Hi, Kaworu:

First off, welcome to the group (I think). I’m so sorry you’re suffering.

Second off, I’m old enough to be your mom and I’ve been through what you’ve been through. I won’t give you “mom” advice because I don’t have children (and if they were like me they wouldn’t listen anyway) Even though I am female I can be extremely unforgiving for things done by my sex. Women can be terribly cruel (but so can men).

To get to your concern:

1. You had this female friend that, for awhile was more than a friend and it appeared the feeling was mutual.

2. You wanted to “pop the question”. What exactly do you mean? Not *the* question—at least I hope not. I think you’re waaaay too young to even think about marriage. Or are you talking about “do you want to have a mutually exclusive relationship (we used to call it “going steady”)”?

3. She found someone new and has pretty much put you out of her life, but then she’ll ask questions that people ask each other (“how ya doin’”, “long time no see” and the like). You may not realize it but people ask those kind of questions just to make superficial conversation (it happens in the working world). It’s not like they necessarily care how you’re feeling unless that person and you really are friends.

4. You’re heart-broken because she’s dropped you. I’m not certain what you mean “denied everything”—what did she deny? Is it possible that you put her on the spot with some kind of an accusatory question and it was easier her to cut the conversation short and just say something to drive you away?

Do I have this right?

So why do women behave that way? Because right now she’s fickle and immature. I must admit that I did that when I was in the first year of secondary school (or do you call it “high school”—from some of your terms you’re either from Canada or some place where British English is spoken) I was “in love” with a new guy every couple of weeks or so it seems and the old guy just ceased to exist because of the infatuation with the “new guy”.

I ignored the “old guy” because it was just easier than to tell him that I had a “new guy”. I know it hurt him a great deal but we both ended up getting over it and became close friends over the years. It was never a romantic thing, I would just go to his parents’ house, sometimes for Sunday dinner, more often than not to play “cut throat Monopoly”. In fact, we saw the very first episode of _Saturday Night Live_ at his place.

Anyway, I know you’re hurting about “her” but you have to accept the fact that she’s moved on. Not that you have to *like* it; acceptance has nothing to do with liking or hating a situation.

You do sound like a very nice guy, but I think it’s time you move on. Love can be an illness, but it can also be very nice. To sound cold and analytical, friends are like habits—you pick them up (the habit/the friendship) and it’s hard to break (when the relationship ends and you beat yourself up and are miserable). Break the habit of thinking about what happened (easier said than done). Find something new that interests you—I would think that there are plenty of things at university that you can get involved in. OK, you may have to be dragged to a couple of meetings but you may find that you end up enjoying them and in the process meet a group of people who share your interests.

Maybe “she’ll” come back to you as a friend. You know at least one of her major faults so you can decide how much of a friendship you want. If she does, take it very slowly because there’s always a chance that she’ll play you for a yo-yo (because you’re pining for her she knows that you’ll always be available until the next guy comes along). I’m not saying that the next “Significant Other” will worship you, she may treat you like the first one, but that’s the chance you have to take. After all, the chances of a relationship lasting are 50-50.

You’re going to have your heart broken a few more times and each time it will really hurt (even if you get married you’ll have your heart broken, trust me), but each time you’ll learn lessons. Get your life together, buy that car and take care of the things that you need. Define yourself in terms of “you” and not in terms of anyone else because when you get down to it, when you feel everyone else has abandoned you you’ll have to rely on yourself.

Also, my dear, *you* didn’t lose a friend, *she* lost a friend. You may have been the best thing in her life and she was too stupid to realize it. Unless you’re not being entirely honest, I can’t see what you did to push her towards someone else. She consciously made the choice to find someone else; you didn’t make the choice for her.

I hope this helps a little. Please keep posting, and remember, it’s OK to cry. It’s quite normal to mourn the loss of something or someone. Time heals all wounds (and time wounds all heels).

Good luck.

