To Luvetiedye

Thank you very much, that was a comforting read and I completely agree with what you wrote. The fact that any choice we make in life has pros and cons, it then comes down to the person who makes and nothing is peaches and cream.

It scares me when I actually know an older person who had a back alley abortion and lived to tell. Its scary to thing she didn't have any other problems minus consistent uterine infections because the instruments were not clean.

Thanks again!!

I'm catholic but I don't subscribe to the church views that birth control is evil. NFP is certainly not realiable and it's just not wrong for couples living in a chirstian marriage. The church needs to get updated on this and I think it will eventually. Now you say birth control used in people who just want to sleep around with no intention to have a moral and christian relationship that would not be okay but then it's the person attitude not the birth control the guilty one.

Are you implying that people who don't have a moral Christian relationship are evil/immoral?

you seem to forget Christianity is not the only religion and the ten reasons why not everyone follows it.

I don't think abortion itself is right or wrong. It depends on the circumstances, and the reasons why you want one.

In some cases it is not the woman's / couple's fault and therefore it might be what is right for them.

Define "fault" please!

I think this thread gets five stars for comedic value.

I wasn't trying to place blame. What I meant by "fault" was that sometimes a woman can become pregnant for reasons she cannot help or control - ie it is nothing she has done wrong.
For example if a woman gets pregnant as a result of rape, she was not planning on getting pregnant, she was not planning on having unprotected sex, she is pregnant for reasons she cannot help.
Or as a result of contraception failing a couple. They have actively taken steps to prevent it, the reason the woman became pregnant was not due to anything they could have controlled, it was due to a fault with the contraception.



Comedic value in what way?

If there were ever an example of men using "the word of God" to control the masses, here it is! Jesus said women should be subordinate to their husbands in EVERYTHING! So, if he decides to take up molesting your children as a hobby, better not get above your station and do anything to stop him, or Jesus will be sad! Do as you're told, because once you get married, women are a part of their husband's bodies but don't be bummed 'cause nobody hates their own body!

I'll do it. I've stated elsewhere on this board that I believe abortion is killing. Furthermore, it's killing a human life. However, because the human in question is dependent on another human's body functions for its survival, I grant the host human the right to evict its occupants. I wouldn't say that the unborn don't deserve a "chance" at life. They do, and they got it by being conceived, but they don't deserve a guarantee - which none of us get anyway. An inhospitable mother is just one of the infinite things that could rob a baby of the chance to be born.

Abortion is sad, and there's no two ways about it. If you're looking for someone who can call it like it is and still be pro-choice, ummm. RIGHT HERE!

GreyWolf
replied on March 1st, 2009
Experienced User I wasn't trying to place blame. What I meant by "fault" was that sometimes a woman can become pregnant for reasons she cannot help or control - ie it is nothing she has done wrong.
For example if a woman gets pregnant as a result of rape, she was not planning on getting pregnant, she was not planning on having unprotected sex, she is pregnant for reasons she cannot help.
Or as a result of contraception failing a couple. They have actively taken steps to prevent it, the reason the woman became pregnant was not due to anything they could have controlled, it was due to a fault with the contraception-



hmm..you do have some point there..the pregancy due to rape..but maybe instead of having it aborted you could have the child adopted?or have the child taken care of in an orphanage?in that way you could give him/her the chance to live..

[quote="GreyWolf"]I wasn't trying to place blame. What I meant by "fault" was that sometimes a woman can become pregnant for reasons she cannot help or control - ie it is nothing she has done wrong.
For example if a woman gets pregnant as a result of rape, she was not planning on getting pregnant, she was not planning on having unprotected sex, she is pregnant for reasons she cannot help.
Or as a result of contraception failing a couple. They have actively taken steps to prevent it, the reason the woman became pregnant was not due to anything they could have controlled, it was due to a fault with the contraception.

