Abortion Debate Forum - Who is responsible for a woman's decision?

NeutralUsername

replied on May 19th, 2009

Active User, very eHealthy

Force doesn't have to be done physically. What if the man threatens her and she feels for her safety? If he's abusive, then she may feel pressured to do it. Do you think it's easy for a woman to just simply leave an abusive man? Why do you think she can easily tell the doctor doing the procedure that the man threatened her? If you think it is easy for a woman to tell the doctor that she feels coerced into having an abortion, you would have to think that it would be easy for a woman to report her abuse to the authorities. You do realize many women DON'T do so because of FEAR? Maybe the woman does deep down inside agrees to the abortion, but that is probably because she KNOWS he will do harm to her if she stays pregnant o harm the baby if born!

|

Phenicks

replied on May 19th, 2009

Experienced User

And in the case Neautra is taking about is vastly different than just overall deciding that even if you were with someone who pretty much worshipped you and would never hurt you and always protect you that you'd STILL have an abortion if you got pregnant.

BUT the difference in situations doesn't deter the fact that an unborn child's life is ended via abortion. If its legal to abort for quality of life of the fetus it has to be legal to abort for quality of life of the mother. Whether or not it is MORAL to do so at all or for any reason is up to the standard-low or high- of the woman or girl getting an abortion. Morality for all is not created equal some people are much more moral and considerate than others, thats just a fact of life but no noe should be forced into being as moral as the next person. You can switch moral for religious, good, considerate, kind, sweet, thoughtful, generous etc.

I do think Norma is very wrong in her contempt of others who want an abortion when she fought tooth and nail to abort the fetus who is now a living breathing ful fledged human being. Maybe her conscious weighs on her that her fight, while beneficial to the rest of the women in the country, leaves her relationship with her adult child in a very precarious situation, THis person whoever they are knows whether doubt that their mother wanted them aborted and fought VERY hard to be sure they didn't see the light of day and to be sure no other woman would be punished the way he or she was a punishment for their mother. Thats some tough stuff to deal with. I hoped this person was adopted but what I read says she (Norma) kept the baby and raised him/her. That had to be rough once they got to any con law class and really rough on Norma that she didn't get to have the abortion that she now fights hard to keep other people from getting. I think she's bitter.

|

diamondsz

replied on May 19th, 2009

Extremely eHealthy

Being in a position of being on the other side and caving in I have to agree, it was my choice and I am completely responsible for it. The point you make is fantastic, it’s only been a few months I have been thinking like that, realizing, I always had the choice. No matter how much we feel forced, coerced or that we have to do something is absolutely BS, it is something we can change but can be painful.

The point is and this is what I understand or how I think about it, is if I can't make my own reproductive choices, then who will? Will it ever come to a point that I will only have power over my brain? So basically for myself and other women, when it comes to being politically correct I have to own up to my reproductive choices whether they were right or wrong, I made them but if I can’t own up, then I am indecisive. What do you guys think happens when we all don’t make good choices, some new legislation is brought out or someone will have power over our decisions.

|

Users who thank diamondsz for this post: Darkmoon

Phenicks

replied on May 19th, 2009

Experienced User

But I don't think there will be an "all" makes bad choices. Because morality varies from person to person what's bad changes as well as what's good.

The onyl real change I think will come is that witht eh advancement of modern science the point of viability will be upped from where it is now to being in the low 20 weeks and that will effect how late an abortion can be obtained but not whether or not abortion will no longer be elective pre-viability.

And yes you should OWN all of your decisions, good or bad, with regret or without because we're adults. When you blame others for your choices you open teh doors for those others to actually start making chocies FOR you because blaming someone else for your choice means you can't decide what's best for you. It means you can't make good decisions for yourself because you're leaving it up to others. Take charge of your choices, own the mand don't be ashamed form them, if anything learn from them but try not to regret. This Norma chick has me really annoyed with her antics, she really should just sit down and shut up until she decides what she wants to be and do when she grows up and work on growing up.

|

Users who thank Phenicks for this post: Darkmoon

Darkmoon

replied on May 19th, 2009

Active User, very eHealthy

NUN, did you not read the disclaimer and the part about my OWN controlling ex? I'm well aware of the stranglehold abusive partners can exert. Are YOU aware that there are many men out there who would threaten the same harm to their partners if they try to abort a pregnancy they don't want? Are you aware that some men purposely try to knock their significant others up on the sly (say oh, I don't know...by LYING about being sterile and arguing/outright refusing to use protection)?

