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Q: New Member With Depression And Anxiety
asked by: JohnF on March 4th, 2004
New User
Hi everyone,

well here I am wondering who or what can help me.
But here is a breakdown of why I am here - I have tried (unsuccessfully) to make it as short as pos but got carried away.

I am 49, happily married with a lovely well balanced daughter who becomes a teenager shortly. I have no financial probs (yet), new car on the drive and mortgage paid. Sounds like I shouldn’t have a problem in the world right ?
But... I have now been off work some 3 months with depression, which was triggered by stress at work (call centre).
I have suffered severe depression on and off for some 25 years now.
So I have history. I suffer this ‘illness’ about every couple of years and thinking back the longest period has been 3 months. Each time I have managed to ‘bounce back’ and it is often without the use of any drugs. Right now I can see no light at the end of the tunnel and I have dug a hole that I just can’t seem to find a way to climb out of.
It is probable that my problems are linked to my mother committing suicide when I was 16 and thereafter blaming my father for it. Maybe there is a hereditary link or gene fault somewhere but I have no relatives left , or records, to back this up. For me my childhood has long been a blocked past and it is often extremely difficult to discuss it or remember the bad as well as the good.
My first experience with depression was as a young man serving with the army in belfast in 1979 – I had just been promoted and become engaged. However I had just spent 4 years in germany drinking myself silly and being jack the lad - so I was not ready for the responsibilities thrust on me. The events that occurred are still painfully clear in my memory – but I found myself driving out to a lonely area and swallowing ‘many’ pills.
At some point I drove back to the barracks, shut myself in a toilet and then proceeded to cut my wrist. The classic cry for help I guess yet something forced me to go and get medical attention. I was bandaged up and had my first experience of the stomach pump.
(horrendous experience !)
i was then flown back to england. 6 months of therapy followed and I then left the army. I returned to my hometown penniless and to the council house my father still lived in. I found it difficult to find work and I turned to petty crime. Thankfully I was caught and avoided a prison sentence. I took a government computer course later but it would not help me to find a job in my home town – and so with £5 in my pocket I ‘hitched’ lifts to london to try and make my fortune. I slept rough for a while but I applied for a job with a computer company and, to my surprise, I got it. For the next couple of years life was still hard as I went from one run down bed sit to another – and I still suffered from more severe depressive episodes. Eventually I climbed the promotion ladder and within 5 years I had a managerial role that resulted in a good income and better lifestyle. I bought my first house in the mid 1980’s. I met my wife shortly after and within a year we were engaged. Life was really fantastic and I started experiencing wonderful annual holidays abroad including america and turkey. We sold our own properties and bought a brand new house in 1988 – the following year we got married.
It was the climax to years and years of hard work. But during the honeymoon – I started suffering from depression. Unbelievable as it seems. Was it the stress of organising the wedding or the shock of finding happiness – I still don’t know. But I could not go back to work for 3 months. But go back I did and all was fairly o.K. Until I was made redundant 6 years later. Totally out of the blue and it hit hard. Another long depressive episode followed. (incidentally I cannot remember if I was on any drugs during this or any previous episodes).
After doing a few bum jobs I eventually applied for a job in a call centre. It was difficult but I took to it well. I started with an agency and 18 months later I was successful in being taken on as ‘salaried staff’ with all the benefits of course. I made new friends and took up golf. Everything going well it would seem.
Yet I have suffered 3 major periods of depression since then. All triggered by work stress really. (what else could trigger it ?)
i should add that I took prozac and other sri drugs at some point – even st johns wort got a long look in)
each time I managed to turn the corner again and then return to the workplace.
This current episode follows on from my decision to change to part time hours last spring (after another 'attack). The thought of working reduced hours was a real boost to my confidence – but as a result of this I found myself in a different work area of the company. Doing work I was not really familiar with I guess. I had a couple of panic attacks which forced me to leave the workplace temporarily and then I suffered so badly on one day last november that I have not been back since. I have also been looking for an alternative and less stressful job since. I have not taken any drugs in these 3 months but because I am getting anxiety attacks and waking up with depressed thoughts I now have to think seriously about taking something – but what ? Xanax looked a good option but my gp cannot prescribe it. So possibly I may look at something like valium. I just do not have a clue.
Why do I feel I need such a prop ?. Well apart from the depression and the anxiety (mainly over work) I also ‘believe’ I am a terrible conversationalist and have very poor social skills, I ‘believe’ I have attention deficit disorder and I know I cannot remember things as well as I used to. Am I ‘knocking myself’ unfairly ? Do I really believe I am these things ? Yes I do and basically I don’t think I really like myself either !.
I am pretty much an emotional wreck and though I spend many days cycling and walking to keep myself physically fit I do my best to avoid social contact be it the neighbours or friends. I feel so disappointed with myself – after so many years of hard times and being in the gutter to becoming relatively successful and extremely happy – I have allowed myself to sink to new lows again.
Any advice anyone ? Is there a magic potion that fits my bill. I would love to be able to return to my current workplace (where I only need to work 24 hours a week !) but I get terribly anxious about seeing work colleagues again who have seen me fall off the planet before. That and the loss of confidence in my work are the big stumbling blocks. My company have been great and I have seen occupational health who got me to have 4 sessions with a councellor. (mind it could be argued that my company should have 'risk assessed' me better in my new work role....)

