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My Struggle With Religion (Page 2)


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December 5th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
redeme wrote:
wow, can i just say eiri you nailed that on the head.

guest, while your post did have some very interesting views, you still have to first believe in god to take any of it on board. You need a reality check if your comparing a solid object like a table or car to "God", which seems to be the whole general jist of your post.

SCIENCE has proved time and time again that the right conditions and chemicals or substances something can grow from nothing or have a reaction in a split second. could this not be possible for the universe also? and can you speak universally for the "creator" when youve never experienced god from any part of the universe accept for earth? yet your willing to make claims that he created the earth and all nature forgeting that we dont even know how far the universe goes and the earth is only a tiny pinpoint of possibly one of the smallest galaxys in the universe.


how did the chemicals and substances get there? They did grow from nothing.. There had to be something there to grow from.. How did they get there?
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replied December 5th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
meblonde01 wrote:
redeme wrote:
wow, can i just say eiri you nailed that on the head.

guest, while your post did have some very interesting views, you still have to first believe in god to take any of it on board. You need a reality check if your comparing a solid object like a table or car to "God", which seems to be the whole general jist of your post.

SCIENCE has proved time and time again that the right conditions and chemicals or substances something can grow from nothing or have a reaction in a split second. could this not be possible for the universe also? and can you speak universally for the "creator" when youve never experienced god from any part of the universe accept for earth? yet your willing to make claims that he created the earth and all nature forgeting that we dont even know how far the universe goes and the earth is only a tiny pinpoint of possibly one of the smallest galaxys in the universe.


how did the chemicals and substances get there? They did grow from nothing.. There had to be something there to grow from.. How did they get there?


Which chemicals and substances? The answer matters.
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replied December 5th, 2007
Active User, very eHealthy
Eiri can i continue this discussion with you personally via private messaging?
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replied December 5th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
I suppose so Smile
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replied December 6th, 2007
Experienced User
"how did the chemicals and substances get there? They did grow from nothing.. There had to be something there to grow from.. How did they get there?"

is that a serious question? did you pass science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions


and guest your soft, no reply to that just like i thought. your so unwilling to even consider the possibilitys of a universal creation without some kind of big invisible force in the "heavens".. ignorent fool
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replied December 6th, 2007
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Eiri wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
redeme wrote:
wow, can i just say eiri you nailed that on the head.

guest, while your post did have some very interesting views, you still have to first believe in god to take any of it on board. You need a reality check if your comparing a solid object like a table or car to "God", which seems to be the whole general jist of your post.

SCIENCE has proved time and time again that the right conditions and chemicals or substances something can grow from nothing or have a reaction in a split second. could this not be possible for the universe also? and can you speak universally for the "creator" when youve never experienced god from any part of the universe accept for earth? yet your willing to make claims that he created the earth and all nature forgeting that we dont even know how far the universe goes and the earth is only a tiny pinpoint of possibly one of the smallest galaxys in the universe.


how did the chemicals and substances get there? They did grow from nothing.. There had to be something there to grow from.. How did they get there?


Which chemicals and substances? The answer matters.


the chemicals and substances that Redme is talking about..
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replied December 6th, 2007
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redeme wrote:
"how did the chemicals and substances get there? They did grow from nothing.. There had to be something there to grow from.. How did they get there?"

is that a serious question? did you pass science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions


and guest your soft, no reply to that just like i thought. your so unwilling
to even consider the possibilitys of a universal creation without some kind of big invisible force in the "heavens".. ignorent fool


Name calling is not necessary, it shows your lack of adult IQ.. But in life have known that nothing come from nothing! Even if there is vapor.. it had to get there some how! Things just don't happen out of the clear blue!
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replied December 6th, 2007
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I believe in a higher power and supernatural things, but I think that only goes so far. Meaning, no, there isn't a God who just creates things. I definitely believe human beings evolved somehow. You can put prokaryotic cells in a petri dish and they can sit forever and then somehow multiply. Scientists do it all the time. So who knows. I just know we didn't *poof* come into existence all magical like. That's very silly to me.

