Medical Questions > Mental Health > Schizophrenia Forum

RD Liang & Mark Vonnegut

RD Liang, great antipsychiatry guru from the 60's guru for the beatles and the doors, high on lsd and advocating it like timothy leary, and getting a little too far out about it's value to the world and the prospect for curing all people of sz. The guy sounds schizotypal as hell; he pursued "esoteric causes like shamanism"!
I'm the same kid, I'd say my lee shan oolong meets his LSD & alcohol, and I raise him one shamanism drum tape.
I can explain why we treat our families "abominably", and not necessarily everybody, like serial killers we can roar out in hatred at the wife and kids and then pick up the phone and be the most empathetic and compassionate voice some stranger has ever met. Compartmentalization helps. But I can describe why the hatred, what it is we are really trying to say.

I mean I just hung up on my wife this morning, after telling her I blame her that I am still alive, her religious delusions, and that it has long since been time to go and this torture is evil, and it's all on her. My mom told me never to call a few weeks ago, when I described roasting her on a stake inside her burning house. I had a job teaching, which I much prefer to running t-sql reports on a citrix network from a 9 hour a day dilbert cubicle, and that teaching job at redhat I lined up after painstaking time investment, 7 weeks to take the RHCE and finally pass and sit through all the classes again at their insistence, then another trip to north carolina earlier this year, to get certified again, so finally I get my first class, this is about 4 weeks ago, and it's in nyc. So I call my mom, in a fit of ghost bug hell, and tell her the danger for her is that I have a ticket to manhattan, and I know where she lives, I've burned her house down before and I can firebomb it again. It's just a cry for help but the alzheimers patient is lost, so she calls redhat hq human resources, threatens to sue if I destroy her or her property, they consult the cops, and the class is cancelled on saturday morning by redhat hq, my boss at the agency eventually explains this to me a week later when I ask about any other work. Fired from the last hope of a teaching job, I'm back in dayton going through hell and ready to commit mass murder in order to get the help i need from humanity. whatever with the mom.

My mom was like Liang, a psychotherapist herself, also compassionate and empathetic to her prison women patients, and a terror to her 4 kids, none of which will have anything to do with her, alone in a house in the bronx with three cats, in her 70's.
Experiencing her wrath all my early life, of course I had to try to understand it.

Reason versus madness, that was her trip. She'd been in that same generation, mcarthy 50's clean perfection objectified values, my mother and father a couple of conservative intellectuals, frightened by the long haired beatles, black riots, and jeans, the "cult of ugliness" (my sister's jordache and sasoon cut to pieces by a witches scissors). to this day she yells at me about dropping out of college, like at 45 that makes any sense for a crazy guy like me, and still refuses to talk to my wife cause she's black, and therefor "horrible", though of course the moms in prison who were black but were her patients, were "dears".

She imparted to us that we could never survive that real world, because we had something lacking, she wanted us to inherit her fears, so she imparted a sense that we should hurry to cloister ourselves in academia, as both parents had, for our own protection from the beatles (and I DO have bugs crawling all over me, guess I didn't protect myself from microscopic beatles, wonder if their music's any good). My mom still goes to fordham university for a few classes a semester and hangs out with the priests who live there, and she goes off on her kids, used to beat us mercilessly and tortured us in ways unconscionable by today's standards, encouraged by dr spock's books on raising kids (and we now know dr spock's kid committed suicide, something I've been begging to be assisted with for several months now), and I always knew it was her own madness she was beating back as well as all males and specifically her own father, whose male tendencies she could never forgive, and would turn livid just recounting. What a child hood of castration that was, the stories I could tell! When I do tell these stories to brother in laws, they always say they can't believe any of us four kids are actually functional in the world at this point. (here, barely!)

When Liang beat his daughter, I could see the same thing. They intuit madness, as they've seen it, amplified, in themselves, and assume it's a part of everyone, most of all their own direct progeny, and they attempt to beat out the demons they know are in there, from day one. Meanwhile to the outside world all they want to do is show they have successfully beaten these demons down in themselves. How super important, then, to prove as well they've beaten it out of their kids in the process of "raising" they are so proud of, or used to be in those days. All that psychological castration, no wonder I'm such a !**@! these days, full of yeast.


Well I've taken the ball and run with it, I'm not getting drunk and I'm not going camping (liang's son died that way), I took it to a whole new level, I don't hate madness, I love it, I get accused of "romanticizing" madness, and it's humanity I've decided I hate, any sense of their normal world, so I torture it as best I can without paying the consequences of their system.

I have a teeshirt I like to wear on sunday afternoons in areas like this, says in big letters "child molester", with picture of a little kid, and another that says "registered sex offender", and a third with the face of moktada al S'adr, that was from a few years ago, our "enemy" in iraq. And when the cops ask my name I tell them it's "al quaeda in dayton" or wherever I am at the time. I am declaring my total otherness from their species, and my hostility. Just crying out for help, but the humans don't take it very well.