yes – everthing is all about confidence - I know that - but I recognise my frailties all too well. I remember 10 years ago when I 'came back' from a very bad episode. I cannot describe the euphoric feeling I had the next day ! Knowing I had conquered my fears again (but I have never quite had that same exultant rush since)
if any of you lovely people, who are obviously suffering in similar or different ways, can advise on a particular drug that can help me then please do so. Or any other alternative that can help me get out of my hole. I know many professionals take cocaine to keep them going and to give them that 'rush' - but i'm looking at a more ethical option. (or at least something that is recognised as being fairly safe though I am prepared to have to do the long haul knowing so many of these drugs are highly addictive)
finally.. Good luck to you all out there. I’m with you 100%.
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Replies(39)
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qt3
replied on March 5th, 2004
Experienced User
It Takes Effort, But Is Worth It In My Opinion
The answer for me was cognitive behavioral therapy (cbt). I was on meds for many years before I found cbt and it cured me and got me off meds in a remarkably short period of time. Cbt is not like other talk therapy. A good cbt therapist does not care much about your past or why you think you feel the way you do etc. A good cbt therapist knows they cannot change what's already happened to you but they can help you change how you deal with what happens in your life from here on out. It's all about using the tools to learn to think more clearly and accurately about things and once you do your anxiety, panic and depression will miraculously begin to lift before your eyes. My favorite starter book on cbt is "been there, done that? Do this! By sam obitz based on what I have seen with the people I know who used cbt the more dedicated you are to the tools the faster and deeper the recovery regardless of how bad their anxiety was when they got started. It was inspiring to see the people that dove in head first and how fast they started seeing results to those of us like me that were more skeptical and less dedicated to using the tools in the beginning. Like anything in life the more you put in the more you get out of cbt. That's why I think group settings can be especially effective with cbt because you can see the people that are working the hardest to get well making the most progress and it becomes infectious.

Hope this is helpful Smile

q
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Haley
replied on March 5th, 2004
Experienced User
I'm just over halfway through my cbt group (7th week of 12). We meet once a week and we are using the book by sam obitz as our course guide. I like it it because it is a short book and all the chapters in it are short. I'm still learning to use the tea form and it already helps a lot. We have several people in our group who suffer from different forms of health anxiety as well as people suffering from depression, sad, ptsd and panic (which is what i'm there for). It's too early to tell if it will cure us but we are all making progress and begining to believe in cbt. I'll let you know how it turns out but it's definitely worth trying Smile
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JohnF
replied on March 5th, 2004
New User
Thanks Haley And Qt3
Although I was looking at what drugs could alleviate my condition I realise perhaps that I was looking at a fast fix solution. Thanks to your responses I will definately now look into cbt very closely. Will see if I can find some local support group that offers this and will let you know how things go. Thank you both very much and take care. !!! Wink
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baize
replied on March 7th, 2004
New User
Cbt
Hi I used cbt for an eating disorder and it is really true that the more you put in the more you get out. I found it really useful. The best description I ever heard for it is 'it's like a bag of tools, whatever tool you need for that job you can get out and use. Sometimes you need all the tools and sometimes just one, but they are all there for you to use'
i think cbt takes work on each persons part and it can last you forever. Smile
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purple333
replied on March 7th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
While cbt may work it will also take time & energy in the meantime you might try taking some natural therapies, like sam-e & 5htp (check them on a search engine - 5htp is under tryptophan) also yoga. Pilates &/or meditation.

My daughter is on these via her psychiatrist who prefers antural treatments, also she (our family & in her case both sides due to my husband side as well) has brain chemistry/genes which predispose her to depression/stress which you may also have especially as your mum committed suicide.

