I had a gout flare up some 7 weeks ago, and it has persisted to this day (sometimes really bad, mostly manageable but evident). I drastically improved my diet, becoming a vegetarian, majoring on foods believed to raise pH. My urine pH has gone from consistent 5.5 or so to now over 7 during these weeks (all diet, in my opinion) but I am still experiencing gout attacks that flare up, forcing me back on Indomethacin (I have been on meds most of the time).

I am not taking Allopurionol or Similar drug at this time, but my Doc says to do so when I am better. I know that when I go on these, they can cause flare ups because they strip Uric Acid out and thus can cause gout.

My question is: is it possible that my vastly higher pH is causing the same effect as taking Allopurinol? Is it possible that I am removing so much uric acid out simply by having vastly higher urine PH(with presumed pH benefits across my entire body) that I am actually causing the acid crystals in my joints to dissolve and thus be flushed out, causing a gout flare up from time to time? I ask because it will make the flare ups easier to bear (thinking that maybe they will end). I have never had a gout attack that has stayed with me for anywhere near as long before. It's very demoralizing to think it will never end.

Any input appreciated.

Andrew

Ps diet is zero meat. Majoring on green veggies like Brussels and Broccoli. Steamed and sometimes fried in extra virgin olive oil. Zero bread. Zero alcohol. Lots of Celery. Cherries. Lemons. Some cheese. Green and some black tea. It is a lot different to the old me. I will do about anything to be rid of this, and am willing to maintain it too. The pain is at times excruciating., even with Indomethacin in my system.
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First Helper Poz
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replied November 26th, 2012
Update (in the hope that my story helps some others). The gout continues. I had another flare-up just after Thanksgiving (my diet was excellent: virtually a Vegan, so it's not the normal "Thanksgiving flare-up that I have had in prior years after eating Turkey).

Interestingly and hopefully encouragingly, I am noticing that the gout is "moving": My right foot is where most of the trouble is, but the gout pain has gone to the heel, not front of ankle.

I am hoping that this is because my high pH is starting to slowly flush Uric acid crystals from my joints, and as it clears one area a bit, it goes to another. If so, I expect flare-ups to continue but (1) hopefully with reduced and reducing intensity and (2) moving to different locations. If so, this would support my hopes that I am in fact recovering, and slowly clearing out the Uric acid (thus causing flare-ups in the process).

It's a struggle though: I am now entering week 7 of this.

My Urine pH dropped to about 6.5 or so during the weekend flare up, but is now back over 7. This too suggests to me that my body took on board some more acid and eliminated it. As a chemist, that too makes sense: when my pH gets too "high" it neutralizes too much of the acid, causing the crystals to break down and hence giving a gout flare-up. There may be a sweet spot where I can keep the pH high enough to keep recovering, and low enough to stop flare-ups. I have little chance of finding that: all I can do is keep the vegetarian diet going, drink water and pray that I am in fact getting slowly better.

Hoping this is of some use to others who suffer with this condition. Good luck to you.

Andrew
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replied December 7th, 2012
This sounds very normal for Gout sufferers. Try a regimented daily dose of 4-8 ounces of concentrated red tart cherry juice. If you get heartburn, then drink it during or after your main meal. I also recommend that you stay away from vegetables that are considered as beans i.e. String Beans, Peas, Lentils etc. I don't know why but I found out the hard way. Drink plenty of water and stay away from Sodas.

I am not a doctor or scientist but keep a log of the things you eat and drink. This will help you determine what eases or worsens your pain. I hope it works out for you.
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replied December 3rd, 2012
Cherry Juice and MethylB12 ... try it.
Just FYI ... cherries or 'juicy juice' cherry juice 100% juice no sugar added. Drink a cup a day and it sifts out the uric acid out of your liver which in turn assists in avoiding flare ups with Gout.

I did this for many years and it barely ever flares-up. But also within the past few years I was diagnosed with MTHFR a defiency in B12, folic acid and B6 but I need the converted form of B12 which is methylB12. Maybe you have a defiency in B12 which also causes gout.

So try one or both but I'd suggest the methylB12 1000 over the regular form it absorbs quicker into your system.

