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Why Does the West Accept Homosexuality? (Page 5)


September 20th, 2007
Experienced User
[quote="UCanQuit"]Think about the bumper sticker. "What would Jesus do?" People don't really think to deeply about that.

If Jesus met a homosexual that was kind to his fellow man, caring to the people around him and alwaus willing to lend a hand to the less fortunate.

Do you think that Jesus would say to him " You're a very caring person. You love the people around you. You have goodness in your heart. Too bad you're going to hell."

I really don't think so. I believe that Jesus would love that person and accept them.

It is the content of the character that I'm most concerned about with people.

I don't understand homosexuality. I don't understand why a man would like a man or a woman would like a woman, but I really don't care either. If they are truly happy, good for them, because that's what we all really want. To be happy.

I think that people that worry and codemn other people are not really happy with themselves.

The problem with organized religion is the hypocricy of it. The bible was written by man. Hell was invented to scare people by man.

The Catholic religion condemns homosexuality, yet Catholic priests are synonymous with sexually abusing young boys and how do they deal with it? By moving priests to different churches and paying off the victims.

It's funny to see the these people in the religious right get caught for the very thing they are speaking out against. What hypocricy!

There is too much hate in this world in the name of God. There is too much death in this world in the name of God and it has always been that way.

I love Jesus, but I do not like his fan club.


As far as God nature and man. Yes man is part of nature, but man got too arrgogant and turned his back on nature and in turn is now destroying nature. Yet up until lately has strongly denied it.

Funny how the same leaders that denied what we are doing to this world are also the ones that are so self righteously judging others lifestyles.


Eric[/quote]

You show me one place in the bible where Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he hates sin and is clear what happens to us that dont repent and "turn from our evil ways".

Dont misunderstand me; I am not condemning anyone. I am just stating what the bible says about sin.
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replied September 20th, 2007
Experienced User
sillyakchick wrote:
Gu£st wrote:
Ah you poor misinformed soul.

"It kind of reminds of the olden days. When the church was against interracial marriage and a black person couldn't marry a white person and visa versa. "

That has NEVER EVER been the case, your thinking of interreligious marriage where the church stressed the benefits and importance of marriage between people of the same faith and the complications of interfaith marriages.

"What's the difference? Them not acting on it? That is the only difference I can see in this statement. So as long as thy don't fall in love with someone and show their feelings for them, they're ok with the church?"

Your statement is erronious and unthoughtout ...there is nothing wrong with loving people of the same Gender, I know I love a lot of people the same gender as me, one of my parents is the same gender as me and I dont have to have incest to show my feelings for them.

"Don't compare adultery with homosexuality. People choose to cheat on their spouses. People do not choose to be homosexuals."

False analogy!!!!

People dont choose who they are attracted too, they choose to have sex with them or not. A female who is attracted to another male apart from her husband does not choose to be attracted to the other male, but she chooses to have sex with him or not. A man who is attracted to other men does not choose to be attracted to other men but he chooses to have sex with them or not.

"Imagine if someone told you to surpress your feelings for someone you loved and don't ever act on those feelings or you would go to hell. ( a man made up place). How would you feel? "

I wouldnt be bothered if indeed it were a man made up place. If it were a real place then and I only think it man made then i would be ingnrant of the trouble I was in. Finally if it were a real place and I believed it were I would be thankful to those who told me.

"What kind of life is it to have to surpress your feelings all your life?"

When it benefits mankind and perhaps your eternal happiness then its a galant life.

"How happy can a person who is chained to the morals of a church ( with years of hypocricy in it's history mind you) be for the rest of their lives?"

If we are made by God and destined to work for God how can we be happy doing anything else?

How happy are you, do you even understand happiness, have you ever been truely happy?

"When you condemn homosexuality, you are essentially condemning that person, because you are condemning something that they didn't choose to be."


A person is not homosexuality that is ludicris!!!

A person may be homosexual but he is certainly not homosexuality.

We condemn the act of homosexuality not the homosexual.

"So would you say that interracial marriage is wrong? The religious people before you back then did. So do you think that was wrong or right? "

Unless your talking about one or two of the protestant faiths that I do not know about, your mistaking.

