Medical Questions > Debate Forums > Abortion Debate Forum

It IS a baby plain and simple. (Page 7)


May 20th, 2008
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Re: It IS a baby plain and simple.
jujujellybean wrote:
think on this: if a woman has an abortion, she will go through life without that child. IF she doesn't have an abortion, in nine months there will be a child there. In seven years, she will have a seven year old. In fifty, her child will be fifty.

Not neceassarily (adoption/miscarriage/losing a child in infancy/her own death etc). Point?? Confused
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replied May 22nd, 2008
Experienced User
The point is that IF she did not abort, chances are high that there would in fact be a child born and it would have a life that would affect many, many people.
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replied May 22nd, 2008
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cmyked wrote:
The point is that IF she did not abort, chances are high that there would in fact be a child born and it would have a life that would affect many, many people.


And not necessarily in a good way.
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replied May 22nd, 2008
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oopoopoop wrote:
cmyked wrote:
The point is that IF she did not abort, chances are high that there would in fact be a child born and it would have a life that would affect many, many people.


And not necessarily in a good way.



Quote:
Perhaps the most dramatic effect of legalized abortion, and one that would take years to reveal itself, was its impact on crime.
In the early 1990s, just as the first cohort of children born after Roe v. Wade was hitting its late teen years—the years during which young men enter their criminal prime—the rate of crime began to fall. What this cohort was missing, of course, were the children who stood the greatest chance of becoming criminals. And the crime rate continued to fall as an entire generation came of age minus the children whose mothers had not wanted to bring a child into the world. Legalized abortion led to less unwantedness; unwantedness leads to high crime; legalized abortion, therefore, led to less crime.
ttp://freakonomicsbook.com/thebook/ch4.htm l
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replied May 23rd, 2008
Experienced User
oopoopoop wrote:
cmyked wrote:
The point is that IF she did not abort, chances are high that there would in fact be a child born and it would have a life that would affect many, many people.


And not necessarily in a good way.

True, but that was not her point. The point was that the child would affect people, NOT what that effect would be.
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replied May 23rd, 2008
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oopoopoop wrote:
cmyked wrote:
The point is that IF she did not abort, chances are high that there would in fact be a child born and it would have a life that would affect many, many people.


And not necessarily in a good way.



And not necessarily in a bad way neither.
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replied May 23rd, 2008
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nightangel73 wrote:
oopoopoop wrote:
cmyked wrote:
The point is that IF she did not abort, chances are high that there would in fact be a child born and it would have a life that would affect many, many people.


And not necessarily in a good way.



And not necessarily in a bad way neither.


When someone writes

"And not necessarily in a good way', the "not necessarily" part implies "And not necessarily in a bad way either", so it was not necessary for you to write that. Just fyi. Smile
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replied May 27th, 2008
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jujujellybean wrote:


What if abortion were made illegal? Then what would you say? Would it still be okay for abortions to happen? Would it be wrong then?
The fetus IS living person. It is alive, it is a homo sapiens it just happens to be in the earliest stages of its development. It is a person.
per·son
1. a human being, whether man, woman, or child.
2. a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing

And since child can be a human fetus:

child
1. a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl.
2. a son or daughter.
3. a baby or infant.
4. a human fetus.

therefore it does kill a living person.

****************************************** **************8
Actaully according to law a person is born.....
The term person is used informally to mean human. But in the fields of law, philosophy, medicine, and others, it means the presence of certain characteristics that grant a certain legal, ethical, or moral standing.

For example, in many jurisdictions, the law allows a group of human beings to act together as a single composite entity called a corporation, and the corporation is considered a legal person with standing to sue or be sued in court. In philosophy and medicine, person may mean only humans who are capable of certain kinds of thought, and thus exclude embryos, early fetuses, or adult humans with certain types of brain damage.[1][2]
taken from wikipedia.com
****************************************** *****88

Like I have said before you have 2 humans 1 body, therefore by allowing the lesser half to have more rights, you are violating the mothers rights as a person.

If you give a fetus rights, than anything you do can be held in attempt for harming that child, driving(cause possible accident) eating and drinking. we would have to stay at home with the windows shut as uva rays can harm you. pretty depressing when you think about it.

So why do fetuses not have rights? They are unable to function on their own till a certain gestational age which is 26 weeks(certain percetage of survivng) more so medical experts say 28 week with a higher survival chance.

Quality of life sould be more important than quatity of life, although protection(contraceptive should be promoted) I still believe it is a choice and I will not tell someone they are wrong for it. I made the choice to parent but I also know financially, emotionally and for my family I cannot handle anymore kids, my kids deserve the best and nother kid would only take away, I have two hands and two kids, abortion is an option Im glad to have.

