February 12th, 2006
Especially eHealthy
My husband already aid hes getting it done ive just never heard ne thing about it thanks michelle but I was planning to ask my doctor ne ways
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 12th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
Its child abuse damnit! So your guilty as!
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 12th, 2006
Experienced User
I am personally 100% anti-circ. I did not have my son circ'd and I never will have any son of mine circ'd.

Just some things to think about in making your decision..

- the foreskin has 240 feet of them and 1,000 nerve endings, similar to those on the fingers and lips.

- circucmision removes approximately 12 inches of sexually sensitive skin.

- the complication rate of circumcision is estimated to be between 2% and 10%. More then the rate of complications from being uncut. Complications include uncontrollable bleeding, infection, disfigurement, penile amputation, and death.

- the risk of developing penile cancer is less than 1 in 100,000 men...Circumcised or not. Penile cancer occurs in 37% of circumcised men.

- only 10-15% of men in the entire world are circumcised. It is not the majority. In the us it's down to barely a majority at 65%. In canada it's less than half at 48%. It's even less in europe, asia and australia.

- the rate of uncut adult men who opt to be circumcised in america is less then .5%. If circumcision was so beneficial and wonderful, you'd think the right would be higher and men would be rushing to have it done. They're not.

- circumcision has been shown to cause various behavioral problems in newborns, such as problems nursing, bonding and sleeping. Similar to signs of post traumatic stress disorder (ptsd). For more info, you can read this: http://www.Circumcision.Org/response.Htm

- almost all of the well known and respected medical organizations have condemned routine infant circumcision. A few are listed here:
in the usa:
american academy of pediatrics (aap)
american academy of family physicians (aafp)
american medical association (ama)
american college of obstetricians and gynecologists (acog)

in australia:
royal australasian college of physicians (racp)
australasian association of paediatric surgeons (aaps)

in canada:
canadian paediatric society
college of physicians and surgeons of manitoba (cpsm)
college of physicians and surgeons of saskatchewan
college of physicians and surgeons of british columbia

in the united kingdom:
british medical association (bma)
british medical journal (bmj)
general medical council (gmc)
british association of paediatric surgeons

- routine anesthetic is not used during circumcision because newborn pain is disregarded. It was only the turn of the 20th century that it was believed that women felt no pain and that was how we could survive childbirth. And also how they justified it being legal for husbands to beat or strap their wives if their wife stepped out of line. Studies are now showing that infants do feel pain, infact infants feel pain more acutely then adults do. Post-circumcision studies have shown that circumcised boys have lower pain thresholds then non-circumcised boys, even years down the line. Boys who were circumcised as infants have been shown in studies to cry for more extended periods during routine immunizations or other minor procedures then non-circumcised boys.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied February 12th, 2006
Supporter
macysmama wrote:
my husband already aid hes getting it done ive just never heard ne thing about it thanks michelle but I was planning to ask my doctor ne ways

you're welcome, anytime :)
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 12th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
Thank u hunter! See you guys, I was right, dont do it, its not the best thing for the baby at all! Ones who have done it, should feel so bad about harming their baby. Hope they make it illegal, like female circumcision is in our countries.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied February 12th, 2006
Supporter
Ty hunter, now why don't you show the cons to not having it done :)
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 12th, 2006
Experienced User
michelle1981 wrote:
ty hunter, now why don't you show the cons to not having it done :)


because there are pretty much no cons to being uncircumcised.

The only benefit that has actually been proven through various studies is that it does lower the risk of aids/hiv. Ok sure, great. However, hiv is faceless and genderless and if a man is engaging in risky behavior that might lead to catching any sort of std, being circumcised isn't protection. If a circumcised man has sex with someone with hiv, he might catch it. Just like someone who's not circumcised. And last time I checked, being uncirc'd is no guarantee that you're going to be more 'slutty' (pardon the language) then someone who isn't circ'd.

90% of boys are able to retract their foreskin by puberty so the chance of having a boy who needs to be circ'd later in life for this reason is less than 10%.

The risk of any man developing a uti is pretty well non-existant.

The whole 'cervical cancer' thing comes from hpv ('genital warts') which again...Being circumcised is no 'cure' or 'barrier' against. Not to mention which, not every strand of hpv causes cervical cancer. I myself got hpv from a man who was circumcised and it didn't give me cervical cancer.

I've read studies that show that circumcised men tend to thrust a lot more roughly during sex then uncircumcised men, to make up for the lost sensitivity that the foreskin provides as it rubs over the penis during sex. That roughness can be uncomfortable for many women. You can read personal experiences of circ'd vs uncirc'd sex here: http://www.Mothersagainstcirc.Org/sex-cut- uncut.Htm

as for the whole "eww it's gross and dirty under there" arguement. The fluid produced is a natural lubricant and cleaning action. It's the exact same one that occurs under the head of the clitoris in women. No one ever implied or believed that you or I or any other woman was too stupid or lazy to learn how to clean ourselves so we should have our clitoral hoods removed. So I find it insulting to think that just because someone has testicals, that they have such low iq or respect for their body that they can't figure out how to clean themselves. The fluid is called smegma, it's not harmful and takes 2 seconds to wash away just like you do. And yes it is the same thing as for women..

