for the little angel and for her because she doesn't seem to be so sure of what she is going to do.

i feel sorry for her, having to make this decision.
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replied April 20th, 2006
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And clearly admin thought you said something inappropriate as it was edited/removed.
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replied April 20th, 2006
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moo wrote:
why call it a baby when it's actually a fetus then?


Why not desibe it using the corect medical terms (i.E d&e fo te getin she was asking)?


That's not "sugar coating it", it's describing the procedure without an agenda.



She said she was unsure, did you need to mention the words "baby killer" in your response or asking why she differentiated between procedures (in vulgar wording)?


The fact is, no-one could tell her either way, just offer her links to resources for either decision she made (and the tone of her post did suggest that she wanted people to reinforce her decision to abort - something that no-one actually did)

Quote:
she should actually see a video of how this suctioning procedure so she has a clear idea if that is what she wants.

have you watched videos of surgery you've had prior to it? I certainly haven't and wouldn't want to - abortion or otherwise. No surgery looks pleasant, it's not a reason to now go ahead with it if you need/want it.


Quote:
I feel sorry for the little angel and for her because she doesn't seem to be so sure of what she is going to do.

i feel sorry for her, having to make this decision.



i did not mentioned "baby killer" when I asked the difference between the procedures. That was bahaha who came to say baby killer.



Btw I have had one surgery in my life and I absolutetly would have loved to see it. It was voluntary major surgery (nose plastic surgery) and I did woke up in the middle of it (when he was crushing the bone of my nose)and heard the doctor talking. I was crying in pain but boy did I loved. I have a beautiful nose now :)

now this type of surgery is very different to an abortion procedure. An abortion procedure is a surgery to kill a baby. And not any baby, your baby. Shall I call it fetus to not sound emotional? My friend at work is 15 weeks pregnant and she never uses the word fetus when she, me or anyone else refers to her baby, nobody does moo!!!! Haven't you noticed?????????? Fetus sure is the correct scientific word but it is not used in everyday language when a woman is pregnant. Can you imagine saying oh let's go to the "fetus shower" hehehe how's your fetus doing? 15 weeks actually it's a full fledged fetus with all it's organs in place that only needs to expand.
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replied April 21st, 2006
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nightangel73 wrote:
moo I don't understand what is your problem. I mean we are real people and what she reads here is what people will tell her in the real world. She should know everything, she should know what awaits for her, how people will think about her etc, how she may feel etc..I'm actually saying in the forum, you should think of the number of people emailing her. I'm sorry if I dissapointed in the forum but what this lady is going to do aborting a baby at 15 weeks is awful and no way in the world I could reinforce (if this what you call support) her decision on doing such a brutal thing.


yeah and so it's right to show a 16 week old fetus when the one she wants to abort is only 15 weeks old....
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replied April 21st, 2006
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replied April 21st, 2006
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Quote:
now this type of surgery is very different to an abortion procedure.

all types of surgery are different, my rhinoplasty was totally different to when I had my appendix out or my broken leg fixed etc...
Quote:
an abortion procedure is a surgery to kill a baby. And not any baby, your baby.

so it has f-all to do with you then (and the surgery is to remove the pregnancy, if the z/e/f could survive outside of the womb it wouldn't be killed - the fact it can't is secondary but as you're all about the fetus I guess you wont grasp that)
Quote:
my friend at work is 15 weeks pregnant and she never uses the word fetus when she, me or anyone else refers to her baby, nobody does moo!!!!

as i've said before, I called my fetus "peanut", it didn't change the fact that it was actually a fetus.
Quote:
15 weeks actually it's a full fledged fetus with all it's organs in place that only needs to expand.

at 15weeks there is still alot of development to be done, it cannot possibly survive outside of the womb and if someone chooses to abort at that gestation then it's their choice
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yes seeing has it will be of that gestation or older when she has the abortion.

no actually, she was booked in for the abortion at 15weeks, she was/is at an earlier gestation
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replied April 21st, 2006
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moo wrote:
Quote:
now this type of surgery is very different to an abortion procedure.

all types of surgery are different, my rhinoplasty was totally different to when I had my appendix out or my broken leg fixed etc...