Liang smashed the table and the TV, then got his victim arrested for it. I got on a plane a few years ago, some poor guy and his kid sit next to me, I torture the humans into thinking I am insane and dangerous, without actually hurting anybody (clenched fists, weird looks and stares and shakes...), when we get off, ten cops greet us at the gate. After a quick discussion "I'm sorry, misunderstanding, I'm fine, gotta go to work", the guy was so upset he lost it and was taken away in handcuffs. I felt sorry he had the bad luck of sitting next to me, but that's demons for ya.

Don't worry, mrs liang, I, too, am actually rotting in hell as we speak, infested with bugs. Gotta remember to stay off the tennis courts, though! (RD Liang collapsed in his 60's on a tennis court after pissing off his family by mistreating them, an alcoholic and a nut)
The best part of the story: "Demons continued to pursue the family", I guess in my case, even if it all ends today at the dayton mall, demons will continue to haunt humanity, my archnemesis. Just wait till the swat team of ohio sets the tigers free!!!!!
Mark Vonegut is confused.
He and RD Liang's argument, (he wants to "bite" RD Liang for suggesting schizophrenia is just something you need to talk to the person about, that's it isn't really serious, doesn't require drugs or hospitalization, just an understanding environment.) I think I ws recently treated with Liang's line, I didn't know where it came from cause I had no familiarity with that 60's stuff, kinda before my time, the guy read a manifesto of mine on madness, and said that maybe i was sane and reacting appropriately to an insane world. Seemed out of left field and did not ring true.
I see it all the time in the schizophrenia forums, the threads that go "meds suck cause they don't work or they are unnecessary and not worth the side effects" (for me they mean); "no, meds saved my life, i'm not functional without them, how can you make those stupid statements, you must be delusional" (because there can only be one type of madness and we both must have it), silly people, even in today's new york times a pdoc studying depression said all brains are wired differently and it's a shot in the dark (he called it "more of an art than a science" but I think he gives himself too much credit), The forum arguments continue "no, you are making a mistake taking those meds, just get your nutrition, your lifestyle right, you'll be ok just wait and see", etc. I see it all the time I say "don't you people realize you are different? Haven't we all encountered the people who really need the drugs, they are so far gone for whatever reason I can't relate to, because I am not schizophrenic, most of the time, I AM schizotypal, and that means I have those tendencies, and if I let my diet and lifestyle go too far afield I present like a schizophrenic. The drugs are needed for some (no idea why), while others need to stay away. Whatever gets you through the night, it's alright;

So these guys, both mark vonegut who is apparently schizotypal to schizophrenic, and rd liang the beatles and doors guru who also was schizotypal, and like me loved studying the madness, "mapping the madness and finding the solace" is my phrase for what I try to do, they both conflate schizophrenia and schizotypality. Mark is far afield, I guess I'm not as interested in reading his eden book as I thought I was, he doesn't have much insight here. He gets it wrong when he comments it's just who he's around for a few minutes, good or bad, ad it isn't making any difference on his symptoms. It's not who you are around today, it's much more about diet, lifestyle, relaxation skills and/or tendency to stay manic, even having understanding friends to bounce the weirder ideas off of, not to mention som e shamanism training, as well as the attitude today, what we read, think, say, and maybe even deeper circuity and inheritance, maybe karma, all these things are as complicated as the dials on a 747 in a storm over the ocean, and it can be tough to keep it flying right even when you kinda know how.

Confusing schizophrenia and schizotypality. A girlfriend took me to her therapist, and after talking with me he said "lets get something straight here, schizophrenia is a serious disease, and that's not what charlie has, sz is up here, and charlie is down here, and if we could take what charlie has and put it in a bottle he'd be richer than bill gates" (which is offensive because I'm not a capitalist, he assumes an irrational greed that isn't there, I do what I can and take what I need).

I think schizophrenia is more than just the opening of the third eye - the pineal gland - it's also the bad nutrition, bad lifestyle, as well as having no training on how to behave in the demon world that the third eye begins to reveal.

As a schizotypal, these are the things that make the huge difference for me, as to how schizophrenic or normal I appear (never quite normal, just not always desperate), but the truly lost, for whatever reason, who I just can't relate to, any more than RD Liang apparently, need those meds, and they seem to help. Problem is medicine gets it wrong, too, tries to medicate everyone who's not a centrist of the tribe if they have the slightest question about mentation, personality, philosophy of the world we live in, these people in medicine have no script to offer, don't have the answers we seekers were looking for, so they attempt to drug us whether we need it or not, and that, I assume is Pfizer's marketing , yachts for prescriptions.