"By the way, I'm white and my wife is Japanese. So I take great offense to this crap that was spouted off in the name of God. "

You can rest assured that the catholic Church has always believed that interacial marriage was a Good thing for obvious reasons.... it is one of the reasons we are hated by the Ku Klux Klan.... perhaps thats the religion your thinking about.... they still believe that way.

"To say that homosexuals are more apt to commit sexual abuse is wrong. There is a vast majority more of straight people commiting sexual abuse than homosexuals. "

your unclear... are you saying

1 the vast majority of pedophiles are straight?

Or

2 are you saying the vast majority of straight people are pedophiles?

If it is number one, then I simply say you can hardly call pedophillia "straight"

If it is number two, I think I would never take your point of view seriously again.


"People like you always focus on the deviant acts of homosexuals. Do some homosexuals practice deviant acts? Sure they do, BUT SO DO A LOT OF STRAIGHT PEOPLE!!"


in all truth any person who practices a deviant act in sexual relations can not be called "straight"

The big difference here is the homosexual act is devient in itself, where the hetorsexual act is not.

Did you know that homosexual sodomy is quite legal and considered "normal", while hetrosexual sodomy is Illegal and considered devient.

"Well I'm sorry you find my quote offensive, but you should blame the people that are speaking out against homosexuality and other issues that are getting caught for the very same thing they are condemning"

"Don't blame me because I brought it up. Blame the hypocrite you made him or herself look like a fool."


You are condemning the beliefs because of his actions, you should condemn his actions not the belief. A Person can believe that murrder is wrong and through weakness kill someone. Should we condemn that mans beliefs as wrong because he killed someone? Surely we should say he was right murrder is wrong and his action was wrong.

What we should not do is say is that his beleif was wrong because he could not live upto that standard, therefore because his belief is wrong his act was right.

They did not make themselves look like fools, they showed themselves to be weak human beings.


Guest, you are welcome to your views, but please refrain from calling people who do not believe your point of view "fools" it is insulting.


You mean like you?
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replied September 20th, 2007
Experienced User
UCanQuit wrote:
You know gaeust. I'm pretty much done with debating this. Believe what you want.

Most pastors in the south were against interracial marriage. The KKK was against other races. They both used God and scripture to validate their beliefs.

I hate the fact that people use God's name to validate things like this. There is too much hate in this world in the name of God.


You talk about choices. So are you a heterosexual or do you just practice being a heterosexual?

Did you choose to be a heterosexual? When you started having feelings.

Did you say to yourself, " I can either be a heterosexual or a homosexual."

And then did you weighed your options and choose to be heterosexual or was it just natural for you to be a heterosexual?

Did you really choose or is that just who you are?

You saying that a person being gay is a choice is like me saying to you that you chose to be straight.

I didn't shoose to be straight. I'm just naturally attracted to women.

So think what you want about gay people going to hell (again a man made up story to scare people), but I know gay people living in Seattle and they are some of the most caring, supportive people I know. To me that's important.

As far as stereotyping. That's what organized religion does in general. It doesn't seem to matter how big a heart or how caring a person is. It doesn't seem to matter about the content of their character. If they are gay they are going to hell. Is being gay even in the seven deadly sins? Is it under adultery. I'm not sure what the bible defines as adultery.

But it's OK from a scripture I read one time in the bible for a daughter to get her father drunk and then trick him into having sex with her so to bear him a son. Why not just get him drunk and go knock some other woman up? Is incest best?

Ye without sin cast the first stone. Oops wait. I can't use that because Jesus really never said it. King James had that put into the King James edition.


Speaking of choices. If the Catholic Church is so into interracial relationships. Don't you think it was a bit of a poor choice for them to have a pope (Pope Benidict) that was once part of the Nazi Youth Movement?

To add also. The bottom line is we need a seperation of church and state and this doesn't seem to be happening as of late.



Eric


Lets see what OUR bible says:

1 corinthians 6:9
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS.

leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Romans 1:26-27
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

How do you interpret these verses?
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replied September 20th, 2007
Experienced User
Oh Geez, here we go again Rolling Eyes

Why don't you just answer the question? What would Jesus do? If he met someone who was gay and they were kind to their fellow man. They were loving to the ones around them. They were always willing to lend a helping hand to the less fortunate.

