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Domestic Violence Towards Children (Page 1)

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In several recent threads many of you have posted your disgust at adults striking other adults; namely significant others in physical arguments.

There have been some great comments about how this is unacceptable.

So how far do your opinions go?

Let's talk about hitting children...

Is it ever right?
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replied September 7th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
i will never spank my child
i dont know i just dont think it solves anything
i was never spanked as a kid
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replied September 7th, 2007
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I was spanked.

I came out ok.

I am not going to try and plan on spanking my kids. We'll see how that goes or if I change my mind by the time I actually have kids.

But otherwise, to answer the question,

yes! Hit kids all you want!

(I hope that was obvious sarcasm)
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replied September 7th, 2007
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Georgia59 wrote:
I was spanked.

I came out ok.

I am not going to try and plan on spanking my kids. We'll see how that goes or if I change my mind by the time I actually have kids.

But otherwise, to answer the question,

yes! Hit kids all you want!

(I hope that was obvious sarcasm)


lol yeah its hard to say how you are going to deal with your kids
when my time comes ill figure something out lol
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replied September 7th, 2007
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Honestly, in my nice, idealistic, child-development studying mind I think it's wrong and hurts kids more than it helps. So I don't want to do it.

however- like I said, I was spanked. In fact, I'm pretty sure my parents often spanked me because they were angry and I suspect that it had nothing to do with punishing me.

But I came out just fine. I'm really close to my parents. I love them. I think they're doing a great job raising my little brothers. I would trust them with my children. If I decided spanking was not the way to go, I would tell them and trust that they wouldn't spank my children.

So I don't think it's great, but I don't think it's detrimental either.
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replied September 7th, 2007
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I've Already Said I All Can Say On This Issue.
Here is a collection of every post I have made on this issue. I didn't edit out anything to make myself sound "better". I left in the fact that humiliation is needed for some children. I'm not trying to impress anyone with this. I've simply said all I can say. It is a touchy issue for me, and one I don't like getting in to. It makes me angry.

Eiri wrote:
I agree that under special circumstances, spanking is acceptable.

I was spanked... once or twice as a child, and I honestly believe I deserved it. I don't remember what I did, but boy, was it bad, and I knew spanking was the punishment! I did it anyway... and my parents followed through on their threat.

I think that is the key. If you say you're gonna do it, then the very first time the child warrants a spanking, do it. Then the child knows you're serious about it, and they'll take all other "lesser" punishments way more seriously too. They'll behave because they know that if they don't, the parent isn't going to wuss out: they will deliver the punishment, whether it's sitting in the corner or having the car pulled over, etc.

Also, you need a hefty dose of "this is why I am punishing you". Totally. A child who understands is a child who will learn from their mistakes.


Eiri wrote:

But for some reason, I turned out a complete pacifist, despite being spanked a total of twice my entire youth.

Spanking is the ultimate punishment. Pain works. No, it's not "nice". But a well behaved child who knows what they did to deserve the punishment is going to be a well behaved, well adjusted child, as opposed to a child who knows they can get away with anything and all that's going to happen is that they have to sit in a corner.


Eiri wrote:
Humiliation is what is needed for some children to behave. No, it's not "Nice", but some kids just do not respond to a soft touch. Are you going to let that child walk all over you? Some children just do not respond to "sit in the corner" and they will disobey because they know that there is no other punishment that can happen to them. They've seen the worst, and it is sitting in a chair. So what? It's not a strong enough punishment for them. They need something harsher.

Never spank in public. It is between the parent and the child. It reaffirms the parent as the one in charge. Yes, the parent is bigger, and that means the child needs to listen to them. If they don't, there are consequences.

Mistakes and breaking the rules later in life can result in punishment much worse than a spank. Learning that being disobedient can hurt you is an important lesson.

For some reason, I realized even at the young age I was spanked, that what I had done was completely inexcusable. if I was being spanked for it, then it was something I never, ever should have done and never, ever should do again, unless I'm capable of handling the consequences.


Eiri wrote:
I think what I keep hearing from the anti-spankers is a lack of understanding as to what situations the child is spanked in.

As someone else pointed out, spanking is not for when a child simply misbehaves, or just acts out, or only throws their toys across the room.