My point is that a woman who is determined to carry her pregnancy to term would not easily give in and have an abortion and all it takes is a single word at the clinic to put a stop to it before it begins. I have seen women with some serious baby rabies and I simply can't imagine them giving up a wanted pregnancy at someone else's insistence, any more than I would carry to term because someone (whether it's the law, protesters or my partner) tries to bully or manipulate me into doing it.

I have more faith in women's intelligence and fortitude than that. A person that would jump in front of a car to save her born child isn't the kind of person that wouldn't at least try to protect a wanted pregnancy and even if she fails, the option was there.

If they MUST finger-point at someone else, then the blame should be placed on the person or people who they feel "forced" them to abort, not the procedure itself. Other women shouldn't be denied a free choice because theirs was compromised by fear or guilt.

And again I ask, what makes one form of coercion bad but another okay? At least I think it's equally wrong on both sides to try and force a woman either way but prolifers don't care if manipulation, intimidation or outright force is used to keep a woman pregnant against her will.

Should women have the final say in whether to abort or not? If it's not acceptable for someone to try and mandate that she abort, it's not acceptable for someone to mandate that she incubate against her will, either.

These women are hypocrites. If they really feel the choice was taken from them, how DARE they turn around and treat the rest of their gender to the same abuse? Maybe it's just that misery loves company...

|

Darkmoon

replied on May 19th, 2009

Active User, very eHealthy

I'd also like to point out that if women are unable to obtain a legal abortion, abusive partners are more likely to try a home remedy such as a baseball bat or a gun to rid themselves of the "problem".

How will making abortion legal stop abusive men from trying to forcibly ridding their partners of a pregnancy the men don't want? It won't. In fact, it will result in more dead or maimed women. At least if the legal option is there, women who are being threatened into walking through those clinic doors can pacify their abusive partners long enough to open their mouths and ask for help.

The option needs to be there for all women and those who fake concern for domestic abuse victims aren't thinking straight when they say that yanking the legal right to abort out from under women will stop men from trying to force an end to the pregnancy. Plenty of abusive men use the beating method already. Take away their victims' ability to even pretend to comply with abortion demands and you'll have a lot of women's blood on your hands.

|

Phenicks

replied on May 19th, 2009

Experienced User

You know Darkmoon I find myself in complete agreeance with your last post. *frame the moment* lol

It's a statistical fact that a woman is more prone to violence and abuse when she's pregnant. In fact just last week here in my area a young woman was MURDERED by her unborn child's father. He called her at 4am to meet up with him, sh eleft home and by 6:50ish am she was found murdered. He's at large but stories like that are a dime a dozen. Desperate men go to deplorable measures. Thats part of the reason I advocate that men not be forced into parenthood, some people will fight, maim, or homicide to not be forced into parenthood and its responsibilities. That young lady didn't deserve what happened to her but pro-lifers have got to be kidding me to think it doesn't happen often. These are the same kinds of men I'd suspect of being abusive to born children and their mothers.

|

Darkmoon

replied on May 19th, 2009

Active User, very eHealthy

Phenicks wrote:

You know Darkmoon I find myself in complete agreeance with your last post. *frame the moment* lol

OMG, we're agreeing on some things! I'll bet it's winter in hades right now. Razz

Phenicks wrote:

It's a statistical fact that a woman is more prone to violence and abuse when she's pregnant. In fact just last week here in my area a young woman was MURDERED by her unborn child's father. He called her at 4am to meet up with him, sh eleft home and by 6:50ish am she was found murdered. He's at large but stories like that are a dime a dozen. Desperate men go to deplorable measures. Thats part of the reason I advocate that men not be forced into parenthood, some people will fight, maim, or homicide to not be forced into parenthood and its responsibilities. That young lady didn't deserve what happened to her but pro-lifers have got to be kidding me to think it doesn't happen often. These are the same kinds of men I'd suspect of being abusive to born children and their mothers.

Absolutely. Pregnancy can be fatal for some women and not because of maternal complications. I think more needs to be done against domestic violence and harassment. I don't know about everywhere else but I used to live in a state where obtaining a restraining order was difficult and the police were waaaay too slow to respond to calls for help with a violent/potentially violent family member or partner. One of my best friends had an abusive cop as a father and it took her poor mother YEARS to get free of him. Because he was in law enforcement she couldn't have gotten help if she tried and one day he came close to making my friend watch while he shot her mother and two brothers. I don't know if he really would have done it or if it was just a way to tighten his noose of fear on them all but it scarred them for life.