On another note.
With the economy sky rocketing it is going to be almost impossible even for people with the higher tax bracket to afford children. Abortion costs a fortune the prices ranger from 2000$ to 70 000$+, millions of children worldwide looking for a good family so why are they not be adopted?

I would like an answer as to why these kids should be denied a chance at life as per your post.
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replied May 28th, 2008
2 weeks ago I lost my child at 39 weeks pregnant. Before this pregnancy I was Pro-Choice I felt that the fetus technically was not a child therefore they could not feel or actually be a human being. But once you are pregnant and you can feel the child inside of you and can feel the kicks and see the child....it is a child, and infant, a human. I am now pro-life. I guess this is just my opionion but it doesnt matter the longevity of the unborn fetus's life, it is still a child who feels, eats, lives, and a living thing no matter the size is still ALIVE. I saw on hear someone posted a picture of a fetus. Doe's it matter the size? If you go fishing and catch a fish to eat it, is it still not killing that fish. Just because it doesnt look human in the early stages is it still not alive?
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replied May 28th, 2008
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slamdunk wrote:
2 weeks ago I lost my child at 39 weeks pregnant. Before this pregnancy I was Pro-Choice I felt that the fetus technically was not a child therefore they could not feel or actually be a human being. But once you are pregnant and you can feel the child inside of you and can feel the kicks and see the child....it is a child, and infant, a human. I am now pro-life. I guess this is just my opionion but it doesnt matter the longevity of the unborn fetus's life, it is still a child who feels, eats, lives, and a living thing no matter the size is still ALIVE. I saw on hear someone posted a picture of a fetus. Doe's it matter the size? If you go fishing and catch a fish to eat it, is it still not killing that fish. Just because it doesnt look human in the early stages is it still not alive?


I'm so sorry for your loss. Crying or Very sad That must've been terrible.
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replied May 28th, 2008
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slamdunk wrote:
2 weeks ago I lost my child at 39 weeks pregnant. Before this pregnancy I was Pro-Choice I felt that the fetus technically was not a child therefore they could not feel or actually be a human being. But once you are pregnant and you can feel the child inside of you and can feel the kicks and see the child....it is a child, and infant, a human. I am now pro-life. I guess this is just my opionion but it doesnt matter the longevity of the unborn fetus's life, it is still a child who feels, eats, lives, and a living thing no matter the size is still ALIVE. I saw on hear someone posted a picture of a fetus. Doe's it matter the size? If you go fishing and catch a fish to eat it, is it still not killing that fish. Just because it doesnt look human in the early stages is it still not alive?

Sorry for your loss, but I am nevertheless offended that you think YOUR experience trumps anyone else's. Did you WANT to be pregnant? Did you WANT that baby? How can you not understand that your experience is not everyone else's -- that someone else would be pregnant and hate the thing that was inside them?
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replied May 28th, 2008
Experienced User
slamdunk wrote:
2 weeks ago I lost my child at 39 weeks pregnant. Before this pregnancy I was Pro-Choice I felt that the fetus technically was not a child therefore they could not feel or actually be a human being. But once you are pregnant and you can feel the child inside of you and can feel the kicks and see the child....it is a child, and infant, a human. I am now pro-life. I guess this is just my opionion but it doesnt matter the longevity of the unborn fetus's life, it is still a child who feels, eats, lives, and a living thing no matter the size is still ALIVE. I saw on hear someone posted a picture of a fetus. Doe's it matter the size? If you go fishing and catch a fish to eat it, is it still not killing that fish. Just because it doesnt look human in the early stages is it still not alive?

I am sorry for your loss; however...

It's not because the fetus is "technically not a child" that prevents it from feeling things. Before week 27, its brain is not connected to its spinal cord. Thus, it really, truly, cannot feel pain or any other sensations. Movements before this time period are instinctive, not intended.

It is very much a human being, a child, a baby. I'm sorry you lost your child at the time you did; you were only a week away from your due date! That certainly means it is a baby in my mind. However...

Something like 90% of abortions occur around week 10. Yes, week 10. Some women are not even aware of the pregnancy at this time! The embryo/fetus is far from developed. It cannot see, or feel pain, or think. Is it still a baby? Of course. But it's not a fully developed baby yet. It's not independent of the mother. Your baby was, or could have been if it had been removed before it died (under normal circumstances). Many babies are born after 30 weeks and do just fine.