Spanking is for when the child has done something severely wrong that they already knew they should not have done. If the child bites another child and draws blood for instance. Or, in the other case, when the child nearly ran into the street and almost got run over. Beating up an animal is a spankable offense in my opinion. Again, spanking is used as punishment only when the "crime" was severe, and the child already knew they should not have been doing it.

Spanking when the child does something they didn't know was bad isn't as effective, such as if it's the first time the child has ever bit someone and you never actually specified that biting is bad. Naughty chair is fine in that case. But once you have told them that biting is very very bad, and that they should never bite someone again, then if they do it again, spank them. Strong punishment for a severe offense. What are you going to do? Just coddle the child? I'm sorry but if a child knew they could get away with physically harming another child and wouldn't suffer physical pain themselves, they'd do it.


Eiri wrote:
I guess as a child I understood the concept that the person making the rules is the person who has the right to punish me, and I don't know... I just never felt abused when I was spanked. I was so young too, I don't really even remember it happening. But the fear of "obey parents" was firmly etched in my brain. I also knew that I was being spanked because I had failed to follow very important rules, and thus I was disappointing my parents, and I deserved punishment. Disappointing my parents is one of my greatest fears to this day.

I guess the point is... if the child understand and knows they deserve the spanking, it works. I guess if the child doesn't understand that, then they may view it as abuse.


Eiri wrote:
I respect my parents "despite" the fact that they spanked me. I never thought less of them or hated them for doing it. I never thought they were weak or mean or anything like that. In fact, spanking made me respect them as authority figures.

I think kids do need to be a little bit fearful of their parents. I loved them to death and ran to them whenever I was scared or had a boo boo or a bad dream... But I also knew not to disobey. I knew why I shouldn't disobey: doing bad things had consequences like a broken lamp, or I could fall and get hurt, or get run over and die. if I did something bad like that, I deserved punishment. If it's a severe no-no, then spanking is in order. I was only ever spanked twice.

Spanking was not done to "solve" anything. It was punishment, plain and simple. It was not meant to cause permanent damage to me and it never did. My bottom stung for a few minutes and that was that. I am not psychologically scarred. I am not violent. Spanking as a punishment and actual "hitting" were two very different things, and actual hitting was extremely against the rules. I have difficulty hitting people to this day because it was ingrained into my head to never hit. In my brain, spanking does not equal hitting.

Maybe you would spank your child out of frustration or a lack of control, but my parents certainly didn't. Perhaps spanking is a form of punishment that only some parents are capable of using properly.

Spanking is not physical abuse. I never once bruised from it and I never had a long-term mark from it. I was never afraid to sit down because my bottom was in severe pain. Never. My parents spanked me, they didn't hurt me. There's a difference.

My parents spanked me when I ignored the rules and consequences that I had already been informed of. I don't remember why I got spanked either time, but I do know from their parenting style that I had been informed of why I should not do the bad activity, why it was bad, what would happen if I did it (such as getting run over), and the punishment if I did do it. I didn't do these bad things obliviously. I can understand spanking being bad if a parent spanks a child that unknowingly did something wrong, or did something wrong without being told the consequences.

I was, as I said, taught that hitting was very very wrong. Spanking and hitting are two different things. When you hit someone, you intend harm, and that's it. When a good parent spanks, he is not intending to cause the child harm. I guess it's something that not every person can comprehend. I was spanked when I refused to learn. When I purpously did something against the rules that I knew was very, very bad. What, should we not jail killers now? Jail is punishment. So is spanking. It's very efficient punishment that gets through to the child. You should not have to spank often if you are a good parent. If you're spanking a lot, then you're doing something wrong. Either you're spanking for trivial things (which is wrong), or your child has a behavioral problem that needs to be dealt with professionally.

I'm sorry, but if I, a child, have been informed of something I shouldn't do, and I have been told why not to do it, and why it's bad, and what will happen if I do it, then I am the problem. It was my choice to disobey. It's not the truck's fault that I ran out into traffic. You can't blame the swimming pool because I chose to run alongside it and slipped and fell in it.

I was taught to behave. That doesn't mean I was always an angel. I still did stupid stuff I shouldn't have done, even though I knew it was bad and I knew why it was bad.