It's his "goddam guru stance", Vonegut admits in the middle of his rant, he admits THAT's why he wants to bite RD Liang, like I want to bite the pope (recently changed my story, from "kill the pope" which I always hear the demons say, to "send the pope a telegram, 'LET MY PEOPLE GO'", maybe that'd be better than the hypothetical "bite", what are you a rabid dog Mark?)

The goddam guru stance, like Entombed said in a great [removed by Admin] tune, "it's your goddam act that is a major threat!" (that tune goes on to suggest that if I make a pact with the devil I can get the ghost bugs off of me, they sing "I won't be calling, calling as we level, and when we're falling, I'm like this with the devil; when they're creeping upon you, eating dust that you bleed, don't say I didn't warn you, I toast to your death, to myself, cause I'm free, like this with the devil !"problem for me is I stand for red magic, not for black or white, just broken halves of my agakokakological yin yang world.)

And then Mark gets on the one percent thing - one percent of people in all cultures across all time are said to talk to spirits, in some cultures that's the shaman, usually the shaman's kid comes by it naturally, but others come by it spontaneously, they know when they hear about the dreams, third eye wide open and staring at the well known demon world. I'm the kid of a roman catholic jesuit priest, shaman of new york city in the 40's and 50's kinda, so I come by it naturally, a calling passed down to me, to speak with the other side. Most don't want to. Many who are called, in a culture that does not value the "other side", avoid the call, go for meds, drug themselves, but that never works, the call will not stop coming, though more and more will have to be called if you don't answer yours. Some called don't make it, die trying, depends on the enlightenment of the culture about the other world, the world of the soul, the collective unconscious, mapped by the shamanic cultures (aztec, taoist, russian irrationalists, etc) ignored as meaningless dreams of raving lunatics in my native american culture, and of course that affects success of answering the call around here. Some of us call out to the demons, choose our selves, give ourselves our own calling, when the torturous parents leave no alternative for finding solace.

It's a call from our brothers and sisters, on the much larger, invisible side of the family, scientists like snowflakes at the center of the cloud that precipitated them, and they try to ignore the cloud as unreal and unworthy of attention or anything else, like devils the snowflakes try to act like they invented themselves and know everything there is to know about how the snowflake should be built, forgetting that snowflakes in the same cloud are all unique. Our world will never lose touch with the other side of the family, for whatever you like to believe out here, we are truly "theirs".

It's not always hell for the schizotypal, it can be glory; go to youtube and search on schizophrenia, (you gotta see the little girl whose imaginary friends are numbers and they are pure evil,) and the rest of them are sad cases of overmedicated, confused, cigarette smoking, incarcerated, patients in hell.

then type "schizotypal" into you tube. these people are similar, mad as a hatter, full of energy, amazing presenters, just like the show I put on for my students that gets me the number one rated instructor in the country. Some of our greatest entertainers are schizotypal , and they do suffer but there is also beauty, glory, and understanding. Yes, I'm in hell for the past 9 months, but it's diet, yeast infection, leaky gut, stupid teenager's diet that's how I simulate schizophrenia, schizotypal that I am.

And set the tigers free from the hospitals, I hear madness didn't fare well, silenced, outcast, ignored, relegated to the delusions board of the schizophrenia websites, and literature, as the book "writing and madness" says, madness's new home within literature.

The hospitals today, I find they function as slightly nicer prisons, the jails are a little more harsh cause they figure you committed some crime (whether I really did or not is always another story, that's why no strikes, just put in cells to try to teach me the lesson RD Liang wanted to teach his daughter when he beat her, the lesson my mom wanted to teach me when she whipped me and raged like a demon with psychological warfare, and entire section of my frontal lobes now necessarily devoted to mind to mind combat, nobody can compete, what a legacy she let me, the nut!

No crime other than a disordered, radically different, and willful mind. Free thinking, it doesn't go over well these days, around here.

But the hospitals do some good, I like them occasionally, they get your mite infested clothing off you and sealed, get you into a clean and sterile environment, gets you away from your overstimulating life, gives you a minimal caloric intake - that's jail or psych hospital - so you can't manage to spin as wildly, and some older veterans of the system use it as a short vacation from a stressful life, check in, stay calm, check out in a few days, I meet those guys in there all the time.

Outside, there's no "script", and for all kinds of reasons some personalities, like mine, go right back to overstimulation, myself by studying madness.

So I'm glad the system is there, I keep the option on the table to dial 911 anytime, and speak the simple sentence "I feel like hurting myself and others", and with or without insurance in america, it's a "stone soul picnic for the early resigned" (Steely Dan, "Blues Beach" - "I'm sizzlin in the merciful rays!")

onderdonk
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First Helper ONDERDONK
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replied July 18th, 2011
Active User, very eHealthy
Calling someone a nut? That's offensive to the almond!

Great post!

You truly are the onderdonk.

The most onderistdonkiest guy ever.
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