I used to struggle with it all the time. Now I just figure that if no one knows for 100% sure, then it wasn't meant to be known as a fact and we'll find out later. Enjoy the ride.
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replied December 6th, 2007
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Jude-Love wrote:
I believe in a higher power and supernatural things, but I think that only goes so far. Meaning, no, there isn't a God who just creates things. I definitely believe human beings evolved somehow. You can put prokaryotic cells in a petri dish and they can sit forever and then somehow multiply. Scientists do it all the time. So who knows. I just know we didn't *poof* come into existence all magical like. That's very silly to me.

I used to struggle with it all the time. Now I just figure that if no one knows for 100% sure, then it wasn't meant to be known as a fact and we'll find out later. Enjoy the ride.


Good point.. I don't think we just happened out a a big boom.. But no one is 100% sure of anything! And like you said we will all find out later.. baffle
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replied December 6th, 2007
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redeme wrote:
"how did the chemicals and substances get there? They did grow from nothing.. There had to be something there to grow from.. How did they get there?"

is that a serious question? did you pass science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions


and guest your soft, no reply to that just like i thought. your so unwilling to even consider the possibilitys of a universal creation without some kind of big invisible force in the "heavens".. ignorent fool


No insulting anyone on my thread.
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replied December 6th, 2007
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meblonde01 wrote:
Eiri wrote:

Which chemicals and substances? The answer matters.


the chemicals and substances that Redme is talking about..

Again: Do you mean the ones that were already on earth? Or do you mean the elements of the universe at the time of the big bang? I can answer one of those questions; the other I cannot.
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replied December 6th, 2007
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meblonde01 wrote:
redeme wrote:
"how did the chemicals and substances get there? They did grow from nothing.. There had to be something there to grow from.. How did they get there?"

is that a serious question? did you pass science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions


and guest your soft, no reply to that just like i thought. your so unwilling
to even consider the possibilitys of a universal creation without some kind of big invisible force in the "heavens".. ignorent fool


Name calling is not necessary, it shows your lack of adult IQ.. But in life have known that nothing come from nothing! Even if there is vapor.. it had to get there some how! Things just don't happen out of the clear blue!

You are correct, life itself did NOT come out of nothing. There were proteins floating around in the primitive oceans; there were many elements, and there was electricity. Scientists have actually done this to a certain level: They filled a large jar (air tight) with liquids and gases with minerals and elements present on primordial earth. Then they charged it with electricity equivalent to a lightning strike. Primitive proteins formed: The building-blocks of life. So it is 100% possible and HAPPENED.
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replied December 6th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
Jude-Love wrote:
I believe in a higher power and supernatural things, but I think that only goes so far. Meaning, no, there isn't a God who just creates things. I definitely believe human beings evolved somehow. You can put prokaryotic cells in a petri dish and they can sit forever and then somehow multiply. Scientists do it all the time. So who knows. I just know we didn't *poof* come into existence all magical like. That's very silly to me.

I used to struggle with it all the time. Now I just figure that if no one knows for 100% sure, then it wasn't meant to be known as a fact and we'll find out later. Enjoy the ride.

Evolution of life of earth is fairly easy to understand (if a bit tedious). You sound like you've got the basics down. As for the big bang? I'm certain it happened since all evidence currently points that way.

I'd like to ask anyone who does not believe in the big bang:
How do you explain the fact that all observations tell us that our universe was once contained in one tiny point, yet now is not? AND the fact that our universe is now and always has been expanding? Does it not make logical sense that out universe exploded into existence? I am not asking what CAUSED the big bang. I'm asking if you believe the universe exploded into existence.
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replied December 6th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
Eiri wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
redeme wrote:
"how did the chemicals and substances get there? They did grow from nothing.. There had to be something there to grow from.. How did they get there?"

is that a serious question? did you pass science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions


and guest your soft, no reply to that just like i thought. your so unwilling
to even consider the possibilitys of a universal creation without some kind of big invisible force in the "heavens".. ignorent fool


Name calling is not necessary, it shows your lack of adult IQ.. But in life have known that nothing come from nothing! Even if there is vapor.. it had to get there some how! Things just don't happen out of the clear blue!