I wasn't "scared" to do the bad activity while my parents were around because I knew I'd get spanked. I was scared to do the activity because of the other consequences. Like, I don't know... dying. Falling off a building. Getting kidnapped. Being poisoned to death. Drowning... there are a lot more reasons to be scared to do something than having my dad smack my butt.

I never repeated the activities I got spanked for. Ever. I think one of them was for biting. I never bit anyone ever again.

If you have an older child who is disobeying severely enough that you would spank a younger child for it, then the older child has some deeper issue that needs professional help.
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replied September 7th, 2007
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My child is too young to really understand discipline, so I can't say for sure what we'll do with her. But I'm very much planning not to spank her. We're going to try the time-out method (sitting still in one place for as many minutes as the child's age in years, if the child moves the clock resets).

I might resort to a light hand-smack if she does something dangerous like reaches for the stove, but not hard enough to hurt her - just to get her attention so she'll be listening when I say "NO, that is HOT".

But again, she's not old enough, so I can't say for sure what we'll end up doing.
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replied September 7th, 2007
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How very interesting that everyone instantly translated "hitting kids" into "spanking" yet I had a hard time getting this across in the Parent Debate forum a few months ago.

How also interesting that those adamantly opposed to domestic violence between adults think that, 'well, I don't intend to do this, but it might happen and it'll be okay'.

Eiri, why does this subject bug you so much? Perhaps because your incongruency in beliefs are not reconciled, or you don't like me showing you how what your parents did to you, spanking you, was wrong and actually harmful behavior? Many children have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that their godlike parents made mistakes. You can forgive your parents, especially if they did not know better, but that does not give anyone the green light now that they know better to go ahead and smack their kids.
Eiri, I hope that you understand I do not say these things in spite or sarcasm or anything; just pure sincerity and I hope you don't take offense.
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replied September 7th, 2007
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No, I firmly believe spanking is fine, and so it PISSES ME OFF when people are stupid and assume my parents were brutish retards who physically abused me.




That's what pisses me off.
My parents HAVE made mistakes; for god's sake my mother had unprotected sex and became pregnant and had to abort, and my dad did a few drugs in his time. So did my mother for that matter.

But as far as parenting goes, I could not have asked for better parents. Yes, I idolize them. I love them. And I will carry on in their image because I believe it was right to spank.

Let me put this in small words so you will understand.

Proper Spanking DOES NOT EQUAL SMACKING/BEATING/SLAPPING OR ABUSE.

I was NEVER hit on my face, arm, torso, leg, shoulder, etc. I was never smacked upside the head or slapped across the face. I was spanked. A hand hit my clothed butt. And I deserved it.
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replied September 7th, 2007
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same.
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replied September 8th, 2007
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Eiri wrote:
No, I firmly believe spanking is fine, and so it PISSES ME OFF when people are stupid and assume my parents were brutish retards who physically abused me.




That's what pisses me off.
My parents HAVE made mistakes; for god's sake my mother had unprotected sex and became pregnant and had to abort, and my dad did a few drugs in his time. So did my mother for that matter.

But as far as parenting goes, I could not have asked for better parents. Yes, I idolize them. I love them. And I will carry on in their image because I believe it was right to spank.

Let me put this in small words so you will understand.

Proper Spanking DOES NOT EQUAL SMACKING/BEATING/SLAPPING OR ABUSE.

I was NEVER hit on my face, arm, torso, leg, shoulder, etc. I was never smacked upside the head or slapped across the face. I was spanked. A hand hit my clothed butt. And I deserved it.


No reason to be so defensive...geesh. I didn't insinuate that your parents were brutes who beat you. Just people who made mistakes and hit you. You jumped on the spanking = hitting bandwagon like everyone else. Obviously, you're very touchy about the subject so something about it gets your goat and I didn't know why.

Let me put this in small words so you will understand:

NO REASON TO BE SO DEFENSIVE. I WAS JUST ASKING A QUESTION.

I made it clear that I didn't mean anything nasty and was sincerely trying to understand why you were so touchy about this subject.

Why are you so nasty when someone doesn't understand your point of view? Is that how you treat people in real life? Confused

P.S. Your comment, "it is right to spank" is the same thing as "it is right to hit" by your own admission. I still cannot get a clear answer why hitting kids is bloody fine but hitting adults is absolutely out of the question. Are you going to spank your spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend if they get out of line? Why not, eh?
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replied September 8th, 2007
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HcoBrunette06 wrote:
same.