Do you really think that Jesus would say to them that " You're a really kind person. You love your fellow human beings. You are always willing to help other children of God when they are not as fortunate. You are exactly how people should treat other people. It's just too bad you're going to hell." I just can't seem to wrap my head around that. That no matter how compassionate a person is. No matter how loving they are to their fellow neighbors. No matter how good of a heart they have. They are still going to hell because they are gay.



What really gets me is the hypocricy of it all!!!

Why is it OK according to one scripture in the bible for a daughter to get her father drunk and then trick him into having sex with her so to bear him a son. Why not just have sex with another woman? Is incest best?

Then I see Christians every day saying " oh gay people are going to hell, because their gay.

Well isn't sloth, and gluttony a couple of the 7 deadly sins? How come we don't tell fat christians that they're going to hell for gluttony. Aren't they a glutton for food? And please don't use a thyroid excuse on that. While some people do have thyroid problems. Most people just sit on their ass all day and eat lots of fast food and junk food.

How bout these famous evanglesists getting caught for prositiution and adultery? Oh how they repent. " Forgive me Jesus, for I have sinned."

What a bunch of crap. They're not sorry, they're just sorry for getting caught.

I'll say it again, organized religion has spread a lot of hate in this world. It as caused a lot of deaths in the name of God. Again, what would Jesus do? Would he just going around killing people in the name of his father? I don't remember him doing that in the bible. He just turned over some tables at a market or something like that.

Look at the war now. Islam extremists are calling us infidels and are trying to kill us in the name of Allah (Arabic for God)

And then the (not mine) president says that God spoke to him and told him to invade Iraq ( a whole other issue). what!!!! He invaded Iraq, because God told him to? Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!! Forget why you think we went to Iraq, the bottom line is the president said that God told him to. What the hell happened to the seperation of church and state?!!!!

And while I may not be ab expert on Islam or Christianity. I find it pretty ironic that Christians and Muslims have been fighting all these centuries. Don't they believe in the same God? After all, the Angel Gabriel ( the same angel in the Christian bible) came down and gave Mohamed(sic) scriptures that became the Koran.

By the way, anyone want to see a totally disturbing documentary. Watch the movie Jesus Camp. It is disturbing, very distubing Shocked



Eric
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replied September 20th, 2007
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Welcome to the boards, UCanQuit Very Happy
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replied September 20th, 2007
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milletics wrote:

You show me one place in the bible where Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he hates sin and is clear what happens to us that dont repent and "turn from our evil ways".

Your bible must be different than mine.

Didn't Jesus hang around with prostitutes (Mary Madgalen) and vagabonds? Didn't Jesus himself commit assault, battery, and vandalism when he got angry and tore up all of the shops inside of that church one time? That's in the bible. People forget about that story, because it HUMANIZES him. He's no longer the perfect pacifist. He committed sins himself.
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replied September 20th, 2007
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milletics wrote:

Lets see what OUR bible says:

1 corinthians 6:9
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS.


This is the only clear reference to homosexuality in the entire bible that actually states it as wrong, listing homosexual offenders with male prostitutes (I guess female ones are okay!?), cheaters, and people who worship other gods (of course!).

What is a homosexual "offender" though?

Quote:
leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.


Isn't that Old Testament? I thought the Old Testament didn't count. Any time I try using the old testament in an argument, I'm told it doesn't count. So now I'm returning the favor.

Quote:
Romans 1:26-27
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.


This is, to my knowledge, the only other New Testament quote in here, so only two count!

"God gave them over" = Aka, God FORCED these people to have these feelings. Forced homosexuality is far different from being born with it. God used gay sex to punish these people, which I find hilarious.

Quote:
How do you interpret these verses?

A. One of them doesn't count 'cause it's Old Testament.
B. God forced the people in Romans to BE gay! That's not natural homosexuality. I'm pretty sure that means it doesn't count either.
C. The only one that counts is Corinthians.

But again, what exactly is a homosexual "offender"?

Besides, the bible has never been very good at describing the real world. Science has proven it wrong so many times it's not even funny.
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replied September 20th, 2007
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milletics wrote:
sillyakchick wrote:
Gu£st wrote:
Ah you poor misinformed soul.