So please, reconsider why you've changed your mind. You lost a child that was nearly a newborn. Real abortions occur a very long time before then.
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replied May 29th, 2008
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slamdunk wrote:
2 weeks ago I lost my child at 39 weeks pregnant. Before this pregnancy I was Pro-Choice I felt that the fetus technically was not a child therefore they could not feel or actually be a human being. But once you are pregnant and you can feel the child inside of you and can feel the kicks and see the child....it is a child, and infant, a human. I am now pro-life. I guess this is just my opionion but it doesnt matter the longevity of the unborn fetus's life, it is still a child who feels, eats, lives, and a living thing no matter the size is still ALIVE. I saw on hear someone posted a picture of a fetus. Doe's it matter the size? If you go fishing and catch a fish to eat it, is it still not killing that fish. Just because it doesnt look human in the early stages is it still not alive?

I'm sorry for your loss Sad
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replied June 2nd, 2008
oopoopoop wrote:
slamdunk wrote:
2 weeks ago I lost my child at 39 weeks pregnant. Before this pregnancy I was Pro-Choice I felt that the fetus technically was not a child therefore they could not feel or actually be a human being. But once you are pregnant and you can feel the child inside of you and can feel the kicks and see the child....it is a child, and infant, a human. I am now pro-life. I guess this is just my opionion but it doesnt matter the longevity of the unborn fetus's life, it is still a child who feels, eats, lives, and a living thing no matter the size is still ALIVE. I saw on hear someone posted a picture of a fetus. Doe's it matter the size? If you go fishing and catch a fish to eat it, is it still not killing that fish. Just because it doesnt look human in the early stages is it still not alive?

Sorry for your loss, but I am nevertheless offended that you think YOUR experience trumps anyone else's. Did you WANT to be pregnant? Did you WANT that baby? How can you not understand that your experience is not everyone else's -- that someone else would be pregnant and hate the thing that was inside them?


How in the hell did you get from my post that I feel that my experience trumps everyone elses. I was 18 when I got pregnant, and had only been with my boyfriend for a month. I played college basketball and had a full scholarship to play and had to drop it all. No i didnt want that child and thought of many times to abort it, I regretted it and cried everyday. I felt that way until the first day I felt it move. and I do believe this was people's opinions on the subject am I correct? Therefore, I posted my opinion on the topic at hand, and by no means did I feel My experience trumped anyone elses. And as far as someone who hates whats inside of them, like I reminded myself, I shouldn't have been having sex, if i didn't want the outcome. Women are responsible unless forced, to have sex. Therefore they are responsible for what comes with it.
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replied June 2nd, 2008
cmyked wrote:
slamdunk wrote:
2 weeks ago I lost my child at 39 weeks pregnant. Before this pregnancy I was Pro-Choice I felt that the fetus technically was not a child therefore they could not feel or actually be a human being. But once you are pregnant and you can feel the child inside of you and can feel the kicks and see the child....it is a child, and infant, a human. I am now pro-life. I guess this is just my opionion but it doesnt matter the longevity of the unborn fetus's life, it is still a child who feels, eats, lives, and a living thing no matter the size is still ALIVE. I saw on hear someone posted a picture of a fetus. Doe's it matter the size? If you go fishing and catch a fish to eat it, is it still not killing that fish. Just because it doesnt look human in the early stages is it still not alive?

I am sorry for your loss; however...

It's not because the fetus is "technically not a child" that prevents it from feeling things. Before week 27, its brain is not connected to its spinal cord. Thus, it really, truly, cannot feel pain or any other sensations. Movements before this time period are instinctive, not intended.

It is very much a human being, a child, a baby. I'm sorry you lost your child at the time you did; you were only a week away from your due date! That certainly means it is a baby in my mind. However...

Something like 90% of abortions occur around week 10. Yes, week 10. Some women are not even aware of the pregnancy at this time! The embryo/fetus is far from developed. It cannot see, or feel pain, or think. Is it still a baby? Of course. But it's not a fully developed baby yet. It's not independent of the mother. Your baby was, or could have been if it had been removed before it died (under normal circumstances). Many babies are born after 30 weeks and do just fine.

So please, reconsider why you've changed your mind. You lost a child that was nearly a newborn. Real abortions occur a very long time before then.


