I was under the impression that the clinic gives you a form to fill out if you want to do this. I agree with that.

I think that as long as the 'parent' or 'donator' agrees and signs a consent form, it is a great idea.

This is tricky for me because I believe that life begins at conception and therefore these are unique, albeit very developmentally immature, human beings and I don't like the idea of 'spare' embryos after fertility treatment being destroyed let alone experimented on.

B.U.T I can appreciate how the lives of born people can be greatly improved with the use of stem cell technology. For example, my mum and brother could get their eyesight back.

Rock...me...hard place.

Oh yeah? COol.

I'd been under the impression that since the bill .bush signed, the only embryos that could be used for research were the ones already in the system...

What do you think is better though? Having that potential child help someone, or just dying without any usefulness?

It's the same idea (in my mind) as organ donation on your driver's license. Mine is signed and official. I figure that if I'm dead, I don't need them anymore.

I read an interesting thing recently about when life "starts". To sum it up, not nearly as eloquently as it was presented, the blastocyte is made up of two cells, both alive-the ovum and the sperm. These single alive cells were manufactured by an alive human being. These alive human beings were manufactured by these alive cells, who were manufactured by an alive human being... and so on and so forth.

So, if one were to believe that life starts at conception, they must consider that life really started millions of years ago (if you believe in evolution).

Nothing is dead within the whole process.

Does that make sense? I'll try to find it.

That is beautiful ^^.

And that's also why I think viability is a far better stopper for abortion, not that this is the abortion debate.

"Having that potential child help someone, or just dying without any usefulness?"

correction....
Having that Child with potential help someone

This is why I am against IVF

It's not a child with potential.

It IS going to be destroyed.

I frown upon IVF for a different reason: infertile couples should adopt.

that's kind of close minded eiri, they aren't all infertile. my cousin was 22 and had been trying to get pregnant for several years (yeah young, but she'd been married since 19) and she couldn't get pregnant. at that age would you just want to give up? she ended up doing ivf and got pregnant and now has 4 year old triplets, they aren't all infertile, some just have a hard time getting pregnant.

I didn't say everyone who uses IVF is infertile. I said the ones who are and who do should adopt.

Why?

Because I believe that if nature has rendered you incapable of normal fertilization, you should adopt to care for the babies that women give up for adoption or children who are taken from abusive families.

It's like adopting a dog from a shelter, or paying $3,000 for a purebred. The shelter dog will love you with all his soul, the purebred may very well have health and personality issues.

Also, some parents sicken me when they say "I couldn't love an adopted child as much because it wouldn't be mine". That makes me so angry.

i understand what you're saying eiri, sorry i hope i didn't come off rude in my post, i guess when i read that i just assumed you meant all ivf and were saying that anyone who needed it was infertile, i apologize. but i totally get what you're saying.

That's okay; it's good to make me clarify!

"It's not a child with potential.

It IS going to be destroyed."

You have the potential to be a race car driver even if someone were going to kill you, not only would they be killing you but also your potential.

It is a child with potential until it is destroyed.

I cant see why we need to destroy them, how about those waiting to adopt why not extend adoption to embryonic children.

BTW Eiri Very good moral judgment on the IVF thing its not the primary reason why I am against it but your reason certainly only reinforces my belief that it is wrong.

Lol! They are up for adoption!

How do you 'adopt' a frozen egg?

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial _opinion/oped/articles/2005/12/04/how_do_y ou_adopt_a_frozen_egg/

Snowfalkes Frozen Embryo Adoptions
http://www.nightlight.org/snowflakefaqsap. htm

What is the difference between people who are infertile and people who cannot conceive without IVF?

Wow. Embryos thrown out or giving people back their eyesight. I'm sorry, I just don't see the tough choice.

To be truly infertile, it must be impossible for you to conceive through natural methods (in my book). There are some women who use IVF who could conceive normally, but they are simply having difficulty doing so.