"It kind of reminds of the olden days. When the church was against interracial marriage and a black person couldn't marry a white person and visa versa. "

That has NEVER EVER been the case, your thinking of interreligious marriage where the church stressed the benefits and importance of marriage between people of the same faith and the complications of interfaith marriages.

"What's the difference? Them not acting on it? That is the only difference I can see in this statement. So as long as thy don't fall in love with someone and show their feelings for them, they're ok with the church?"

Your statement is erronious and unthoughtout ...there is nothing wrong with loving people of the same Gender, I know I love a lot of people the same gender as me, one of my parents is the same gender as me and I dont have to have incest to show my feelings for them.

"Don't compare adultery with homosexuality. People choose to cheat on their spouses. People do not choose to be homosexuals."

False analogy!!!!

People dont choose who they are attracted too, they choose to have sex with them or not. A female who is attracted to another male apart from her husband does not choose to be attracted to the other male, but she chooses to have sex with him or not. A man who is attracted to other men does not choose to be attracted to other men but he chooses to have sex with them or not.

"Imagine if someone told you to surpress your feelings for someone you loved and don't ever act on those feelings or you would go to hell. ( a man made up place). How would you feel? "

I wouldnt be bothered if indeed it were a man made up place. If it were a real place then and I only think it man made then i would be ingnrant of the trouble I was in. Finally if it were a real place and I believed it were I would be thankful to those who told me.

"What kind of life is it to have to surpress your feelings all your life?"

When it benefits mankind and perhaps your eternal happiness then its a galant life.

"How happy can a person who is chained to the morals of a church ( with years of hypocricy in it's history mind you) be for the rest of their lives?"

If we are made by God and destined to work for God how can we be happy doing anything else?

How happy are you, do you even understand happiness, have you ever been truely happy?

"When you condemn homosexuality, you are essentially condemning that person, because you are condemning something that they didn't choose to be."


A person is not homosexuality that is ludicris!!!

A person may be homosexual but he is certainly not homosexuality.

We condemn the act of homosexuality not the homosexual.

"So would you say that interracial marriage is wrong? The religious people before you back then did. So do you think that was wrong or right? "

Unless your talking about one or two of the protestant faiths that I do not know about, your mistaking.

"By the way, I'm white and my wife is Japanese. So I take great offense to this crap that was spouted off in the name of God. "

You can rest assured that the catholic Church has always believed that interacial marriage was a Good thing for obvious reasons.... it is one of the reasons we are hated by the Ku Klux Klan.... perhaps thats the religion your thinking about.... they still believe that way.

"To say that homosexuals are more apt to commit sexual abuse is wrong. There is a vast majority more of straight people commiting sexual abuse than homosexuals. "

your unclear... are you saying

1 the vast majority of pedophiles are straight?

Or

2 are you saying the vast majority of straight people are pedophiles?

If it is number one, then I simply say you can hardly call pedophillia "straight"

If it is number two, I think I would never take your point of view seriously again.


"People like you always focus on the deviant acts of homosexuals. Do some homosexuals practice deviant acts? Sure they do, BUT SO DO A LOT OF STRAIGHT PEOPLE!!"


in all truth any person who practices a deviant act in sexual relations can not be called "straight"

The big difference here is the homosexual act is devient in itself, where the hetorsexual act is not.

Did you know that homosexual sodomy is quite legal and considered "normal", while hetrosexual sodomy is Illegal and considered devient.

"Well I'm sorry you find my quote offensive, but you should blame the people that are speaking out against homosexuality and other issues that are getting caught for the very same thing they are condemning"

"Don't blame me because I brought it up. Blame the hypocrite you made him or herself look like a fool."


You are condemning the beliefs because of his actions, you should condemn his actions not the belief. A Person can believe that murrder is wrong and through weakness kill someone. Should we condemn that mans beliefs as wrong because he killed someone? Surely we should say he was right murrder is wrong and his action was wrong.

What we should not do is say is that his beleif was wrong because he could not live upto that standard, therefore because his belief is wrong his act was right.

They did not make themselves look like fools, they showed themselves to be weak human beings.