Enjoy!
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replied December 7th, 2012
Hello Wizlon,
Your body pH balance really plays a big role here. My brother has gout problem. I told him to drink lemon drink as often as he could with empty stomach. Now he is OK. Lemon's pH level is 10, it helps to dissolve acid crystals and flushed out. The reason I said drink with your empty stomach because if you drink with food in stomach, lemon will lose it pH and becomes acid forming. Here is the formula: 1 fresh squeezed lemon juice mixed in 12 oz of water. You can mix in a little sugar or honey if you cannot stand on the sour taste.
Good luck
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replied December 7th, 2012
pH of lemon
The pH of lemon juice is about 2~2.8. It's much smaller than pH=10.
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replied December 8th, 2012
Thanks for the postings. I'm still struggling with the condition. I am amazed at its persistence. I had another flare up since my last post, but it was slightly better than prior ones, so hopefully I am on a road to recovery (that might be more of my desperate hope rather than being an informed position). I noted again that my pH again drops during a flare, then it rebounds when the flare starts to subside. To me, that still ties in well with a bunch of acid coming out, wreaking havoc along the way, as Uric acid is known to do. I guess I'll know soon enough, as if this theory is right, they should happen with ever decreasing frequency and severity until they stop. I greatly look forward to that day, should it ever come.

I will try some concentrated tart Cherry juice in addition to the dark-cherry supplements I am taking. Coincidentally or otherwise, I had lemon in water the last time I had a flare up, so I will leave that alone for a bit longer before venturing back. I do believe lemons are good for a gout diet, so it's sound advice.

My diet is still good of course. I am a stout tea-drinking vegetarian (no soda, meat, alcohol, candy, pastry, bread blah blah - very simple diet majoring on green veggies except Spinach and other relatively high purine veggies). My weight is stablising out (about 30LB lighter than my all-time max of 212 or so earlier this year). Hopefully that too will help, as I might finally stop burning off muscle mass and fat. My arms and legs have lost quite a bit of muscle along with excess body fat during this two month period.

Diet wise, I have also been off beans since this started about 8-9 weeks ago or so, but peas I would have had (by luck, I have not). I'll zap them too, as it's something I rarely encounter anyway. Thanks for the tip!

I have also decided to start taking Allopurinol. It's a tough decision, as I know it can also cause gout flare ups, but being as I am having them anyway, I figure I might as well try in case my uric acid levels remain very high (or if I am just producing vast amounts for whatever reason).

I'll post an update again in a few days or a week or two. Thanks for the advice folks. I read it and take it seriously.

Hopefully this thread will be of value to someone in the future too - even if it's to tell you what not to do.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Andrew
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replied December 9th, 2012
In some of my web clicking's, I found what to me was an interesting article. It's a bit technical, so look no further if you are not very geeky:-

What I liked was the science-based confirmation that urine pH is a strong influencer of Uric acid transportation and elimination; something that seems logical, but is nonetheless good to see documented as part of a well designed study.

What caught the scientists by surprise was an increase in Uric acid elimination when a low purine diet was being consumed. They did not discuss this much, but I offer that the eliminated acid had to come from somewhere OTHER than the food being ingested - i.e. the uric acid being stored elsewhere in the bodies of "perfectly healthy" test subjects. Which in turn, to me, means we're all walking Uric acid storage containers, not just the few of us that get afflicted with gout.

So what do I takeaway from this? Eating a low purine diet AND doing the things necessary to get Urine pH high (and keep it there), preferably >7.0 should theoretically be a sure fire way of eliminating gout and once it's gone, keeping it away without the need for long-term meds.

Maybe I can give up the Allopurinol and swap it out for a good diet, confirmed by pH papers and a dead-simple test? Not only is this cheaper than buying meds, more importantly, it's chemically non-invasive.
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replied December 13th, 2012
NOTE: The web site moderators decided to remove a link from my last post (which was originally inserted under the first paragraph), so sorry that it seems a bit unfinished. Inserting links is against forum rules, for reasons I understand but just was not aware of at the time of posting the article.

Sorry about that.

A quick update: I am still having flare-ups, and still struggling, but it is definitely easing. The diet (still excellent) does seem to be working. I found some nice tart Cherry juice to add into the mix. pH remains high. I'd like to get it even higher, but that might take a while. I'm hoping it's gone completely by Christmas, but I have to take each day one at a time still.

My sympathies to anyone still struggling with this horrid condition.

It's still my intention to come back, try and find this thread and post updates. I go for blood-testing on 20th, so I hope to have new results before end of month. I am thoroughly expecting cholesterol and uric acid to have improved quite a bit (surely eating veggies only has done something good...); I guess I'll see.

Happy Holidays to all in the meantime.

Andrew
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