I don't think it's compassionate or wise to gamble with women's lives when there are men that will kill, cause miscarriage themselves or drag the woman to an illegal butcher to avoid parenthood. Not to mention, women on the opposite spectrum would be further at risk if they couldn't obtain an abortion under safe, confidential circumstances. Some guys are just as violently determined to see their offspring born, regardless of whether the woman is willing to carry it or not.

I would like to think a woman who has experienced coercion or intimidation would understand how wrong it is, but now that I think of it, there's a certain kind of logic behind it. Her power was taken from her so she tries to regain it by taking power from others. I've caught myself doing it on occasion but it took years for me to recognize when I was doing it.

I'm not unsympathetic but it's like the old adage says: Two wrongs don't make a right. Women who felt backed into a corner when they agreed to abort aren't changing what happened to them and what they did by advocating that other women should have their choice removed or restricted.

|

diamondsz

replied on May 19th, 2009

Extremely eHealthy

Darkmoon wrote:

[
I'm not unsympathetic but it's like the old adage says: Two wrongs don't make a right. Women who felt backed into a corner when they agreed to abort aren't changing what happened to them and what they did by advocating that other women should have their choice removed or restricted.

When we are not strong enough we cower, we cower and eventually mold to something called a victim, somehow our stories become dramatic, less heard and over played. Some of us go from victim to abuser, instead of cowering we abuse the power and think that by throwing it, it will make us better but it makes us the same.

Darkmoon wrote:

I would like to think a woman who has experienced coercion or intimidation would understand how wrong it is, but now that I think of it, there's a certain kind of logic behind it. Her power was taken from her so she tries to regain it by taking power from others. I've caught myself doing it on occasion but it took years for me to recognize when I was doing it.

I think we have all been guilty of doing so, isn't this the victim cycle in some, we were victoms and reclaimed some sanity but robbing people at the same... All in all it takes recognitionn of problems to make real people, especially those trying to change.... KUDOS~!

|

Users who thank diamondsz for this post: Darkmoon

Phenicks

replied on May 19th, 2009

Experienced User

I've said it before but I'll say it again, no one should be forced to be a parent, male or female. No woman should be forced to carry a child and no man should be tricked into being with someone who never wants children when clearly he does. I think reproduction is a dealbreaker issue in relationships because there really isn't a compromise, either someone will be a miserable parent or they will be miserable and childless. They can feign happiness but usually people are passionate about really wanting a child or really not wanting one. That passion shouldn't give way to murdering a pregnant woman for being pregnant or murdering a woman because she had an abortion.

Those who were "forced" into an abortion failed when they somehow didn't stand up for the child they wanted. If you can't stand up for you, ow could you be someone's parent and protector? Same goes for someone who was forced into bearing a child.

Norma McCouley should sit down, shut up, admit her part and how without ANYONE'S help she's had SEVERAL abortions before and that her part in the abortion debate has been played. If she had a change of heart, so be it, but to go trying to change legislature--AGAIN-- so that no one else can benefit from it because it was too late for her is illogical.

|

Darkmoon

replied on May 19th, 2009

Active User, very eHealthy

You know diamondz, everybody has their proverbial cross to bear and everyone has a right to complain about it when they've been unfairly cornered. It sounds to me like you were cornered into the "wife/mother" role by society, friends and family members. This happens to a lot of women, just as coerced abortion also happens to a lot of women.

There are two sides of this spectrum and both are equally right. A certain amount of blame must be placed on outside factors and pressure but the ultimate choice whether to conform or rebel is up to the woman, and being as you're on my "side" you've lent me a bit of insight here that otherwise might have been lost. Please take this as a compliment. Not many women are brave enough to step up and admit motherhood isn't/wasn't a pleasant experience for them (women who do so tend to get demonized).

I'm starting to understand the mindset of women who abort and later fight to block other women's right to do it legally. It isn't just the desire to regain power; it's also an odd sense of protecting their fellow females out of the delusion that every woman feels the same as they did. And yes, prochoicers are as guilty of perpetuating the ideal that abortion is a horrible thing. Every time we say "I wouldn't abort but other women can" and "It's a terrible decision to make" we only lend to the idea that abortion is worse than forced incubation.

It makes for an easy target. It makes for some fantastic straw men for the opposition to build and burn. Never mind that root canals aren't fun either and we'd all be advocating ways to stop the need for them because who in their right mind would WANT to have one...they seem to get the impression that promoting abortion as an undesirable thing is somehow admittance to guilt for homicide.