[hmm..you do have some point there..the pregancy due to rape..but maybe instead of having it aborted you could have the child adopted?or have the child taken care of in an orphanage?in that way you could give him/her the chance to live..

lostandy, in the case of rape and becoming pregnant, some women are so torn with what has just happened and emotionally not well after such a tramatic event has taken place, that keeping and birthing the child to place in an adoption agency might not be the best thing for them.
some women who have an experience so tramatic like this might not care about what happens to them and could harm themselves, or other, and the life of that child could be in danger and their own life could be in danger.

i know some people who have developed eating disorders after being raped. so to just say why not adoption, is much bigger than you think.
this could be something really terrible for this woman to have to go through.

its still her choice, she should not be obligated to do something because others this its right. this could be right for her.

Adoption only works for women that can/will incubate the resulting pregnancy without going mad or blowing their own brains out to escape the constant reminder of their assault.

Personally, I would rather die than incubate the demon spawn of my rapist.

I really don't like when people call the unborn the "demon spawn" or something similar when it is a product of rape. I'm not saying abortion is wrong in these cases (I see it as a serious health issue becaue many women WOULD probaby hurt themselves or the baby), but that is insulting to those who were conceived by rape. When do they stop being "demon spawns"? At birth? Or are they still "demon spawns" because their "father" is a rapist?

Rape is a traumatic experience enough on its own for any woman to have to handle, but then if she gets pregnant by it, she has to deal with the (emotional and physical) consequences of what he has done to her. She has to carry the rapist's offspring in her body for nine months, give birth (which in itself can be a very traumatic experience) and even if she gives the baby up for adoption she has to cope with the fact that HER baby, is wandering around out there being brought up by someone other than her. It acts as a constant reminder of the attack on her. Many women (but not all) find it very difficult to love a baby that is the result of a rape.

Some women choose to go through with the pregnancy and keep the baby, and love it, and well done to them.

Giving the baby for adoption is for some women much harder to do than abort (and no woman WANTS an abortion, it's very unpleasant, she does it because she feels she has no other option). You have carried them in your body for nine months and some women DO form a strong bond with them, despite the fact they didn't want them.
Yet if you know you cannot care for that child, emotionally, physically or financially, giving it up for adoption must break your heart. Some children do find very loving adoptive parents and are very happy, and that's great. But some children don't find that family. Adoption, far from what people tend to think is not the "easy way out".
Also sooner or later that child is going to want to know why you "gave them away". Could you tell them why? How would that knowledge affect them? Depending on when in their life you tell them, some children feel very guilty but its not something they should ever have to feel guilty about. Again some children aren't bothered when they find out, and that's good. They might want to meet you but could you cope with meeting them?

I myself could never ever give a child up for adoption. I would not be able to live with myself. Similarly if I found out I was a child conceived by rape, I don't know how well I would cope with that either.
For some people, adoption IS the right choice and I'm not knocking them at all. I'm not saying that anyone who gives their child up for adoption is heartless. Far from it. They want to give their child a chance.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm not saying that abortion is the only answer. I believe as a pro-choicer that we need to reduce unwanted pregnancies and the need for abortions in the first place. Abortion, adoption and keeping the baby are just as difficult as each other, it's not about aborting all unwanted pregnancies, it's about detemining what the woman feels is best for both herself and her potential baby and looking at all three possible solutions.

I agree.

This is the perogative of the pregnant woman. If she regards the product of insemination by a rapist as demon spawn, that is her right -- and no one should think of stopping her from aborting it. If someone is full of forgiveness or feels somehow compelled to allow it to gestate, then maybe that woman does not regard it as demon spawn. A woman who has been raped is the only one who can decide that.

Believing something doesn't make it true. I mean, what if for some reason she allows her baby to be born, but she instead gives it up for adoption because she cannot stand raising it? Is it still demon spawn? It would be her opinion, but certaintly not true and insulting to those born from rape because to believe that of your OWN, you would have to believe that of others.

I think it would be up to the individual who is a product of rape to overcome the fact of their conception.

But I hold to the view that if a woman who is raped wants the wrench out and destroy the demon spawn infesting her, then she is the one to make that call. She is not making a judgement on anyone else if that is how she feels -- it's YOU who are extrapolating and generalising, and negating the validity of the emotions of a rape victim.

To me, it would have been. I don't know if you've ever experienced sexual assault but the thought of living through something like that again and finding out I've got something growing inside of me as a result would be enough to drive me over the edge...especially if I were forced to share my body with said result.