Keep these therapies in mind for your daughter in case she exhibits any signs. You can get them easily & fast.\ & they don't interfere with meds & certainly don't stop you doing cbt.
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JohnF
replied on March 7th, 2004
New User
Wink
thanks baize and purple333 ! I very much appreciate your welcome advice ! Wink
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qt3
replied on March 8th, 2004
Experienced User
Re: Thanks Haley And Qt3
johnf wrote:
although I was looking at what drugs could alleviate my condition I realise perhaps that I was looking at a fast fix solution. Thanks to your responses I will definately now look into cbt very closely. Will see if I can find some local support group that offers this and will let you know how things go. Thank you both very much and take care. !!! Wink


hi johnf-
glad to hear you are going to look into cbt. I think you will be glad you did :d you may want to call your local university as many offer cbt groups for little or no cost!


Take care.


Q
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qt3
replied on March 8th, 2004
Experienced User
Re: Cbt
baize wrote:
hi I used cbt for an eating disorder and it is really true that the more you put in the more you get out. I found it really useful. The best description I ever heard for it is 'it's like a bag of tools, whatever tool you need for that job you can get out and use. Sometimes you need all the tools and sometimes just one, but they are all there for you to use'
i think cbt takes work on each persons part and it can last you forever. Smile


hi baize and welcome to the boards Laughing
your note is excellent and I love the tool bag analogy (mind if I use that one in future posts?) I always like to tell people cbt is like homework; if you apply yourself and do your homework you will likely get an a or a b, but if you don't do your homework you will get a d or fail. It's not a magic cure, but if you use it you won't need to depend on magic or luck anymore to feel well Shocked

q
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JohnF
replied on March 10th, 2004
New User
Re: New Member With Depression And Anxiety- Cbt/drug Option?
Hi again everyone,
last couple of mornings been very bad for me. I'm sleeping solid, but whereas I have nearly always made do on 6 hour kips, its 9 or 10 hours ! And trying to get up has been horrendous.. Yesterday I was more depressed than normal and the tears flooded out non stop.
Is there anything I can do to overcome the mornings - everytime I read another horror story about seroxat or another drug that is supposed to be the ultimate wonder pill - I wonder if we are all being conned by these drug companies. Wish there was a magic pill though.. Especially one that would make me greet the day with a big 'i'm happy to be alive' feeling.
At least by the afternoon I am much more in control.
I am still pursuing cbt as my best option particularly after reading the following at :
http://www.Social-anxiety.Org.Uk/stories/j ackie.Htm
i thought brilliant ! This lady lives just a few miles from me and is running cbt workshops but, sadly, her email address shown at the end of her story is invalid and I have no way of contacting her.
As an alternative I went into town today and visited the offices of
the gloucestershire primary mental health team (part of the gloucestershire partnership nhs trust.). They could not tell me much about cbt but told me that the local college runs a 4 week (2 hrs a week) stress management workshop. The next one starts in mid may - and that is some time away really. But I won't rule out attending this (it only costs £5 as the nhs foot most of the costs !)
as with most days I start with 3 aspros. When I stopped work 3 months ago (the door is still open for me to return by the way) it was work stress that brought on really bad headaches. Now I get a headache from a social situation ! As experienced today ! (and I was having a pint with a life long friend ! Could not feel relaxed even then - but I guess its the constant worry I put on myself)
i have read that it is not uncommon for people with depression/anxiety to think they have something wrong with 'their head' and that they need a mri scan. Jesus -even i'm wondering if I need one now !
Anyway I got to go now - my wife (god bless her) is home and I have to pick my daughter up from skool !
'speak' to you all soon - hopefully with something positive to say.
John
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qt3
replied on March 10th, 2004
Experienced User
Hi john,
i agree with you on your suspicions about the drug companies they make a lot of money on their drug sales. I helped support several drug compnaies over the years before I discovered cbt. I'm encouraged to hear you are looking into it further as if you apply yourself to the tools you will be glad you did :d I didn't realize you were in england. It's probably a longshot but see if any library in your area has the book I mentioned by sam obitz. It is a real simple introduction to cbt and written in an inspiring way and I think it may help and motivate you Shocked

take care and I hope you are feeling better today!

