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Circumcision: What Do You Think? (Page 1)

HEY everyne i got this idea from the pregnancy thread but i didnt want to start any debateing there so i made one here

ok so i know many people disagree on this subject. id just like to see where everyone stands on it and why. maybe we can ll learn a little bit from this debate:

so would you have your son circumsized or not? why? whats your reasoning behind it?
do you think circumsision is painful and why or why not?

AND
if the tables were turned: how do you feel about female genital mutilation? do you agree or disagree with it? if you do they why? if not theny why? and if you believe in male circumsision but not that of the female then why?

Very Happy
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replied January 7th, 2008
Most Diplomatic Poster
i think there was a long debate about this on the parenting debate forum. i asked the question long before eadie was born and it got locked right away before anyone even said anything.
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replied January 7th, 2008
Especially eHealthy
well hopefully everyone can keep it civil
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replied January 7th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
if I have a son, I am definitely for it. My fiancee has a 9yr old boy and he was circumcised at birth (easy for him because he was in the NICU and didn't have to deal with it, it was healed by the time he got to come home). from what I have seen and heard, most 'painful' procedures done on babies don't affect them as much as adults. Even non medical things like hiccups and chickenpox don't affect babies/small children as much as adults. I've had two friends who were circumcised after they were babies (one was 5 and the other was 16). Both would rather of had it done at birth and both couldn't walk for awhile, although the 16 year old was up and about after about 2 days, while the 5 year old was bedridden for more than a week (although he could have just been sucking it up).

As for female mutilation, there is no medical benefit from it, so why do it? Some older women will have their outer lips surgically reduced, but that's for the purpose of making sex more enjoyable and not painful, and only if it gets in the way obviously.

As for male circumcision, it reduces the chance of UTI. Although it's small, it helps (babyAndy). It is also easier and faster to clean if it is. If it's not you have to pull it back and wash every inch of skin. But if it is, you only have to clean around, not in out and around.

Plus they've been doing it for almost forever. They have found Egyptian Hieroglyphics where they are circumcising with two rocks, imagine that pain compared to today.
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replied January 7th, 2008
Active User, very eHealthy
You Are All Wiser Than Me
But, I believe that God demanded that little piece of flesh back to show that we belong to him.

Further, circumcised men appear to have less chance of problems with penal diseases.

The penis stays cleaner, provides a safer environment for the wife/lover/significant other. So, please tell me what could be wrong with that?
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replied January 7th, 2008
Especially eHealthy
Re: You Are All Wiser Than Me
Roberta777 wrote:
But, I believe that God demanded that little piece of flesh back to show that we belong to him.

Further, circumcised men appear to have less chance of problems with penal diseases.

The penis stays cleaner, provides a safer environment for the wife/lover/significant other. So, please tell me what could be wrong with that?


clean your penis and you wont have a problem Smile
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replied January 8th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
Male genital reduction surgery is inhumane. You can call it "circumcision" but it's a violent mutilation against a helpless infant on his most sensitive of organs.

Here's a photograph showing a circumcision:

http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plas tibell/ouch.gif

Notice the scream of agony while someone cuts off part of his penis.

http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plas tibell/

Cleaner? A circumcized penis is cleaner? Maybe we should cut the folds off our ears so we can be lazy about washing those. While we're at it, lets get all our teeth pulled out so we don't have to bother with nasty cavities, either.

The rationalization that circumcision is a sanitary practice came about after "doctors" figured out that male genital multilation doesn't actually prevent cancer. Or masturbation. http://www.infocirc.org/facts.htm

Good resource to read debunking hilarious myths about circumsicion being more sanitary: http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/milos-m acris/

Roberta, I find this in startling contrast with your prolife position. Put your bible down and ask yourself if it is okay to mutilate babies without even anethesia for the sake of social conventions.
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replied January 8th, 2008
Especially eHealthy
I never understood the argument that it's cleaner. Women have tons of folds and crevices down there, and no one ever suggested that we cut them off for the sake of hygeine.
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replied January 8th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
cleaner meaning you have to actully take the time and pull back the forskin and clean under it. Some men don't and get infections. And this would mean a mother would have to take the time to do it for her child until what age??? We won't go there.. Smile
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replied January 8th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
Once the pain is done and over with, the infant will have no memory what-so-ever of this happening to him. If they wait and do it when they are older, they will remember every crucial detail.