"the female clitoris corresponds to homologous parts of the male penis, i.E., embryologically it comes from the same tissue that forms the penis. The trigger for forming a penis instead of a clitoris is the action of testosterone in utero." from wikipedia.

If you want to have your child circ'd, go ahead. I don't care either way, I made my choice. But I hate it when people toss out information like there's some real benefit to it. You're doing it for asthetic purposes, because you like the look of it better and nothing more.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

User Profile
replied February 12th, 2006
Supporter
hunterjumper wrote:
if you want to have your child circ'd, go ahead. I don't care either way, I made my choice. But I hate it when people toss out information like there's some real benefit to it. You're doing it for asthetic purposes, because you like the look of it better and nothing more.

are you speaking out of your hunter? I specifically said it's all personal choice and never influenced anyone here to have their child circumcised. As for the reason you placed on me for having my boys done is absolutely ridicules. Show me where I wrote that's why I had my boys done... You can't!

The argument started when the word abuse was brought up!!!

I set up a poll in the mens forum, so you can see for yourself!

Http://ehealthforum.Com/health/topic55204. Html

like I said before and i'll continue to say, it's all personal choice

i'm done!!!
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 12th, 2006
Active User, very eHealthy
allie_18 wrote:
thank u hunter! See you guys, I was right, dont do it, its not the best thing for the baby at all! Ones who have done it, should feel so bad about harming their baby. Hope they make it illegal, like female circumcision is in our countries.


ok allie as I have said before u make your point... But can u please stop pointing the guilty finger at people who have done it... I mean its their choice. Things are going to hurt a bay dosent mean ur a child abuser... My neice went and got shots the other day and screamed bloody muder I felt so bad for her but its not like its actually going to kill them. You have your views but lets not play the name calling game and point the finger at people because they chose what they did.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 12th, 2006
Experienced User
michelle1981 wrote:

are you speaking out of your a$$ hunter? I specifically said it's all personal choice and never influenced anyone here to have their child circumcised. As for the reason you placed on me for having my boys done is absolutely ridicules. Show me where I wrote that's why I had my boys done... You can't!


i didn't say you did specifically. I said it in general terms. You were acting snarky like I was hiding some secret that circumcision is some guarantee that you'll live a full, long and fulfilling life of riches and beautiful women so that I could push an anti-circ agenda.

Quote:
the argument started when the word abuse was brought up!!!


that wasn't me so before you try and flame someone make sure you're talking to the right person. I never said it was child abuse.

Quote:
i set up a poll in the mens forum, so you can see for yourself!


not exactly a huge surprise that if you ask a bunch of men who were circumcised at birth if they're alright with it, they say yes. Who wants to consider that maybe it was the wrong choice? That maybe they're not the majority? And it's not like they have a base to consider sex before and after being cut. Men who do pretty well invariably say that sex was far better pre-circ then post.

My son's father was circ'd and he says much the same. He doesn't remember and is happy the way he is. He wanted our son to be circ'd.

Quote:
like I said before and i'll continue to say, it's all personal choice

i'm done!!!


yes, it is. It's your child's personal choice and their personal body. I realize that since infants and children aren't mature or responsible enough to understand how to make informed decisions parents must step in however there's a big difference between making sure a child is fed and keeping them healthy that way then cutting off parts of their anatomy for reasons purely asthetic since there is only one very minor slight benefit to circumcision if you actually do enough digging and reading.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 13th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
Yea exactly what hunter said! The only reason you get them done is because of an old tradition which began with religion because god told people to do it in the bible, and you prefere the look of it. Hunter found the proof theres no necessary reason to put your baby through that pain, really its disfiguring them. Its part of their body, and you should love every part of them, not go chopping bits of skin off! I love my baby too much to hurt him with an operation he doesnt even need! So thats it im not having him done, or any other boys I might have in the future. Its ridiculous! I only know of one mother here who had her boy circumcised, its rarely done in the uk anymore. Some americans/canadians really need to get a clue on this subject!
Rubmybuddahbelly you cant compare an injection to prevent a disease, to this. It doesnt have any pro's apart from how it looks better, and some dont even think it looks better either!
*gets out the knife out ready to slice parts of michelle to make her look better down below* haha
see you wouldnt like it, would you! Damnit
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 13th, 2006
Experienced User
allie_18 wrote:

see you wouldnt like it, would you! Damnit


allie, I don't know how old you are but you sound fairly young. Debating is a hard skill to learn. I know that this is a hot topic and of course, when pain and babies is involved you can't help but feel the need to step in. But flaming people does nothing. It will turn them off and even if you have the most amazing point or proof in the world, they won't listen to anything after you've insulted them or made them feel like bad parents. They aren't. Sometimes they simply lack information. And even if you give them information, they will still make choices you don't agree with. That's the way the world works and you just have to accept it and move on.