P.S. I got married for my first time when I was 38 (I know, I was a fossil!) but that's because I did things I wanted to do for myself and figured I'd never got the chance once I got married, and I wanted to get myself as independent as possible so I could rely on myself when times get bad (and not that I'm strong when my heart is broken--I fall apart also).

Is this making any sense? I tend to ramble.

hey, i love your "rambles" it really did help me and lifted my spirits a little. well forgive me if i didn't make some senses either. like the pop question, i was referring to like a question to "would you be my girlfriend?". I feel like I'm still too young to get married, I'd prefer the age of 27 .

if you're wondering, yeah i'm doing much better actually. I'm hanging out with my friends - (guys and girls) doing some activities and you know the sorts.

But I really appreciate everything you said. Thanks you've been a great help and motivater

I'm so glad I was able to help, if only a little.

Congratulations to you for getting back with your friends. It's always nice to have a support network. When I had my first "true love" (before you were born) and we broke up I was very fortunate to have a network of friends, both male and female. Of course I cried quite a bit when I was alone but at least I wasn't alone all the time. I also used to have dreams about him (I think that lasted about six months), but as time passed and I had the dreams it was he who wanted to get back together and my saying "no".

The real test will be the next time you encounter her. Here's a funny-ish story (and I've posted this on this forum before to other people). Some months after "we" broke up (and we were planning on marrying), I was at work and got a telephone call. The phone was on our secretary's desk so she called me over and I took the call. Well, it was "him" and I heard his voice (I could still recognize it over the phone) my knees buckled. Fortunately there was a chair behind me that I "gracefully" fell into.

He called to ask me how we should handle things if ever we saw each other on the street. Can you imagine?! I was so astonished that he was calling with something so trivial I first answered him with an astonished voice and then quickly got annoyed I asked him why he was bothering to ask that question and that we would have to handle it when the time came. I think I said good-bye and hung up. I just couldn't believe he called after however many months.

I had started this job as the relationship was ending so that the secretary could see the initial suffering and eventual recovery. She said he was trying to feel me out about getting back together. I told her there was NO WAY on God's green earth I would ever consider going back to him.

I've moved about 1,000 miles away but in the time between our breaking up and the time I moved I never saw him or heard from him. I think part of that was because we had no friends in common. It's harder when you do have friends in common because sometimes one of them, thinking that they're doing you a favor, will pass on some tidbit (I saw "her" out last night with this guy, blah, blah, blah) and that can throw you into a downward spiral. DON'T LET IT! Anytime anyone offers to tell you something about "her", let him/her know you're not interested and if they persist just walk away (easier said than done, I know).

If circs should bring you two together (you run into each other in the hallway or see each other on the street), be distant and polite. Speak only when spoken to. If you can act, act like you're over her and have moved waaay on. You can cry in private but put on a good public face. Again, you need to show her that she lost a good friend, not the other way around.

Good luck and do keep me posted on your progress. You've taken the hardest step (the first step on your journey towards wellness) by distancing yourself from her. You'll have good days and bad ones (sometimes on the same day) but the bad ones will subside. For me the evenings were the hardest because I felt so lonely but the next morning when I woke up everything seemed better (of course for awhile the evenings would still be difficult).

OK, I've repeated myself more than enough. That's what happens in the aging process. The only way I find my way home from work is to follow the trail of body parts.

Hey hey it's ok. It shows u that care and i love that.

Well, I can't say much of the downward spiral. I'm stuck with her in the same class for the next 4 semesters. Really i can't take changing classes to an account since they don't allow it for my course. but i guess i should just take this as a challenge to build up my character right? i mean it could be useful for later ons.

well, just that because i rarely see her i think of her as "just another girl". we talk and tease each other a few times. i have the feeling she broke up witht he guy but really i'm not bothered having a relationship right now. so i guess now i know how most people feel about their Ex's and of course how you feel. it's sad, well actually i had some infatuations with other girls but what i felt with her was different but i guess everyone goes through that phase.

i'm still young, so i have a lot more things to experience. i guess that's what most people would say.