Having to look like you dad is a very good reason. mrsJ stated (on the other forum http://pregnancy.ehealthforum.com/health/v iewtopic.php?t=121812&start=20) that her brothers were never circumcised, but there father was. So in confusion, one of her brothers tried to circumcise himself with a pair of scissors, for sake that he would look more like his dad. If your husband is circumcised, would you really want your child doing that to himself?

http://www.pollockclinics.com/circumcision /circumcision-video.html This baby seems calm and collected, plus its a video of him, so you know he's calm. They strap you down for a C-section, but you don't hear women complaining they were forced to do so. They strap them down so they don't kick the doctor while he has sharp instruments around their most sensitive area. They know what they are doing. That's why I'd rather have it done at birth because they have done so many and know exactly what they are doing, unlike when they get older.
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replied January 8th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
Oh, well, if the infant won't remember the excruciating pain of getting part of his penis cut off, then let's just keep doing it.

Oh, wait, he won't remember?

Quote:
According to a comprehensive recent study, infant responses to pain are “similar to but greater than those observed in adult subjects.”


Infant circumcision causes severe, persistent pain.


Some infants do not cry because they go into shock from the overwhelming pain of the surgery.
Infants rarely receive anaesthesia or post-operative pain management.


No anesthetic has been found to be safe and totally effective in preventing circumcision pain in infants. [A man circumcised in adulthood will be given the benefit of general anaesthetic, post-operative pain management, choice and informed consent over the fate of his own genital integrity.]


The persistence of specific behavioural changes after circumcision in neonates implies the presence of memory for the incident.
–Taddio A, Katz J, Ilersich AL, et al. Effect of neonatal circumcision on pain response during subsequent routine vaccination. Lancet 1997;349(9052):599-603.


http://www.infocirc.org/facts.htm

Look like dad? Should the baby infant get tattoos like Dad, too, and dye his hair? Should we paint on a beard and mustache? Or teach the kid that 'someone cut off part of dad's penis, isn't that horrifying, but it was a widely accepted practice by naive people strictly for social conventions and isn't it a good thing we didn't cut off part of your penis, son'. Isn't diversity a good thing?

Lilly Ivy wrote:
So in confusion, one of her brothers tried to circumcise himself with a pair of scissors, for sake that he would look more like his dad. If your husband is circumcised, would you really want your child doing that to himself?
Is that any different from a person doing it to him when he's a helpless infant?

Lilly Ivy wrote:
This baby seems calm and collected, plus its a video of him, so you know he's calm. They strap you down for a C-section, but you don't hear women complaining they were forced to do so. They strap them down so they don't kick the doctor while he has sharp instruments around their most sensitive area. They know what they are doing. That's why I'd rather have it done at birth because they have done so many and know exactly what they are doing, unlike when they get older.


The baby's in shock, women opt for C-sections which aren't done on their outer genitals, and doctor's aren't involuntarily cutting off their clitoris, and they are using anesthetic! How is that even comparable?

Use logic; cutting off part of a baby is wrong, wrong, wrong.
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replied January 8th, 2008
Most Diplomatic Poster
i've said this before and i'll say it again. No baby has a penis like it's fathers. If a child is sensitive to his penis being different, that is the fault of the parents. a kid can have different hair, different eyes, different nose, different anything. if they can accept those things, why does the penis have to match? ridiculous!!!
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replied January 8th, 2008
Especially eHealthy
oh so he wont remember the pain that makes it ok?

alrighty Confused


what does it take like an extra 2.5 seconds to pull the forskin back and clean it?
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replied January 8th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
I guess that makes partial birth abortion okay, too.
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replied January 8th, 2008
Especially eHealthy
why does he have to look like his father? im sorry but what happened to teaching individuality and respect for yourself no matter WHAT you look like. and really i doubt when hes 16-17 him and his dad will be compareing penis'.
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replied January 8th, 2008
Especially eHealthy
My kids will be uncut. Last time we had this debate up here (in parenting I think, started by me) I got some really informational responses. Although my husband was resistant at first, I made him read it all and I think he knows now that I am very strongly against circumcision and it won't be happening in our family. This will be a discussion we have again when we decide to have children.