Women who feel no guilt but suffer stupid behavior from uncomfortable men at the mention of abortion are played off as "joyseekers" who purposely get knocked up just so they can abort to feel a tickle in their uterus.

I think the emphasis needs to be placed more on women making better decisions for themselves, according to their individual circumstances and health needs. It comes off as apologetic when a prochoicer says: "I support it, but I'D never do it". That implies that they lack the courage of their conviction and feel there's something inherently wrong about women refusing to allow a fetus to incubate inside of them.

My thoughts are thus: I'm not interested in killing anyone or anything but I'll be darned if I'm going to let anyone or anything use MY body without my expressed permission. If it can survive when I evict it, more power to it. There is no guilt or shame in disallowing the use of one's body to others for survival. If there were, most people should be burning in hell for not donating blood, organs and tissue to save other lives. I could run over someone in my car and be the DIRECT CAUSE of their need for blood to survive but nobody would even consider legal compulsion of a single drop of my blood to save the person that I directly put in the position to need it.

Why should a fetus have more rights over anyone's body than a born person? Why is coercion or force okay if it involves forcing women to share their bodies, but not okay if it involves forcing them to abort?

If women like Diamondz acted like some of these post-abortive converts, they'd be out there trying to make childbirth and marriage illegal. After all, it was wrong for them so it therefore must be just as wrong for every other woman, right?

Fortunately, they have more sense than Roe and others like her and they are willing to deal with their own choices, even if they hurt.

|

Darkmoon

replied on May 19th, 2009

Active User, very eHealthy

Gads, why can't I ever make a simple, short post??

I'm very sorry everyone, for the mini-novel above. ^^

|

diamondsz

replied on May 20th, 2009

Extremely eHealthy

Darkmoon wrote:

There are two sides of this spectrum and both are equally right. A certain amount of blame must be placed on outside factors and pressure but the ultimate choice whether to conform or rebel is up to the woman, and being as you're on my "side" you've lent me a bit of insight here that otherwise might have been lost. Please take this as a compliment. Not many women are brave enough to step up and admit motherhood isn't/wasn't a pleasant experience for them (women who do so tend to get demonized).

Demonized would be a good term and I don't think alot of people understand it, motherhood isn't a pleasant expierence, now don't get me wrong but I see more bad days than I do of good. When I tell people about this, I get asked is there something wrong with you? Are you depressed? Even had child protection services called on me because I felt that way. I provide for my kids, they have clothes, food, a roof over their head, toys, books, a RESP(school fund) but when it comes down to the nurturing thing or patience I lack alot 65%. Although I remember the days of fighting, over kids about who should have them and I realized in this case it was probably better suited for the father or for us to have joint. It just seemed that unless we are together, he wants nothing to do with them, I almost feel like I'm being jailed for something two people did. If I could express it better maybe say "tied down" to something. Don't get me wrong here, I know I have choice but it means me being stressed out of my mind working twice as hard for pennies.

Darkmoon wrote:

I think the emphasis needs to be placed more on women making better decisions for themselves, according to their individual circumstances and health needs. It comes off as apologetic when a prochoicer says: "I support it, but I'D never do it". That implies that they lack the courage of their conviction and feel there's something inherently wrong about women refusing to allow a fetus to incubate inside of them.

I wanted to make shirts that say, I made the choice to parent thats why Im pro-choice, Adoption was the gift gay people never had or I aborted the next hitler...

Darkmoon wrote:

, they'd be out there trying to make childbirth and marriage illegal. After all, it was wrong for them so it therefore must be just as wrong for every other woman, right?

Not too fond of marriage, when i can have a relationship in which I am happy in why should I sacrifice for a piece of paper, unless that person was impeccable lol. In the end I'm still not divorced so I guess I am still married and that would make me a hypocrit.

Darkmoon wrote:

Fortunately, they have more sense than Roe and others like her and they are willing to deal with their own choices, even if they hurt.

I still think Row should jump of a bridge for every abortion she had but now being pro-life she merely looks over at the water, thanking the fact shes alive, must have been a social change....