wow,I don't knwo what to say.what she did was wrong and messed up but maybe she kept it from you cause she didn't want you to know she had a boyfriend?maybe she felt bad about it cause she did like you and she knew you liked her?either way,she should have come forward with it and not hid it from you.One day you'll find someone who fits you perfectly and she wil be that one you waited for! you don't need someone like her.If I were you,i'd act like I didn't care and ignore her when she asks you something like why you weren't in class.afterall she will just ignore you again right? so just do it to her first and see how she likes it!

hi melissa. glad you joined.

i did ignored her for like two weeks. then it all ended when she wanted to speak with me. after that we had a chat and eventually had lunch together but there was nothing much about it. it's like a relationship being rebuilt in a way.

it's been a month since i last saw her. she invited me out at one time and clearly giving me some hints to meet at some places. but i decline of course - i didn't want to go out with some other dude's girlfriend or trying to let her have the satisfaction.

So well i ignored and avoided her in another manner

good for you! letting her come and go as she pleases is wrong and you stood up for yourself! awesome!

...
well i guess this still isn't over.
i think more things are coming to get me.

what?

well i doubt i'm over with her. it's not like i'm still infatuated or anything, it's probably we still got some sort of "bond".

she keeps text-ing me everyday and well i can't really ignore someone.

she did mention that she broke up with her boyfriend. But I'm not interested in having a relationship right now, I passed that stage now I'm more focus on achieving my goals.

i can't be mad at her - i haven't really talked to her about it so there's no point for me hating her. my friend did advise me, just stick being friends and be there for her and forgive any mistakes she's done because anyone can make a mistake.

eh,people can make mistakes, but when it's repeated I don't think its classified as a mistake anymore.I think your doing the right thing by keeping your distance and doing what *you* need and want to do.

where's entices been awhile since i've heard from her

And I'm incredibly flattered that you asked about me. Awww, shucks!

I had a lithotripsy a week ago Thursday (use of ultrasound to break up kidney stones) and it took awhile to recover.

I've also been going through some hard times myself lately that I'm trying to deal with on my own. I think I'm finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on at least one of them and am hoping that it's not from an oncoming train!

So you're still being bothered by someone it sounds like you're not ready to give up. Why are you accepting the texting? Can't you block them (drastic measure) or at least ask her to please not text you so often?

IMNSHO I think the texting is a way of manipulating you, of her trying to maintain a hold on you so she can run back to you when her relationship goes south (IOW "breaks up"). This is not healthy for you. Of course you can ignore texts from her (I'm sure glad I haven't gotten involved in texting, otherwise my hands would be in awful shape and my brain wouldn't be able to remember all the abbreviations ) or answer only the ones you feel important enough to reply to. The "how are you" or "whacha doin'" texts are not important enough to reply to. Even the "let's get together and study tonight" may be dangerous because you're still fairly early on your journey to wellness.

As far as the "bond" goes, you will always have some kind of "tie" with people from the past. Not that the tie won't be broken because it will. I had "ties" with people who broke my heart (friendships as well as more serious things) but those ties only exist tangentially. For example, there are songs I hear on the radio or on CDs I've made that bring me back to a particular point in time when I may have been involved with someone and that comes to mind when I hear the song, but my reaction is "oh, yeah" and think about how much I've moved on and all that I've accomplished (sorry about the run-on sentence, I'm writing as I'm thinking).

Keeping distance between the two of you is the best thing. Be involved with your circle of friends, find something new to do so you meet other people and keep your mind occupied with something else other than her. Organize your own study group (if you do things like that) that don't include her.

Of course people make mistakes and you can forgive them but it doesn't necessarily mean that the slate is wiped clean. I don't know if that can ever happen with people, otherwise how would anyone learn from them?

If it's meant to be that some kind of stable relationship between the two of you is meant to happen that will come in time. I mean a friendship between two equals, like two equal-sized circles that have some kind of common area, and I don't mean two equal-sized circles that almost completely swallow each other. Like a Venn Diagram (if you know what that is). It doesn't sound like you two are equals right now--your circle appears to be smaller than hers but yours is getting a little larger.