You are correct, life itself did NOT come out of nothing. There were proteins floating around in the primitive oceans; there were many elements, and there was electricity. Scientists have actually done this to a certain level: They filled a large jar (air tight) with liquids and gases with minerals and elements present on primordial earth. Then they charged it with electricity equivalent to a lightning strike. Primitive proteins formed: The building-blocks of life. So it is 100% possible and HAPPENED.


Eiri, I still don't understand. I know that things are formed from elements from the oceans. ETC. But how did it all get there?
Something had to first be there to get the earth! To get the Oceans, to get the elements for the big bang for elvulation to start. That's the part I don't understand. How did it all get there? I know they can take a jar and put liguids in it and gases and minerals. I'm not questioning any of that. I want to know how the elements on earth got to earth.. The elements that made Earth. How did they get there? And I don't think there is a solid answer.. That is why I keep going back too... "something had to come from somewhere to start it all" I am not aruging I am questioning.. Confused
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replied December 6th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
The elements got to earth when our planet formed. Our solar system formed as a whole from the remnants of a possible supernova or a small nebula. I'll go find a site to explain it in more detail for you Smile Trust me; our planet and the solar system and our galaxy did NOT poof out of nowhere. They are the products of billions of years of development. The history of the human race doesn't start with Earth; it starts at the big bang!!

From NASA: http://science.hq.nasa.gov/solar_system/sc ience/formation.html
Quote:
Our Solar System began as a rotating cloud of gas and dust about 4.6 billion years ago. Something, perhaps a shockwave from a nearby supernove, caused that cloud to begin to coalesce. Smaller particles clumped together into increasingly larger objects, with the greatest density in the center. The spinning motion caused the cloud to flatten into a pancake called an accretion disk.

Over millions of years, the center of this disk accumulated mass, and as the mass increased, so did the temperature. Eventually, the core reached a critical point when it ignited – nuclear fusion began. The Sun was born.

Meanwhile the disk continued to spin, containing all of the gas and dust that hadn't been sucked into the Sun. Within this material were the building blocks of every bit of matter we have on Earth today, including minerals, water and organic molecules like methane. The density of material was greatest at the middle of the disk. Dust and pebble-sized objects collided into larger and larger clumps. Eventually these clumps became the terrestrial planets: Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars.

The terrestrial planets formed at about the same time, in the same general region of space, and experienced similar forces and processes during their development. Yet today they are different in very fundamental ways. What did our neighbor planets experience to result in their vastly different atmospheres, and what are the implications for our home planet? Ongoing research like the MESSENGER mission to Mercury will help to answer this question.

Farther from the Sun, it was cool enough that water could freeze. Tiny chunks of ice collided, swept up gas and dust, and became the gas giants: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. Uranus and Neptune, being farther from the dense center of the disk, ended up smaller.

Beyond Neptune, matter got scarce, and the objects stayed small. These distant regions are known as the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud. Our picture of the Solar System continues to expand as we look deeper into these regions and find objects like Sedna, the most distant object of the Solar System.
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replied December 6th, 2007
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Eiri wrote:
The elements got to earth when our planet formed. Our solar system formed as a whole from the remnants of a possible supernova or a small nebula. I'll go find a site to explain it in more detail for you Smile Trust me; our planet and the solar system and our galaxy did NOT poof out of nowhere. They are the products of billions of years of development. The history of the human race doesn't start with Earth; it starts at the big bang!!

From NASA: http://science.hq.nasa.gov/solar_system/sc ience/formation.html
Quote:
Our Solar System began as a rotating cloud of gas and dust about 4.6 billion years ago. Something, perhaps a shockwave from a nearby supernove, caused that cloud to begin to coalesce. Smaller particles clumped together into increasingly larger objects, with the greatest density in the center. The spinning motion caused the cloud to flatten into a pancake called an accretion disk.

Over millions of years, the center of this disk accumulated mass, and as the mass increased, so did the temperature. Eventually, the core reached a critical point when it ignited – nuclear fusion began. The Sun was born.

Meanwhile the disk continued to spin, containing all of the gas and dust that hadn't been sucked into the Sun. Within this material were the building blocks of every bit of matter we have on Earth today, including minerals, water and organic molecules like methane. The density of material was greatest at the middle of the disk. Dust and pebble-sized objects collided into larger and larger clumps. Eventually these clumps became the terrestrial planets: Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars.