Guest, you are welcome to your views, but please refrain from calling people who do not believe your point of view "fools" it is insulting.


You mean like you?


MODERATOR NOTE:

My note was a warning as a moderator, and now I extend it to you as well. Please do not risk having a thread locked due to name calling.
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replied September 20th, 2007
Experienced User
Eiri wrote:
milletics wrote:

You show me one place in the bible where Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he hates sin and is clear what happens to us that dont repent and "turn from our evil ways".

Your bible must be different than mine.

Didn't Jesus hang around with prostitutes (Mary Madgalen) and vagabonds? Didn't Jesus himself commit assault, battery, and vandalism when he got angry and tore up all of the shops inside of that church one time? That's in the bible. People forget about that story, because it HUMANIZES him. He's no longer the perfect pacifist. He committed sins himself.


Yep he told her to sin no more. And she stopped her sinful lifestyle. He did NOT commit sins. He got angry. Anger is not a sin. And theres where you are completely wrong; Jesus is NOT a pacifist.
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replied September 20th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
milletics wrote:
Eiri wrote:
milletics wrote:

You show me one place in the bible where Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he hates sin and is clear what happens to us that dont repent and "turn from our evil ways".

Your bible must be different than mine.

Didn't Jesus hang around with prostitutes (Mary Madgalen) and vagabonds? Didn't Jesus himself commit assault, battery, and vandalism when he got angry and tore up all of the shops inside of that church one time? That's in the bible. People forget about that story, because it HUMANIZES him. He's no longer the perfect pacifist. He committed sins himself.


Yep he told her to sin no more. And she stopped her sinful lifestyle. He did NOT commit sins. He got angry. Anger is not a sin. And theres where you are completely wrong; Jesus is NOT a pacifist.


Then why do all the christians say he was one?
Isn't WRATH a sin?
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replied September 20th, 2007
Experienced User
UCanQuit wrote:
Oh Geez, here we go again Rolling Eyes

Why don't you just answer the question? What would Jesus do? If he met someone who was gay and they were kind to their fellow man. They were loving to the ones around them. They were always willing to lend a helping hand to the less fortunate.

Do you really think that Jesus would say to them that " You're a really kind person. You love your fellow human beings. You are always willing to help other children of God when they are not as fortunate. You are exactly how people should treat other people. It's just too bad you're going to hell." I just can't seem to wrap my head around that. That no matter how compassionate a person is. No matter how loving they are to their fellow neighbors. No matter how good of a heart they have. They are still going to hell because they are gay.



What really gets me is the hypocricy of it all!!!

Why is it OK according to one scripture in the bible for a daughter to get her father drunk and then trick him into having sex with her so to bear him a son. Why not just have sex with another woman? Is incest best?

Then I see Christians every day saying " oh gay people are going to hell, because their gay.

Well isn't sloth, and gluttony a couple of the 7 deadly sins? How come we don't tell fat christians that they're going to hell for gluttony. Aren't they a glutton for food? And please don't use a thyroid excuse on that. While some people do have thyroid problems. Most people just sit on their ass all day and eat lots of fast food and junk food.

How bout these famous evanglesists getting caught for prositiution and adultery? Oh how they repent. " Forgive me Jesus, for I have sinned."

What a bunch of crap. They're not sorry, they're just sorry for getting caught.

I'll say it again, organized religion has spread a lot of hate in this world. It as caused a lot of deaths in the name of God. Again, what would Jesus do? Would he just going around killing people in the name of his father? I don't remember him doing that in the bible. He just turned over some tables at a market or something like that.

Look at the war now. Islam extremists are calling us infidels and are trying to kill us in the name of Allah (Arabic for God)

And then the (not mine) president says that God spoke to him and told him to invade Iraq ( a whole other issue). what!!!! He invaded Iraq, because God told him to? Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!! Forget why you think we went to Iraq, the bottom line is the president said that God told him to. What the hell happened to the seperation of church and state?!!!!

And while I may not be ab expert on Islam or Christianity. I find it pretty ironic that Christians and Muslims have been fighting all these centuries. Don't they believe in the same God? After all, the Angel Gabriel ( the same angel in the Christian bible) came down and gave Mohamed(sic) scriptures that became the Koran.