And seriously, can't you just say to your kid, "daddy had surgery on part of his penis, so it looks a little different than yours. Here's how you take care of it" That way, no one takes a scissors to their penis and no one gets infections. I'm perfectly happy cleaning my son's penis until he is old enough to do it himself. Hell, you're gonna be wiping his poopy butt what could be worse than that?
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replied January 8th, 2008
Active User, very eHealthy
I'm for it - a lot of guys probably couldn't be bothered to clean under the foreskin, and many parents are too stupid or embarrassed to teach them how to do it when the kid is young. And I can't remember any man who ever said they remember the pain of their circumcision when they were babies - it's painful, but no one remembers things from infancy. Some boys may never develop a foreskin that retracts properly, and therefore they may be unable to clean it properly. If the parents care enough to address the problem, this will mean embarrassing visits to the doctor so the boy can get his genitals poked and prodded...grown men may not be so embarrassed about this, but a pre-teen or a teenage boy would probably be. Sometimes the foreskin may cause problems that end in circumcision being required when the boy is older, and as someone brought up already, it's definitely no picnic getting circumcised when you're beyond infancy.

Also, if the uncut boy sees that most men (including any male friends) have a cleanly circumcized penis and he's got the weird one, don't you think that's going to make him feel like the odd man out? As has already been pointed out, a member's child already felt that way and attempted a DIY circumcision because he felt like a freak.

And, men who have been circumcised have a much lower chance of contracting HIV than those who are uncut.

The arguments against circumcision are kind of...well...lacking in sense. I know people will whine "But it looks more naturrrrrrallll" - not when most of the male population is already circumcised. Strike one. Others will whine, "It looks more aesthetically pleasing" - that's in the eye of the beholder, and I have found that a lot of women and men find a circumcised penis to look better because that's what everyone is used to seeing. Strike two. They say circumcision is painful - you know what else is painful? Trying to pull back a faulty foreskin, or having a UTI that may have never come about had there been no foreskin. Strike three. Smile I also think that stuff about how circumcision greatly reduces the sensitivity of the penis is just a bunch of crap used to scare people into not getting their male babies cut. I've known quite a few circumcised men who required very little stimulation to achieve orgasm. Besides, how would they know what kind of sensation they may or may not be missing out on if they're circumcised as babies?
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replied January 8th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
ok now women,
Do you like the looks of a uncircumcision penis?
My fisrt husband was not circumcision, my husband now is..
I think I like the circumcision one better.. But that just might be because my x was such a pervert..
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replied January 8th, 2008
Especially eHealthy
meblonde01 wrote:
ok now women,
Do you like the looks of a uncircumcision penis?
My fisrt husband was not circumcision, my husband now is..
I think I like the circumcision one better.. But that just might be because my x was such a pervert..


travis is circumsized
personally i could care less
id love him the same no matter what Very Happy when youi find someone you love and care about you dont care how thier penis looks Very Happy
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replied January 8th, 2008
Extremely eHealthy
the_girlfriend wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
ok now women,
Do you like the looks of a uncircumcision penis?
My fisrt husband was not circumcision, my husband now is..
I think I like the circumcision one better.. But that just might be because my x was such a pervert..


travis is circumsized
personally i could care less
id love him the same no matter what Very Happy when youi find someone you love and care about you dont care how thier penis looks Very Happy


I agree! maybe that's why I like my penis.. Smile I mean his.. Smile
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