Do you spank your bf when gets out of line? Wink
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replied September 8th, 2007
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Birch Is Prepared For a Noose
Here's what I think:

People think it's okay to spank/hit their kids because:

A. Kids can't hit you back
B. They are small and aren't viewed as people in the same capacity as an adult is
C. A lot of leeway is given because of the frustration felt by parents and therefore they are forgiven for striking their children (I have no doubt parents get upset at their kids and find the easiest recourse is to strike out at them)
D. There is this odd forgiveness given to people when they hit members of their own family, versus other adults or children not related to them
E. Their parents hit them, and they fail to recognize their parent's shortcomings, so they justify their actions with "my parents did it and I'm fine so it must be okay"
F. They fail to understand the emotional damage done to children when they are hit by someone who loves them
G. They ignore all common sense that says "hitting people is wrong" by classifying children as "not people".

Don't hang me for stating my opinions...obviously I have issues with hitting kids. Very Happy
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replied September 8th, 2007
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You all should know by now that if this world wants you to smack your child around you will do so and then fully understand why others have done it. You see, smacking your children is a magical occurrence that happens to you, not the other way around. How many times has someone said, especially when they are young that "I would never do that" or "that will never happen to me". My point is the more that painful and unjust things happen to you and depending on just how great the pain and injustice is the more capable you will be of doing crazy horrible crap.

I could be wrong though, hmmmm.
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replied September 8th, 2007
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agathe wrote:
You all should know by now that if this world wants you to smack your child around you will do so and then fully understand why others have done it. You see, smacking your children is a magical occurrence that happens to you, not the other way around. How many times has someone said, especially when they are young that "I would never do that" or "that will never happen to me". My point is the more that painful and unjust things happen to you and depending on just how great the pain and injustice is the more capable you will be of doing crazy horrible crap.

I could be wrong though, hmmmm.


Agathe, you are my new hero. I understand you completely and absolutely agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
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replied September 8th, 2007
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Birch wrote:
Eiri wrote:
No, I firmly believe spanking is fine, and so it PISSES ME OFF when people are stupid and assume my parents were brutish retards who physically abused me.




That's what pisses me off.
My parents HAVE made mistakes; for god's sake my mother had unprotected sex and became pregnant and had to abort, and my dad did a few drugs in his time. So did my mother for that matter.

But as far as parenting goes, I could not have asked for better parents. Yes, I idolize them. I love them. And I will carry on in their image because I believe it was right to spank.

Let me put this in small words so you will understand.

Proper Spanking DOES NOT EQUAL SMACKING/BEATING/SLAPPING OR ABUSE.

I was NEVER hit on my face, arm, torso, leg, shoulder, etc. I was never smacked upside the head or slapped across the face. I was spanked. A hand hit my clothed butt. And I deserved it.


No reason to be so defensive...geesh. I didn't insinuate that your parents were brutes who beat you. Just people who made mistakes and hit you. You jumped on the spanking = hitting bandwagon like everyone else. Obviously, you're very touchy about the subject so something about it gets your goat and I didn't know why.

Let me put this in small words so you will understand:

NO REASON TO BE SO DEFENSIVE. I WAS JUST ASKING A QUESTION.

I made it clear that I didn't mean anything nasty and was sincerely trying to understand why you were so touchy about this subject.

Why are you so nasty when someone doesn't understand your point of view? Is that how you treat people in real life? Confused

P.S. Your comment, "it is right to spank" is the same thing as "it is right to hit" by your own admission. I still cannot get a clear answer why hitting kids is bloody fine but hitting adults is absolutely out of the question. Are you going to spank your spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend if they get out of line? Why not, eh?


It's an issue I defend because saying spanking is bad is directly insulting my parents! Maybe you'll think about that next time before telling someone "You need to forgive your parents for making mistakes and (implied) ABUSING YOU as a child."

Why is spanking okay?

Because spanking is not hitting.
Just like abortion is not murder.
And a fetus is not a born baby.

How in the world can you make the distinction in the abortion debate, but here, you're as close-minded as a pro-lifer? I don't get it.