Quote:
an abortion procedure is a surgery to kill a baby. And not any baby, your baby.

so it has f-all to do with you then (and the surgery is to remove the pregnancy, if the z/e/f could survive outside of the womb it wouldn't be killed - the fact it can't is secondary but as you're all about the fetus I guess you wont grasp that)
Quote:
my friend at work is 15 weeks pregnant and she never uses the word fetus when she, me or anyone else refers to her baby, nobody does moo!!!!

as i've said before, I called my fetus "peanut", it didn't change the fact that it was actually a fetus.



Quote:
15 weeks actually it's a full fledged fetus with all it's organs in place that only needs to expand.

at 15weeks there is still alot of development to be done, it cannot possibly survive outside of the womb and if someone chooses to abort at that gestation then it's their choice
Quote:
yes seeing has it will be of that gestation or older when she has the abortion.

no actually, she was booked in for the abortion at 15weeks, she was/is at an earlier gestation


and what does it matter if the fetus is able to survive outside the womb? The purpose of the abortion is to kill, no matter if the fetus is able to survive outside the womb or not. Even if the fetus is able to survive at 15 weeks outside the womb that is not going change the woman decision to abort. You really think it would?
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replied April 21st, 2006
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moo wrote:

as i've said before, I called my fetus "peanut", it didn't change the fact that it was actually a fetus.




nice cute word "peanut". Whatever helps you sleep at night moo.
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replied April 21st, 2006
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Quote:
he purpose of the abortion is to kill

the purpose of abortion is to stop the woman being pregnant, the fact the z/e/f dies is secondary 9and that's what survival outside of the womb has to do with it)
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even if the fetus is able to survive at 15 weeks outside the womb that is not going change the woman decision to abort. You really think it would?

it would change my mind, yes.
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nice cute word "peanut". Whatever helps you sleep at night moo

i don't need anything to help me sleep at night and fyi that wasn't my aborted fetus I was referring too it was my miscarried one.
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replied April 21st, 2006
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cowboys wrote:
eiri wrote:
nightangel73 wrote:
moo I don't understand what is your problem. I mean we are real people and what she reads here is what people will tell her in the real world. She should know everything, she should know what awaits for her, how people will think about her etc, how she may feel etc..I'm actually saying in the forum, you should think of the number of people emailing her. I'm sorry if I dissapointed in the forum but what this lady is going to do aborting a baby at 15 weeks is awful and no way in the world I could reinforce (if this what you call support) her decision on doing such a brutal thing.


yeah and so it's right to show a 16 week old fetus when the one she wants to abort is only 15 weeks old....


yes seeing has it will be of that gestation or older when she has the abortion.


no... It was 14 weeks as of her post and would be 15 by her abortion. Not 16.
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replied April 21st, 2006
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moo wrote:

i don't need anything to help me sleep at night and fyi that wasn't my aborted fetus I was referring too it was my miscarried one.


i'm sorry for your miscarriage.. Apologies didn't know
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replied April 22nd, 2006
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I must concur with moo - the abortion forum is for women who are seeking support for a decision they made, one they are going to make, or one they are contemplating. They don't need a bunch of freaking fetus-humping, woman-hating fundies telling them "omg dun kill your baybeeee cuz its a precious myrakul of god and it will make everything good and u is evill 4 wantin 2 kill yer chyuld". I see nothing wrong with explaining the procedure or showing these women pictures of fetuses - it's what will be happening, so it's best that the women are informed. However, it ruffled my feathers when people will post pictures of stillborn fetuses to try and make women feel guilty.

Quote:
i don't want anything 'kept quiet', I believe in informed choice. Telling her that her baby will be crushed/ripped apart etc... Though is not informing her - it's using emotionally manipulative language to attempt to persuade her to not abort.


i agree. I watched a video of an abortion a while back, and just by the language that was used, I could tell it was a pro-life fundie "save the babies" type of video. "torn", "crushed", and "ripped" will pluck the heart strings of many women when they are spoken in terms of a fetus. A lot of women are not phased by this, but people spout out such language to try and talk women out of their decisions. Sadly, many of these women allow themselves to be led away from their original decision and regret not following through with it.

This is off-topic, but the fetus in nightangel's picture looks like it has an overbite. Yummy..
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replied April 22nd, 2006
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