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Gout attack after uric acid crystals dissolve

Very Happy

Hi all,

I'm new to these forums & from the UK. A bit of background-i'm 42 (well, will be in April!), male & am very keen on natural/herbal medicine. Potted history-I used to drink, way to much over the last 15 years or so (on a daily basis)-during the last 8 years or so due to depression, money worries, death in family, etc & prior to this my work involved looking after (if that's the right word!) UK holidaymakers in the Med, so drink I'm afraid was endemic with this too!

I've now sorted myself out, rairly drink, money problems sorted out & a new job to start soon! Also, I do cardio/weights at the Gym & am watching what I eat (using the calorie cycling method, average I guess about 1600 cals/day but not too strict!), have lost a few pounds & look younger than I've done in years!

I first suffered from Gout (at the time not knowing what it was-thinking it was a trapped nerve!)about 4 years ago & suppose I've had 6/7 attacks in that time (bearing in mind i was drinking heavily on a daily basis at the time). I only worked out what it was 2 years or so ago & have used celery seed tablets, devils claw, quertecin, vit c, cherries to fairly good effect when an attack came (The severity/length much much shorter than before I took supplements).

So, after getting my self healthy I started watching my weight & bang! After absolutely no alcohol for a few wks & eating healthily/taking the herbal supps I had an attack in my left foot (big toe & other toes)-which I 'killed off' in a few days with the herbals + cherries (& lots of water!) & then straight away in my left knee! Now, initially I thought it was a pulled muscle from the gym (weight machine + had it before but only slight a few wks back)-so did not 'up' the herbals-it was only after 4 days that that familiar 'pain' appeared & I knw it was gout!

Now....what I could not work out is that there was no 'trigger' (ie excess booze) & healthy living for 3 weeks-so most confused to have an attack!

On ploughing through the web I found out that if your uric acid level drops fairly quickly (which I assume it would have done in relation to no alcohol & the herbal tablets) any old uric acid crystals can 'redissolve' (I understand from the web that old crystals are covered up by a protein membrane once the white cells have 'attacked' them?) & push uric acid levels again over the critical level??!

Anyway-this was the most painfull/prolonged attack I've had & can only link it to my 'healthier' lifestyle (( gatheer uric acid crystals build up over many year-also not hereditiry as neither parent had it).

So....need to have agout-free 2008 & as starting a new job in a week (my current attck 90% gone now!) do not want to be taking time off!

I curently take 3 x celery seed tablets daily, 1 x 500mg vit c (+ bioflavenoids), 3 glasses of cider vinegar (2tbs in each glass-after meals-heard it alkalises food & dissovles uric acid crystals?) in warm water, 2 milk thistle tablets daily, 1 multivit+iron, & juice of a lemon (read it stimulates calcium caarbonate production that helps to alkalise the body) on waking in warm water.

I also have at least 4 pints water during the day, a cup of nettle tea as well! I also severely limit the 'risk' foods! I also have 20gm ground flax seeds daily & berry fruit smoothies (blueberries, strawberries, blaccurrents, etc) & always go for the '5 a day' fruit & veg. Also, I rarely eat anything high in purines....I eat home made organic wholemeal bread, eggs, good old english baked beans (!), some dried fruit, organic porridge, lean white fish...etc

I'm just scared that I'll have another big attack soon as more old crystals dissolve!!!

Am i taking the right steps re: the above supplements/food/water?

Does cider vinegar help dissolve old uric acid crystals painlessly? Is the same true for vit c?

I'm hoping that my 'lack of drinking' compared to the past 15-18 years (!) will bring about good changes-hopefully stop the gout too! From my understanding if you drink regularly/daily the body has nochance to excrete the uric acid properly & it consequently settle in the joints/tissues (oh hell....15-18 years worth then!).?