If she did it out of guilt, well shes entitled to that but she can still be pro-choice but why should she feel guilty when she fought so hard to preserve the very rights she used?

|

Users who thank diamondsz for this post: Darkmoon

Phenicks

replied on May 20th, 2009

Experienced User

diamondsz wrote:

Demonized would be a good term and I don't think alot of people understand it, motherhood isn't a pleasant expierence, now don't get me wrong but I see more bad days than I do of good. When I tell people about this, I get asked is there something wrong with you? Are you depressed? Even had child protection services called on me because I felt that way. I provide for my kids, they have clothes, food, a roof over their head, toys, books, a RESP(school fund) but when it comes down to the nurturing thing or patience I lack alot 65%. Although I remember the days of fighting, over kids about who should have them and I realized in this case it was probably better suited for the father or for us to have joint. It just seemed that unless we are together, he wants nothing to do with them, I almost feel like I'm being jailed for something two people did. If I could express it better maybe say "tied down" to something. Don't get me wrong here, I know I have choice but it means me being stressed out of my mind working twice as hard for pennies.

Ok first just as its NOT ok to say abortion is horrible in general it isn't ok to say motherhood is horrible in general. It undermines those who disagrees with you as if we somehow secretly fele the same way but are ashamed to admit it. Not true. I accept that a woman can be glad she had an abortion in leiu of having a baby, please accept that MANY out there are glad they had their babiy(ies) in leiu of having an abortion. Motherhood is GREAT IMO but I wasn't pushed or coerced into it. I could totally understand not liking somethign you never wanted in the first place but that doesn't mean it is bad in general its just bad for you.

diamondsz wrote:

Not too fond of marriage, when i can have a relationship in which I am happy in why should I sacrifice for a piece of paper, unless that person was impeccable lol. In the end I'm still not divorced so I guess I am still married and that would make me a hypocrit.

That makes you unhappy and through divorced you can be happy again. If you find you'd RATHER be married than divorced thats one thing. But really if you're styaing for the children you're doing them no favors. Does your husband know you're unhappy? If you want to stay and make it work marital counseling may help, whether that means an eminent but necessary divorce or a solution to your issues with your marriage.

diamondsz wrote:

I still think Row should jump of a bridge for every abortion she had but now being pro-life she merely looks over at the water, thanking the fact shes alive, must have been a social change....

If she did it out of guilt, well shes entitled to that but she can still be pro-choice but why should she feel guilty when she fought so hard to preserve the very rights she used?

Because her fight for her abortion is VERY public and ther eis an adult woman alive right now for NO other reason than because her mother was FORCED to let her live. Not many people can say they KNOW their mother fought hard, went to the supreme court even to get them evicted form the womb before they could live outside of it or d&x'd if possible so they wouldn't exist. BAorting a fetus is one thing, WANTING to abort one fighting tooth and nail to do so failing and having that fight made public and certainly made known to the fetus-now living breathign human being with emotions and a soul that you, mom, wanted them not to exist is tough stuff ot deal with on either side. No one embraces being rejected by their mother on that level, no matter who they are. It was for the *greater good* but it obviously had a horrible effect on Norma and the daughter. She still ought to sit down somewhere though.

|

diamondsz

replied on May 20th, 2009

Extremely eHealthy

Phenicks....

I think we have a misunderstanding, I'm not saying every mother hates their position. I'm trying to say some of us aren't too keen on it, that some mothers won't admit to it for fear of being demonized.

For example, we may have a disagreement with family does it mean we hate them?

What I wrote is that there is some good days but I recount more bad days than good.

|

NeutralUsername

replied on May 20th, 2009

Active User, very eHealthy

Darkmoon wrote:

NUN, did you not read the disclaimer and the part about my OWN controlling ex? I'm well aware of the stranglehold abusive partners can exert. Are YOU aware that there are many men out there who would threaten the same harm to their partners if they try to abort a pregnancy they don't want? Are you aware that some men purposely try to knock their significant others up on the sly (say oh, I don't know...by LYING about being sterile and arguing/outright refusing to use protection)?

My point is that a woman who is determined to carry her pregnancy to term would not easily give in and have an abortion and all it takes is a single word at the clinic to put a stop to it before it begins. I have seen women with some serious baby rabies and I simply can't imagine them giving up a wanted pregnancy at someone else's insistence, any more than I would carry to term because someone (whether it's the law, protesters or my partner) tries to bully or manipulate me into doing it.

I have more faith in women's intelligence and fortitude than that. A person that would jump in front of a car to save her born child isn't the kind of person that wouldn't at least try to protect a wanted pregnancy and even if she fails, the option was there.

If they MUST finger-point at someone else, then the blame should be placed on the person or people who they feel "forced" them to abort, not the procedure itself. Other women shouldn't be denied a free choice because theirs was compromised by fear or guilt.