By the way, anyone want to see a totally disturbing documentary. Watch the movie Jesus Camp. It is disturbing, very distubing Shocked



Eric


Jesus made it very clear that the ONLY way to heaven was to believe in him and accept that he died for us.
He said that we are saved by faith and grace, NOT by works.
Doesnt matter how good you were, only if you believe and become "born again"

Again true "born again" christians do not spread hate. Me saying homosexuality is wrong is not hatefull. You are very misled.
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replied September 20th, 2007
Experienced User
[quote="milletics"]
UCanQuit wrote:
Oh Geez, here we go again Rolling Eyes

Why don't you just answer the question? What would Jesus do? If he met someone who was gay and they were kind to their fellow man. They were loving to the ones around them. They were always willing to lend a helping hand to the less fortunate.

Do you really think that Jesus would say to them that " You're a really kind person. You love your fellow human beings. You are always willing to help other children of God when they are not as fortunate. You are exactly how people should treat other people. It's just too bad you're going to hell." I just can't seem to wrap my head around that. That no matter how compassionate a person is. No matter how loving they are to their fellow neighbors. No matter how good of a heart they have. They are still going to hell because they are gay.



What really gets me is the hypocricy of it all!!!

Why is it OK according to one scripture in the bible for a daughter to get her father drunk and then trick him into having sex with her so to bear him a son. Why not just have sex with another woman? Is incest best?

Then I see Christians every day saying " oh gay people are going to hell, because their gay.

Well isn't sloth, and gluttony a couple of the 7 deadly sins? How come we don't tell fat christians that they're going to hell for gluttony. Aren't they a glutton for food? And please don't use a thyroid excuse on that. While some people do have thyroid problems. Most people just sit on their ass all day and eat lots of fast food and junk food.

How bout these famous evanglesists getting caught for prositiution and adultery? Oh how they repent. " Forgive me Jesus, for I have sinned."

What a bunch of crap. They're not sorry, they're just sorry for getting caught.

I'll say it again, organized religion has spread a lot of hate in this world. It as caused a lot of deaths in the name of God. Again, what would Jesus do? Would he just going around killing people in the name of his father? I don't remember him doing that in the bible. He just turned over some tables at a market or something like that.

Look at the war now. Islam extremists are calling us infidels and are trying to kill us in the name of Allah (Arabic for God)

And then the (not mine) president says that God spoke to him and told him to invade Iraq ( a whole other issue). what!!!! He invaded Iraq, because God told him to? Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!! Forget why you think we went to Iraq, the bottom line is the president said that God told him to. What the hell happened to the seperation of church and state?!!!!

And while I may not be ab expert on Islam or Christianity. I find it pretty ironic that Christians and Muslims have been fighting all these centuries. Don't they believe in the same God? After all, the Angel Gabriel ( the same angel in the Christian bible) came down and gave Mohamed(sic) scriptures that became the Koran.

By the way, anyone want to see a totally disturbing documentary. Watch the movie Jesus Camp. It is disturbing, very distubing Shocked



Eric


Jesus made it very clear that the ONLY way to heaven was to believe in him and accept that he died for us.
He said that we are saved by faith and grace, NOT by works.
Doesnt matter how good you were, only if you believe and become "born again"

Again true "born again" christians do not spread hate. Me saying homosexuality is wrong is not hatefull. You are very misled.
Read your posts. Who is the one thats hateful. You hate religeon an people of it. You make that clear.
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replied September 20th, 2007
Experienced User
Eiri wrote:
milletics wrote:
Eiri wrote:
milletics wrote:

You show me one place in the bible where Jesus EVER ACCEPTS sin.
Jesus was never tolerant. Loving yes, for he came for sinners.
He loves all sinners (all of us) but he hates sin and is clear what happens to us that dont repent and "turn from our evil ways".

Your bible must be different than mine.

Didn't Jesus hang around with prostitutes (Mary Madgalen) and vagabonds? Didn't Jesus himself commit assault, battery, and vandalism when he got angry and tore up all of the shops inside of that church one time? That's in the bible. People forget about that story, because it HUMANIZES him. He's no longer the perfect pacifist. He committed sins himself.