I understand that, I guess personal experience has made me feels different. Yes my child was much further along, but the part of me that changed my mind was not the fact that the baby was far a long, its the fact that I wanted that child so much. I would give anything to have him here with me today but I don't. There are many women who have miscarrages early in the pregnancy that wish they didn't. 30,000 still borns are born each year. So for the women who have lost that wanted that child, its hard for me to fathom that a women who could have potentially had a perfectly healthy child, kills it. I am a hypocrit and I will admit it. Like i said before all this i was completely pro-choice. But again personal experience has made me feel otherwise. Matter fact, a perfect expample. When I had first found out about the baby, exactly 6 days before my due date I found out my cousin was in another hospital having her baby. This girl was on heroin and crystal meth the entire pregnancy, she tried and tried to kill her child over and over again. Yet her baby is home and healthy. It's not fair by any means, and for someone like myself who wants my child, people like her do not deserve a child. So yes, this has made me change my opinions. I know her situation is different, but she didn't have the money to get an abortion. She tried to do it herself. Now she failed and that child is going to live its life in a bad home. it makes me sick to think that someone could do that to their child.
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replied June 2nd, 2008
For sake of argument, we'll assume that the fetus has a soul. I'm curious, what happens to the soul of a fetus that dies? How is it different for a fetus that dies from an abortion or a miscarriage?

If it's a bad thing that happens to the soul, then anyone that has a miscarriage condems their fetus to this bad thing. If it is a good thing, why would the fetus that dies because of an abortion get less of this good thing?
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replied June 2nd, 2008
Experienced User
First: The pain you feel for wanting your child is the same pain some women feel when they discover they are pregnant. They desperately wish the condom hadn't broken, that the pills had worked, or that they hadn't been raped - but all of those things are out of their control. Abortion gives them some peace. It's not that most of them want to kill a child; its that they desperately don't want to be pregnant.

As for the soul, I believe every living thing on this planet has a soul. Yes, bacterial and plants count. It's more of an energy that IS God that we are all part of. God is everywhere, God is in us.

No, an aborted baby is no more cursed or damned than one that dies in childbirth or miscarriage. I don't believe in that. Your choices are what will ultimately result in your separation from God when you die. That's my vision of hell: a separation from God, from His warmth, etc. An unborn child cannot make any choices, thus it cannot damn its own soul.

The ethicalness of an abortion lies in the hands of the woman; it is her choice to decide if she feels horrified or happy.
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replied June 2nd, 2008
Experienced User
slamdunk wrote:
oopoopoop wrote:
slamdunk wrote:
2 weeks ago I lost my child at 39 weeks pregnant. Before this pregnancy I was Pro-Choice I felt that the fetus technically was not a child therefore they could not feel or actually be a human being. But once you are pregnant and you can feel the child inside of you and can feel the kicks and see the child....it is a child, and infant, a human. I am now pro-life. I guess this is just my opionion but it doesnt matter the longevity of the unborn fetus's life, it is still a child who feels, eats, lives, and a living thing no matter the size is still ALIVE. I saw on hear someone posted a picture of a fetus. Doe's it matter the size? If you go fishing and catch a fish to eat it, is it still not killing that fish. Just because it doesnt look human in the early stages is it still not alive?

Sorry for your loss, but I am nevertheless offended that you think YOUR experience trumps anyone else's. Did you WANT to be pregnant? Did you WANT that baby? How can you not understand that your experience is not everyone else's -- that someone else would be pregnant and hate the thing that was inside them?


How in the hell did you get from my post that I feel that my experience trumps everyone elses. I was 18 when I got pregnant, and had only been with my boyfriend for a month. I played college basketball and had a full scholarship to play and had to drop it all. No i didnt want that child and thought of many times to abort it, I regretted it and cried everyday. I felt that way until the first day I felt it move. and I do believe this was people's opinions on the subject am I correct? Therefore, I posted my opinion on the topic at hand, and by no means did I feel My experience trumped anyone elses. And as far as someone who hates whats inside of them, like I reminded myself, I shouldn't have been having sex, if i didn't want the outcome. Women are responsible unless forced, to have sex. Therefore they are responsible for what comes with it.


Don't let close-minded people get to you. If you find a post offensive, you can report them with the links beneath each post.
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replied June 2nd, 2008
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slamdunk wrote:
Women are responsible unless forced, to have sex. Therefore they are responsible for what comes with it.


Yes, you are right; and that's why some obtain abortions.
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replied June 2nd, 2008
For sake of argument, let's assume that the fetus has a soul. The question then becomes, what happens to this soul if the fetus dies? Does it make any difference if the fetus dies from a miscarriage or an abortion?

If this soul goes to a bad place, then these Pro-Life people have sent this soul to a bad place with a miscarriage. If this soul goes to a good place, then the soul of the aborted fetus goes there also. Is this correct?
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