The terrestrial planets formed at about the same time, in the same general region of space, and experienced similar forces and processes during their development. Yet today they are different in very fundamental ways. What did our neighbor planets experience to result in their vastly different atmospheres, and what are the implications for our home planet? Ongoing research like the MESSENGER mission to Mercury will help to answer this question.

Farther from the Sun, it was cool enough that water could freeze. Tiny chunks of ice collided, swept up gas and dust, and became the gas giants: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. Uranus and Neptune, being farther from the dense center of the disk, ended up smaller.

Beyond Neptune, matter got scarce, and the objects stayed small. These distant regions are known as the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud. Our picture of the Solar System continues to expand as we look deeper into these regions and find objects like Sedna, the most distant object of the Solar System.


ok How did
Our Solar System began as a rotating cloud of gas and dust about 4.6 billion years ago.

Get there?
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replied December 6th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
How did it begin as a rotating ball of gas? When the big bang occurred, tons of materials were strewn into the expanding space. These materials (because of the laws of gravity) began clumping together. Sometimes they formed new elements; other times they just formed shapeless clouds. It takes the influence of a secondary explosion like the one mentioned in the article to disturb the movement enough to cause organized rotation - again, all of this is explainable mathematically; it's not just randomness.

It's not just "explosions make things rotate" it's "The force of the explosion causes the gravity of the neutral system to pull the matter into a rotating pattern and then centrifugal forces compress the matter," etc etc. Scientists aren't just speculating; for any of this to be taken seriously they have to be able to prove it with mathematical models!

That's why I trust science. They are constantly experimenting and trying to disprove current theories; in doing so they often strengthen the good theories and tear down weak ones, leaving way for new, better theories to take their place.
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replied December 6th, 2007
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Eiri wrote:
How did it begin as a rotating ball of gas? When the big bang occurred, tons of materials were strewn into the expanding space. These materials (because of the laws of gravity) began clumping together. Sometimes they formed new elements; other times they just formed shapeless clouds. It takes the influence of a secondary explosion like the one mentioned in the article to disturb the movement enough to cause organized rotation - again, all of this is explainable mathematically; it's not just randomness.

It's not just "explosions make things rotate" it's "The force of the explosion causes the gravity of the neutral system to pull the matter into a rotating pattern and then centrifugal forces compress the matter," etc etc. Scientists aren't just speculating; for any of this to be taken seriously they have to be able to prove it with mathematical models!

That's why I trust science. They are constantly experimenting and trying to disprove current theories; in doing so they often strengthen the good theories and tear down weak ones, leaving way for new, better theories to take their place.


No, My question is. how did the gas and dust get there to tumble?
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replied December 6th, 2007
Active User, very eHealthy
I was misunderstood. When I said I didn't believe we just *poof*ed into existence, I meant I don't think God just made us. I'm not as familiar with the Big Bang as I used to be, but I don't not believe it.

sorry!
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replied December 6th, 2007
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Eiri wrote:
How did it begin as a rotating ball of gas? When the big bang occurred, tons of materials were strewn into the expanding space. These materials (because of the laws of gravity) began clumping together. Sometimes they formed new elements; other times they just formed shapeless clouds. It takes the influence of a secondary explosion like the one mentioned in the article to disturb the movement enough to cause organized rotation - again, all of this is explainable mathematically; it's not just randomness.

It's not just "explosions make things rotate" it's "The force of the explosion causes the gravity of the neutral system to pull the matter into a rotating pattern and then centrifugal forces compress the matter," etc etc. Scientists aren't just speculating; for any of this to be taken seriously they have to be able to prove it with mathematical models!

That's why I trust science. They are constantly experimenting and trying to disprove current theories; in doing so they often strengthen the good theories and tear down weak ones, leaving way for new, better theories to take their place.


never mind this question..
No, My question is. how did the gas and dust get there to tumble?
you awnsered it.
But my question is way befor the big bang.. How did "whatever" get there to make the big bang?

That is the part I don't understand.
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