Yep he told her to sin no more. And she stopped her sinful lifestyle. He did NOT commit sins. He got angry. Anger is not a sin. And theres where you are completely wrong; Jesus is NOT a pacifist.


Then why do all the christians say he was one?
Isn't WRATH a sin?


Dont say ALL christians. Many who call themself christian never accepted him so arent.
For us Wrath is a sin as is judgeing. However we know that God is the only judge. Does that mean God sins because he is our judge? No. For he is our ultimate authority.
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replied September 20th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
So God can commit all the sins he wants, got it.

That can be interpreted as "He who is in power can commit any sin he wants, for he is in power".

Popes.
CEOs.
Celebrities.
Presidents.

It's rampant in our society, this dichotomy that the one in power is absolved of all sin, but he who follows wallows in Hell just for being in love...

An yes, aside from you and one/two other crazy preachers, every Christian I have met says that Jesus was a man of peace who stood against war and fighting. He "turned the other cheek" when confronted with physical violence, and preferred to talk his way out of situations rather than physically fight. Was he a warrior of the soul? Perhaps. But his physical form, his actions in the physical world, were those of a pacifist.
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replied September 20th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
milletics wrote:

Again true "born again" christians do not spread hate. Me saying homosexuality is wrong is not hatefull.


Ask a homosexual how they feel.

Or do you not care?
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replied September 20th, 2007
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If homosexualtiy is allowed within the confines of one's religion, then I don't understand why you as a christian feel like it is your place to barge in and tell them how wrong it is. In the US we are allowed freedom of religion, thus we do not have to live under the will of your god or anyone elses. Homosexuality may seem wrong to you, but not to the entirety of the planet. You don't see buddhists telling you how wrong you are for eating meat, do you? Wouldn't you be sort of offended if someone from another faith kept telling you over and over how wrong you were, how you are going to be burned for eternity, how your life and beliefs were sinful? I am certain if you thought about that you would understand why some people are so offended by this. People feel that their beliefs are the just/good/righteous way to live, think and act, just as you do. Remeber, do unto others. Wink
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replied September 20th, 2007
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QUOTE "Who is the one thats hateful. You hate religeon an people of it. You make that clear"

You're right. I do not like organized religion, but it doesn't mean that I don't like all the people in it.

There are many people of different faiths that used their faith in the positvie way.

Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Martin Luther King jr and many more. Not to mention there are everyday people of faith any faith that choose not to judge others and try to live with the rule of loving their fellow human being.

Again, why is it OK for a woman to get her father drunk and sleep with him? What makes incest OK?

Why is it not a damnable sin to sit around all day and not do anything ,but watch TV and eat and eat. Sloth and Gluttony are two of the seven deadly sins. Shouldn't Christians be warning there fellow humans that overeating and sitting around all day not doing anything is a damnable sin that can send them to hell?

Don't these two sins apply just as homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord?

Have you ever seen Wife Swap? The Big crazy Christian Lady that was judging the other family, yet she was commiting two of the seven deadly sins?

You cannot pick and choose which sin is damnable, but who is really going to tell her she is going to hell?

My problem is the history of organized religion and the atrocoties commited in the name of God. The hypocricy of picking and choosing what is sinful and what is not to whatever is convienent.

If this were the early 1900's, we would be having this arguement over interracial marriage.

That is my problem.



Eric
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replied September 20th, 2007
Experienced User
TY AyaMiyaki

LOL I came here to help people quit smoking. How did I get caught in this debate? LOL




Eric
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replied September 20th, 2007
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Meh, i'm going to carry on finding women attractive not matter what the bible says, if i don't get into heaven then oh well i enjoyed my life with men and women
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replied September 20th, 2007
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milletics wrote:

Lets see what OUR bible says:

1 corinthians 6:9
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS.

leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Romans 1:26-27
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

How do you interpret these verses?


How do I interpret those verses? As words written by men who were trying to rid their culture of what they considered immoral practices. They were the FIRST to think homosexuality was immoral- and should've been the last. Why are we basing our morals on words from an extinct culture? Don't get me wrong, I believe the bible has some very nice things to say that people should pay more attention to.... but do you also expect women to wear veils and not talk in church? We practice what our culture accepts, not strictly what the bible says.
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