Q
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JohnF
replied on March 10th, 2004
New User
Re: New Member With Depression And Anxiety
Thanks again qt3 ! And yes - I am in england. Have now discovered a group fairly nearby that runs cbt courses. Keeping a bit more optimistic now about the future. I think I can order the sam obitz book from the web but I need to take one slow step at a time first. Thanks for the guidance ! Will keep you all tuned in to how I get along in the weeks and months ahead. Best wishes from our country to yours ! Wink
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2ferano
replied on March 10th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
Well, I think you need to talk to a psychiatrist. There is no reason that you should have to suffer like this. I am glad you are also looking into cbt, but I think you should find out exactly what is wrong with you. (i do not mean that in an ignorant way, you know what I mean) it almost sounds like you are manic. You get into these horrible states of depression, but when you are happy you are euphoric. Plus, having bipolar disorder can lead into social anxiety disorder among other things. As far as the drugs go, listen to your psychiatrist. Since you are already trying cbt, then maybe you will not even need to go to the doctor, but I don't think it could hurt. Plus, you are hitting that "midlife crisis" age. Not that everyone has one, but it can happen. That could be what is bringing on this new period of depression. But what do I know. You sound like a wonderful person and I hope you can find your light at the end of the tunnel! Let us know how you are doing!
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JohnF
replied on March 10th, 2004
New User
Re: New Member With Depression And Anxiety
You are so so right 'hotasfrick' (interesting choice of userid !)

...On reflection I think I have always needed something to give me a buzz. Whether it is various hobbies or a challenge at work. And there is no doubt that I can think back to certain situations where I have experienced huge highs of euphoria ! Similar to passing a driving test but better. Almost like the kind of rush speed or cocaine might give (and this coming from someone who has never experimented with these). With me the highs are adrenalin ones. And today ? Perhaps in 'mid life' and now having most of the things I have ever wanted (chased for) in life I am now devoid of any challenges ? Yep - I must be bipolar though I must be selfish too. And though I feel wretched at times I do still feel that occassional little spark inside me. It would not take much to get me all fired up again I know. For the last 8 years I have worked in a call centre and it is extremely demanding at times and most of the people only know each other on a nod and a wink basis (most of us spend our working day infront of a pc running complex programmes, wearing a headset and dealing with 'mostly' difficult customers. And within the 8 hour working day there are just two 10 minute breaks ! And yet that was a terrific challenge at one time for me - it really gave me some buzz.
But within those 8 years I am now on my 3rd lengthy period off and really it has been triggered by the stress of the job (not saying 'no' enough times !). The company has kindly sent its managers round to my home again (people I know very well), occupational health have visited and I have had 4 'free' councelling sessions. All to no avail.
It is the thought of facing 'all those people' in the company and returning to 'that' environment that brings on the nerves - more than anything. Irrational (to most) I know. But equally I realise I had not 'kept up' with all the changes there. So it is a job change I am seeking 'outdoors' now and I am filling more application forms today (applying for meter reader jobs which offer flexible hours, will keep me fit and allow me to 'speak to people' more often).
Whether I will get a job or not I am going to 'try and avoid' seeking a shrink. I will go to the cbt workshops mentioned previously.
As an observation - I feel that people with my illness just find themselves swamped with so much literature, advice lines, help groups and drug options that it is difficult to know 'which direction' to take ! Don't get me wrong because I know there are a lot of very caring people out there who want to help me/us. (i even considered going into 'caring' myself - give a little bit back - but I am poorly qualified (academically anyway))
yesterday I watched a neighbour of mine having an in depth conversation with another neighbour and I cannot remember the last time I shared a conversation with a neighbour that lasted with more that a hello ! Now i'm not running myself down deliberately here - just stating a fact. I have never been one of those people who can stop and chat for a lengthy period with someone - whether it is in the street or in the pub. I don't blush or anything I just stall in mid conversation or cannot think of a suitable topic to carry on the conversation. Often I find it difficult to also remember people I have met years before - which is very frustrating as my wife has a remarkable memory. Sometimes I can even walk past people without recognising them ! And I guess the reason is because I never properly 'observe' people in the first place.
And shyness plays a part ?
Yet - I do want to be like my neighbour and others.
Hopefully cbt will help
sorry this has been so damn lengthy
thanks again 'hotasfrick'.
Will keep in touch
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2ferano
replied on March 11th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
You are welcome. I can relate very well. Your job is probably not challenging enough for someone of your intelligence level. When you get these "highs" you want to challenge yourself and do something different or whatever, and sitting in front of a pc talking to primarily "stupid" people is just not going to do it for you. I am proud that you have held out this long! I usually have to be cross-trained in whatever job I do, so that I switch jobs from time to time. Otherwise, I get bored and seek a new profession. Not good for stability, but my mind does not care. Working outside sounds good, or working with people. Not on the telephone, but face to face. You would probably not like it at first, but it would help you overcome one of your biggest challenges!! I also and not the type to just strike up a conversation with a neighbor or a stranger. But if I am in a comfortable work environment where I deal with public, I find it easy to talk to "customers." this helps me sometimes.
Good luck with your job search and your other searches, and I wish you the best!
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Haley
replied on March 11th, 2004
Experienced User
Hi johnf again. I hope cbt helps you as much as it is begining to help me Smile
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JohnF
replied on March 11th, 2004
New User
Re :new Member With Depression And Anxiety
Smile thanks haley ! (and for your previous post)
i noted that you were halfway through your cbt course so do let me know how everything turns out for you ! How much do you believe sam obitz's book has helped you personally ? Is it a case of 'putting into practice' what the book teaches you perhaps ? I am a little wary of purchasing a guide that maybe has an overbias on americanism - after all we english are recognised as being a somewhat reserved race (even our humour is different - e.G. The full monty and the benny hill show) - perhaps it needs a home grown author/british version that I would be more comfortable with (hope i'm explaining myself properly here). This is not meant as a disrespectful comment - and it may make me sound judgemental before I have even read sam's book. (hell.... I may just buy it anyway !)
i don't know anything about your past life experiences but I sense perhaps you have experienced equal trauma and hardships at some stages. Continue the cbt, keep at it and I am sure you will get the rewards. I will be doing the same.
Bye for now - and heres a big Laughing from england !
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purple333
replied on March 11th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
There are a few wonderful psych's around but alot who do nothing other than prescibe the latest fad medication whereas there are many natural "drugs" (the ones we used before drug companies & governments intervened to make $$ & also the ones the drug companies can't make because they can't patent them because they are natural!! So as the comapanies won't make $$ they don't get the drs to prescibe them & we miss out - well not entirely - some drugs help some people but many drugs have side effects both short & long term which we get along with the drug & then sometimes need other medications to deal with these side effects!!.