I said I didn't want to debate this and I'm not going to.

I'm sorry you do not understand spanking, what it is, how it works, and how it is DIFFERENT from hitting! But I'm never going to be able to explain it to you. You're set in your mind that spanking = abuse just like pro-lifers think that abortion = murder. I can't change that.

So I'm going to ask this of you: Stop insulting my parents by insinuating I was abused as a child. Stop saying I was hit, because I wasn't.

YOU are the one saying "Why is it okay to spank a child but not hit an adult" so YOU are the one who made the direct corrolation between hitting and spanking. YOU implied it was abuse, and equivalent to smacking/slapping/hitting/punching.

I'm done. I have nothing else to say. You know my opinion on spanking and it's not going to change. I hope I never have to spank my child, just like most women hope they never have to abort and fathers hope their son never goes to jail. But if the son breaks the law as an adult, he should go to jail. If a woman becomes unwantedly pregnant, she will abort. And if my child does something VERY bad that s/he knows is against the rules for very good reasons, I will spank them.
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replied September 8th, 2007
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The very title of this topic is misleading.

Yes, ACTUAL domestic violence towards children is horrible. Actually hitting them, punching/smacking/slapping/kicking etc IS bad.

Spanking is none of the above when done properly.
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replied September 8th, 2007
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there's a big difference between hitting your children out of anger and spanking them with the intention of punishing them.

Perhaps, yes, spanking is a socially accepted form of abuse. I say that with a lot of caution. But honestly, people have been spanked for decades. And most people who have been spanked have none of the after effects from abuse.

Birch, I am assuming you were never spanked. Do you know someone who was and was totally hurt by it? I don't know anyone who is as adamantly opposed to it as you are. I'm just wondering why.

Like I said, in theory, I understand why it could be a bad thing and why spanking isn't the best form of punishment. So I won't plan on doing it. But I really don't think it's detrimental to children in any way unless it's done with the intention of hurting.
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replied September 8th, 2007
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A natural redhead indeed. Wink

This is what Alice Miller and other psychologists talk about. People become illogical and irrational when the mere mention that their parents hit them comes up. And they justify their parent's actions by repeating them with their own children and believing that "I deserved it".

The ad hominem attacks are really beneath you, too. Confused

I am sorry you are unable to distance yourself from your own experiences and discuss this calmly and rationally as was my intent. I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles.

------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------

Anyone else, can you explain how spanking is not hitting? And then, can you explain how it is not domestic violence? I would love to read what people feel on it.
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replied September 8th, 2007
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Georgia59 wrote:
there's a big difference between hitting your children out of anger and spanking them with the intention of punishing them.


Could you please expound s'more?

Georgia59 wrote:
Perhaps, yes, spanking is a socially accepted form of abuse. I say that with a lot of caution. But honestly, people have been spanked for decades. And most people who have been spanked have none of the after effects from abuse.


I agree with your first sentence here.

I would encourage you to consider that since spanking may be a socially accepted form of abuse, and has gone on for decades, that we may not be aware of the damage that it causes individuals simply because it isn't considered to be abusive.

We are only beginnning to understand the longterm effects of food additives. We've been universally eating them for decades, so they can't be harmful, right?

Georgia59 wrote:
Birch, I am assuming you were never spanked. Do you know someone who was and was totally hurt by it? I don't know anyone who is as adamantly opposed to it as you are. I'm just wondering why.


That is very interesting you would assume that. Actually, I was hit often with all kinds of implements by abusive parents, and I was also emotionally abused/manipulated/humiliated/controlled/y ou name it. I have not had contact with my parents for years. I understand that my experiences may be considered 'extreme' by others who were occasionally hit on their bottoms. Anyways, as a result of my experiences i began to read and study what abuse is, what is does, etc. Much of what I've read on spanking is unpopular...perhaps because of the psychological blocks people have regarding their godlike parents. You study psychology, right? What do you think?

Georgia59 wrote:
Like I said, in theory, I understand why it could be a bad thing and why spanking isn't the best form of punishment. So I won't plan on doing it. But I really don't think it's detrimental to children in any way unless it's done with the intention of hurting.


Could you please explain s'more on the intent versus the effect?
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