More ramblings, but I'll try and check back more often.

Melissa knows from where she speaks, as do I. If two women agree on the same thing (particularly where the matters of the heart are concerned) you can kind of take it as fact that what we're suggesting you do is worth considering. I'm not saying you're not, don't get me wrong.

I've taken up bike riding (there's a point to this). Where I live there's some topography (bumps, really) but when I first started I could barely get up the first tiny rise without stopping a couple of times to catch my breath. It was probably more of a half-hearted try, but at least I made the decision to do it. The next time it got easier because I was determined I was going to do it and I meant it. I'm getting better on hills with some degree of rise to them and my range is getting larger (I ride for an hour five days/week and there are times I make myself do it).

So, the point is, NO HALF-HEARTEDNESS! Make those steps mean something!

With virtual hugs,

Camille

well you and melissa had been great these past few weeks for giving me advice.

mmm let see.

just about yesterday i went to see her (after 3 - 4 weeks since our holidays started). i know this was wrong but i was thinking oh why not the hell. so i went out with her the whole day, to be honest it was fun. after that we talk but i never brought the conversation about relationship. she did ask if i was with someone right now and i just simply lied i broke up with someone and now i'm not interested.

Kaworu, my personal opinion is that at first, when you paid so much attention to her, she didn't appreciate it and, due to her conduct, immature and irresponsible( and snobbish too) lost it.
Realizing he wasn't top priority in your life, must've hurt her ego.
And now she tries to win back that position.
Be careful dear friend...if she did that one that- messed around with your mind and soul, she can easily do it once more.
Don't let your guard down!

OK, so you spent some time with her after being on your own for awhile. Did some superficial talking, didn't talk about the relationship. Actually, what relationship? Thought you were through, although you're still in the "pining away" stage.

The "what the hell" mindset can get you into trouble if you're not careful. Take it from John (hi, John, thanks for getting involved int this!), he's been through this and is giving you good advice. Sometimes it's easier to listen to one of your own sex than to the other (the advice just sticks better).

I would still stay away from her for a much longer period of time. Sounds like you still have some feelings for her. I'm not much for lying but I guess I'm glad that you came across as having moved on. Wonder if she believed you.

The fact that it's been about a month and you seem to have gotten through the initial wave of grief. Good for you! (Wish there was an emoticon for a pat on the back.) Don't waste all the progress you've made on possibly falling back into wanting to spend more time with her.

Carefully consider your next step, please. You need to find out who you are and what you want out of life. Right now if I was you I would consider placing her on "hold" (and I don't mean holding her ) and moving along the path you're charting for yourself. If you're meant to be friends then time will bear this out.

Keep writing--I really do care about your healing. BTW, where are you from? Some of your words are more along the lines of British English. You don't have to say, I was just wondering.

Good luck and keep in touch.

Camille

hey nice to know someone cares and hi john

i'm from malaysia.

well, i went out with her once. and then after that i just did my own thing and she did hers. actually too think about it we're very opposite so i don't think there's much compatibility. so there's nothing much.

Hello to Malaysia!

Does it sound like you're moving on faster than you think? Seems like it to me. Looks like the scales have fallen from your eyes and you're able to analyze your feelings towards her in a more rational way. Good for you!!!!

Even so, keep on *your* path. Find *your* happiness. Discover who you are and define yourself in terms of yourself.

I'm so proud of your progress--when you started you really sounded as if you were in a very bad way. You still sound a little doubtful but that's the way things go. Try to focus on the positive things that happen in your life, no matter how small.

Keep on posting, my friend.

Camille

hehe. fast? well not really. it took me a few months to get it over with. maybe because i needed to let it out a bit. it's true i guess that you shouldn't bottle up your feelings inside. It only gets worse.

i'm doing fine if you're wondering.