Please consider trying sam-e, &/or 5htp &/or vitamin b's. Also in regard to your headaches in the morning, have you considered that they may be helped by changing your pillow &/or sleeping position, also you might find that going for a 30 minute walk ( peaceful one not a power walk!!) around dawn might help, many people find this exhilarating & motivating, also there's something in the suns rays at this time (even if it's overcast) that works on our brain chemicals to balance stress. Who knows you might even meet others out & about & slowly get to know them with a hello & work up to full convrsations slowly -- baby steps!!
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JohnF
replied on March 12th, 2004
New User
Wink thanks purple333 (and also to 'hotasfrick' for your previous very helpful post !)
you are not the first to mention an early walk at dawn as being very therapeutic ! (and if the sleet and snow has cleared from my area tomorrow that is exactly what I am going to do !)
looking back at the times I have 'successfully' recovered from stress/depression I can recollect that 'vigorous' exercise also played a big part in that that recovery. Supposedly exercise release 'mood elevating pherenomes' which make us happy amongst other things. I know I would literally run or cycle as fast as was humanly possible and end up a blubbering knackered wreck afterwards but I did feel damn good ! It was a big help then so I should be doing this again. I really had forgotten this aspect of 'recovery' so i'm going on a run or cycle ride (rather than the brisk walk) tomorrow and hopefully the sun will shine on me at the same time.
I will 'look into' sam-e but i'm in danger of swamping myself with all these pill options quite frankly. Interestingly I see there is a is a major breaking story on our bbc news today about the dangers of seroxat.. Though I cannot possibly comment on something I have never tried. It 'might' well work for some (with the right dose) but clearly it has caused disastrous side effects for others. (i appreciate sam-e is not to be compared with these type drugs of course)
as for my headaches - they are probably 'stress' related really. I certainly get them often after a 'nervous social' encounter but I also get them when I am just doing something round the house and I start think/worrying over something.
Thanks for all the advice folks ! Keep well everyone. Would be interested to hear of anyone else who has tried cbt or gone down the pill road or tried other options. Of course a cure for one is not necessarily a cure for another though.
Cheers ! Laughing
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purple333
replied on March 12th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
You are right, so go to some search engines & check out the various options (natural & other) for yourself & see what "feels" right for you. You might also try talking to the pharmacist & health food store operators & going to some other sites & checking out various pills via search engines. A couple of sites you may find useful are life extension foundation - www.Lef.Org or www.Stressdiagnosis.Com or biosynergy.Com they do sell stuff but also give information free.
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