And again I ask, what makes one form of coercion bad but another okay? At least I think it's equally wrong on both sides to try and force a woman either way but prolifers don't care if manipulation, intimidation or outright force is used to keep a woman pregnant against her will.

Should women have the final say in whether to abort or not? If it's not acceptable for someone to try and mandate that she abort, it's not acceptable for someone to mandate that she incubate against her will, either.

These women are hypocrites. If they really feel the choice was taken from them, how DARE they turn around and treat the rest of their gender to the same abuse? Maybe it's just that misery loves company...

I don't understand. There are women who do give birth against their will and they feel to frightened to do anything about it. Why do you think it is easy for a woman to tell the doctor that she is being forced to get an abortion? Not ALL abuse victims are the same.

|

Phenicks

replied on May 20th, 2009

Experienced User

diamondsz wrote:

Phenicks....

I think we have a misunderstanding, I'm not saying every mother hates their position. I'm trying to say some of us aren't too keen on it, that some mothers won't admit to it for fear of being demonized.

I think that's wrong, you don't know for sure that motherhood is or isn't for you until you become a mother. Some may go into it thinking ahhh this will be GREAT and can't survive the first late night feeding with their sanity in tact. Just as some will think ahhh childless is great and then after they can't conceive naturally, want to and flood the fertility clinics looking for answers. Neither is a regular occurrence but it does happen.

diamondsz wrote:

For example, we may have a disagreement with family does it mean we hate them?

What I wrote is that there is some good days but I recount more bad days than good.

I'm sorry its like that for you it doesn't sound happy when the bad outweighs the good.

On a lighter note, I'm glad we cleared up our disagreements! sunny

|

Darkmoon

replied on May 21st, 2009

Active User, very eHealthy

I think the problem we have here is a lack of empathy. It's easy for someone like myself to imagine what it's like for someone like Diamondz to be in her situation. Someone like Phenicks might not easily undertand because she's satisfied with motherhood. Is it sooo difficult to imagine that not all women find motherhood to be what it's cracked up to be? Is it so hard to imagine that some women don't "fit" into the role and would be better off without children?

This is part of the problem, Phenicks. The insistence that women who don't fully embrace motherhood are somehow mentally deficient only perpetuates parental and marital strife. Women like Andrea Yates end up snapping and killing their children when other people try to force them into a box that doesn't fit their shape. I know I'd be in a mental ward if I gave into society's expectations and that of my family.

One person's trash is another person's treasure. You feel that motherhood is excellent and you have every right to feel that way. However, you do not represent every female and neither do I. Part of the reason women feel so powerless in today's society is because other women trivialize their desires and goals. Some of the meanest, nastiest people are mothers. I have never seen women behave in such an evil manner towards one another as when there's a child involved.

Screw the men, they've got nothing on horrible behavior towards women when it comes to childrearing. I would rather sacrifice both breasts than deal with some of the garbage women throw at one another in motherhood.

Seriously. You mothers scare the living hell out of me, you're so bloody mean to each other.

|

Users who thank Darkmoon for this post: motherofhighspiritedones

Phenicks

replied on May 22nd, 2009

Experienced User

How do you figure that about me? She said the bad day outweigh the good I said that doesn't sound happy. She said marriage sucks I suggest a divorce was I supposed to tell her to suck it up and be happy when she isn't?

There are girls 9 years old married to men just waiting to not so gently take their virginity and divorce is NOT an option for them, they get my sympathy. She can change her situation, I think its not good that she isn't happy but my heart doesn't melt for someone who has the power to change their circumstances and don't. Change is never easy but often necessary.

I KNOW and have said many times motherhood isn't for everyone and some people should recognize in themselves that they aren;t mother material and just leave reproducing to those who are. I wouldn't stop them because what they do is their business and their problem. I have sympathy for her as a mom about her issues with motherhood because its something she can't truly change. SHe could divorce her husband and not be his wife anymore but if she gave him full custody and signed over parental rights, she'd still have knowledge of those kids and others may try to make her feel bad about that. I wouldn't. I think that would be best if she isn't happy in that situation, kids often can sense stuff like that and it causes them stress and hurts their self esteem in the same way being in her situation may stress her and cause her torment.

I say screw what others will think do what you must and make the best choice for you. If she doesn't want to its on her. I didn't make those choices or say she had to do anything so I'm not understanding where the evil is coming from.

BUT I will say this I'm an evil b**** to anyone that dares try to harm my child. If you can't understand that you can't understand true love. I have no compassion for anyone who would want to hurt maim or injure my infant. No apologies for that at all.

|

12 >>