Any advice on my way forward would be great. I so DO NOT want to be on daily drugs(with their side effects!) from the doctor!
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replied January 1st, 2008
Re: Gout Attack After Uric Acid Crystals Dissolve
It could be that this attack is from the crystals dissolving. From what I've read, if the concentration of uric acid decreases below a threshold (about 6 mg/dL, I think) then the body will start "melting" the crystals to bring up the uric acid concentration in the blood. Before it melts them, it needs to "uncover" them and that causes the immune system to notice and attack them -- hence the gout attack. (The drug allopurinol does something similar -- it lowers the uric acid level and often causes a gout attack when you start taking the drug.)

I think I'm undergoing something similar: I recently had an attack that lasted a few days before subsiding. Then I started a baking soda treatment (see which makes the body more alkaline and causes the uric acid in the blood to dissolve and be excreted, lowering the uric acid concentration in the blood. All of a sudden I had another gout attack, which I assume is from the crystals dissolving to compensate for that decreased concentration. This current attack seems to be going away slower than the original attack, so, if I may generalize, I can conclude that gout attacks caused by dissolving crystals last longer than attacks caused by crystals being formed.

Since it's impossible to tell whether an attack is from newly formed crystals or from old crystals dissolving, the only thing I can think of is to take another blood test to measure the uric acid level. (You probably should wait until the current attack subsides because during an attack the UA level measurement is usually too low.)

If it turns out that the UA level is low, that's good, meaning that you are getting rid of those crystals (albeit in a painful way).
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replied January 2nd, 2008
Thanks Stanl!
Hi-yup-cheers for that!

I agree....before i started my new 'non-drinking/moderating' regime (!), about 2 months ago or so I suddenly had a week with absolutley no alcohol & watched what I ate (therefore i guess upsetting the 'status quo' of how my body had been for years before!) & again had an attack-allbeit relatively mild BUT strangely in my left foot & then my knee (again at btime as was not that bad thought the knee thing was a strained ligament from gym!).

Certainly this attack in terms of severity & that it was 2 body parts-one after the other-does see t oquantify, stanl what you say-attacks do seem worse when due to lowered blood uric acid levels!

Would you/anyone else be able to comment re; my cider vinegar (also-here in the UK it's nigh on impossible to get the unpasteurised/bragsss one with the 'mother' -live yeast-bit in it-I know this 'live bit provides additional health benefits BUT assume if just for blood ph altering & dissolvance of crystals a standard 'shop bought' organic, clear cider is ok?)& taking the other supplements I've mentioned & fresh lemon on waking?

I'd be very interested in the baking soda one BUT in the past (we're talking years!) my blood pressure was high-again due to the booze! However, my resting hart rate has definately lowered (machines at gym!) so hope all is ok in this respect.

Thanks for that....anyone else any comments?
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replied June 11th, 2009
Celery seeds+vitc/qertecin-no gout for 1 1/2 years!
FROM BETHBOY! 1 1/2 years on....still taking 3 celery seed tablets a day & 3 high dose vit c tablets+quertecin daily-NO ATTACKS for last 1 1/2 years! Still drinking a bit too much (!) & have not restricted what I eat in any way. So glad I have not had another attack! Works for me! Now I'm bethboy1 as old e-mail a/c closed!
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replied January 3rd, 2010
cider vinegar, with mother can be had from a number of farms/shops ect. Somerset. Find them on the web as I did.
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replied January 5th, 2010
Go to Posted: "second gout attack" or "gout and baking soda" then look under reply "gouthelp" this is my remedy and I've been gout free for over 2 years and I drink alot more than the average person, I eat red meat, fish, protein drinks, sometimes fast foods, but not very often. Read both of them, there the same just worded differently. I've done everything and this remedy works great. Remember there are no cures just remedies. Good Luck.
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replied January 20th, 2010
Good advice as I thought my gout was right down until my left ankle swelled & the pain came back for 3 days--no walking after the first day. Voltaren killed the pain a bit? but hate taking them 50ml. Eating cherries/strawbs in NZ & don't drink but will try the cidar vinegar / selery seeds and baking soda and see how it goes. Thanks everyone. Tam
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