You can't control people and insulting them does nothing. Lead by example. Collect the knowledge. Pass it on. Then move on. :wink:
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 13th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
Well shes being a !**@! and shes wrong!
But I get what you mean.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 13th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
I'm having my son's done at the hospital.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 13th, 2006
Experienced User
Pros For Circ/cons For Not Circ
Circumcision prevents phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin at an age when it should normally be retractable), paraphimosis (the painful inability to return the foreskin to its original location) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).

Circumcision increases the chance of meatitis (inflammation of the opening of the penis).

Circumcision may result in a decreased incidence of urinary tract infections.
Circumcision may result in a lower incidence of sexually transmitted
diseases.

Circumcision may lower the risk for cancer of the cervix in sexual partners(yes, one day ur lil boy will be having sex =] )

circumcision may decrease the risk for cancer of the penis.


I'm just throwing this out there---there are reasons for and against so its just a personal/religious decisions the parents have to make---its not curel and there is no reason for everyone to argue about all this.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 13th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
Child abuser
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 13th, 2006
Experienced User
Lol me? Am I the 'child abuser'...Seeing as haven't had any children yet thats not possible..And fyi if I have a boy I won't circ him b/c his daddy isn't I said it was his choice if we have a boy...I was just trying to let ppl see both sides of the argument---but somepeople must just be to narrow minded to see that maybe, just maybe, there are up sides to circ....
::roll::
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 13th, 2006
Experienced User
Re: Pros For Circ/cons For Not Circ
surrender wrote:
circumcision prevents phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin at an age when it should normally be retractable), paraphimosis (the painful inability to return the foreskin to its original location) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).


90% of boys are able to retract their foreskin by puberty. That means the risk of that happening is less than 10%. It's a stupid reason to circ just because of what might happen, especially at such a small chance. If it was a known 99% guarantee that it would happen I could understand but not for less than 10%. That's like cutting off your ears to prevent a possible ear infection in the future. You don't know it'll happen.

Quote:
circumcision may result in a decreased incidence of urinary tract infections.


and the risk of any man developing a uti is only around 12% and can easily be cured by taking antibiotics for a week or so. Not a reason to circumcise at all. Again, why not cut off girl's breasts then because it's far more likely a woman will develop breast cancer then that a man will develop a uti? Why not remove the uterus? Why not take a boy's testicals too? Testicular cancer is far more common than a uti.

Quote:
circumcision may result in a lower incidence of sexually transmitted diseases.


only hiv and the rate is pretty well negligable. Circumcision is no barrier against stds if the man is out there having sex and unprotected sex.

Quote:
circumcision may lower the risk for cancer of the cervix in sexual partners(yes, one day ur lil boy will be having sex =] )


that stems from the same idea as the above. That circumcision lowers the risk of stds. The std hpv has been linked to cervical cancer. But only certain strains (and I believe there are something like 40 plus strains of hpv). And again, circumcision is no cure. I personally got hpv from a circumcised man. It did not cause cervical cancer.

Quote:
circumcision may decrease the risk for cancer of the penis.


only occurs in 1 in 100,000 men. Again, breast cancer and uterine cancer and testicular cancer and actually every single type of cancer is more prevalant than penile cancer. Not a reason to circ at all unless you plan to remove the breasts, uterus and testicals as well since they are riskier to be carrying around.

Quote:
i'm just throwing this out there---there are reasons for and against so its just a personal/religious decisions the parents have to make---its not curel and there is no reason for everyone to argue about all this.


i'm not trying to be rude but please do some research before you throw things out. There is no positive reason to circumcise and if you had read things, you would know that. Throwing out stuff like "it lowers the risk of this and that." when it's been proven not to only furthers people's beliefs that it does those things. Circumcision rates will never go down if the same myths keep getting pushed.
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 14th, 2006
Experienced User
Well !**@! hell!!! So I guess you are just smarter than everyone who's ever written anything on the upsides of circ. I could go thro your reasons not to and say why they're wrong but !**@!! I have a life and don't need to make myself all high and mighty by just pushing what I believe in. Who gives a flying !**@! what other ppl do w/ their baby boys. You just worry about the wieners you have to circ, and i'll worry about my
..For the love of.....Yeish!
|
Did you find this post helpful?

replied February 14th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
Yea well unlike you, I care about all babies, not just my own. If people dont know theres no good enough reason to chop your baby's skin off, then im telling them to protect the babies who cant speak out for themselves! Hunter has shown proof its not good thing to do! If you love your baby as much as you should, then u wont do it to them! :x
|
Did you find this post helpful?
Must Read
A definition of the medical practice of infant male circumcision....
Is circumcision required for male babies? Why are boys circumcised? A quick review of the medical benefits of circumcision here. ...
What happens during a routine circumcision for a male child? Read more about this common procedure....