I agree with meblonde. Doint whatever you want is not always the right choice.

Whether or not it's the right choice is not for you to decide nightangel.

Personally, I am content with people doing whatever they want to do as long as it doesn't infringe upon my rights.

Why do we refrain from dangerous activities? Because we don't want to die. Because these activities are not good for the species. That's why there are rules about behavior these days... but there never used to be. It used to be "do something stupid, well, you're gonna die". I personally have no problem with that. Parents should educate their children.

Doing whatever others want is never the right choice.

well said meblonde noone can argue that the theory is the same your body so why follow any laws?your body your choice right?...........oh don,t tell me it,s only your choice if you wish to kill your unborn i get it now..........freaking hypocrits

Cool Birch, thanks for brining my post on over in here. I'm glad you felt the need to post it. And yes I know it is legal! And I said, I felt there where some slight cases that a abortion should be performed, so your statement about me not caring it totally wrong!! If you are going to quote me don't leave parts out. Because you see, I do care about the children. They should not be killed!

1. Helmet: M'kay.. have you written your state legislator about this? You do realize not all states have mandatory helmet laws right? You can garuntee when you have a fabulous crash that sheers the skin off your body my taxes will not go towards your medical bills and recovery or your funeral? Your rash actions will affect others.

2. YOu have every right to kill yourself speeding.. you have no right to endanger me or any other person because you think you are above the law.

3. Swim as you please but when a child sees you swimming in a no swim area and does the same, since you are an adult, and is harmed or dies then again your disregard for law causes harm to another.

4. When you lust for and with your father produces a child with lethal chromosonal abnormalities I'm sure you'll be very proud of yourself.

5. No, In fact I do not see your point since your 'choices' directly impact the lives of other people and can cause serious harm and death to post birth already living persons.

6. Again.. abortion harms no one. Legalizing cocaine promotes violence, gang style behaviors, increases crime and causes serious physical harm to people other then the drug addict.
Abortion does not, unless you count the nutcases who kill physicians and blow up buildings or use other forms of terrorism to promote their 'prolife' stance.

7. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. Try to understand that.

8. Women list reasons but the ultimate reason, which I fully support, is that she doesn't want to be pregnant.
No other reason matters.
Look at you. Talk about arrogance on a stick.

- If the rubber broke.. guess what? They were practicing safe sex. You use gestation as a way to punish the woman for something beyond her control. When did gestation become a punishment?

- If she doesn't want a child right now nothing you can do, your banal rhetoric aside, will prevent it. Outlawing abortion will not prevent it. It will not stop it. Your will does not matter in her life and her body. Just deal.

- See above for your ridiculous stance on your so called 'point' about the fourth gestation.

- Doing something permanent.. ok .. so you assert that steriliazation should be mandatory for women and men? Or just women? Have you done the least bit of research on the failure rate of sterilization surgery?
Again, you Choose to attempt to dictate a womans contraceptive choices to her. When will you realize that you simply don't have that authority.

I live my life by my choices I feel absolutely no need to consult you in the doing.
As Eiri so aptly pointed out.. you realize abortion is legal right?

Once again I Already said I knew it was Legal..(and it was not Erir it was Birch that wrote that!) Would you people read what is wrote and try not to make statements NOT SAID to "try" and prove a point?
you write:
(Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy)
Yes it is.. You know what happens when you have sex?? RIGHT?

Are you trying to tell me you have a right to have sex and abort the pregnancy, because you think consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. You really don't believe that do you? And you called me ridiculous??

And I never said I had any authority. But I do feel women should take responsibility for their actions. If you are going to have sex be smart enough to know what might happen. It's really pretty simple.
Sex 101.. Sex= possible Child.

Another thing.. Why do you have to resort to name calling? Such as "arrogance on a stick". Seems to me a lot of you pro-choice people get really upset and say nasty things when someone goes against your ideas. Try and be intelligent when you debate. Name calling is not needed.

I reposted your post in it's entirety. I didn't leave anything out. It's even in your post: "I feel only in very slight cases should an abortions be granted."
http://ehealthforum.com/health/topic92012. html
Is it from that statement that I'm supposed to gather that you "care"?

Your language of "grow up" "live with it" and "oops darn" shows your lack of empathy,and ultimately your lack of concern for women and their children.

Your comments on helmet laws, speed limits, and every other thing on there are poor comparisions. If you used what is commonly referred to as "logic" then you would be able to see this. Besides, you can choose to obey these laws, eh?

I'll never understand why prolife people are so concerned about what happens in my uterus. I heard someone once argue that the baby boomer generation is going to retire soon, and the reason we'll run out of social security is because abortion was legalized, and there aren't enough little worker bees to support them. I dont' know about the truth in that comment, but to insinuate that my womb is a production factory so they can retired in comfort is revolting.

Consent to sex does not mean consent to pregnancy. There is no such thing as secondary consent. If I consent to go on a date, do I consent to date rape? Have I then consented to pregnancy? Then, have I consented to death if it kills me? It could go on and on.

Taking responsibility doesn't exclusively mean having a baby. It means doing soemthing. A lack of responsibility would be the absense of caring that you're pregnant. Abortion is taking responsibility, you just don't like it, so you consider it void of responsibility.

I know you posted my whole post. I think you know what I meant!
You are mistaken! I could care less about what goes on in your uterus, I care about the baby being killed. You have a choice.. it doesn't. See, it is called pro-choice but really it is pro-choice for the women, the baby has no say! I don't think the a baby (if it had a choice) would choose death. I'm glad my mother did not abort me, how about you?

"Are you trying to tell me you have a right to have sex and abort the pregnancy, because you think consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy."

Give the girl a quarter!!
Yes. That is exactly what I said. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. How does this confuse you?

As to 'Arrogance on a Stick" it is the epitome of arrogance to shove your personal views on anyone else. That is arrogance on a stick. You would prefer no one ever aborted, period.
That is your belief and you are certainly welcome to it.
You may not make that choice for someone else though. To presume to define choice for others is simply arrogance, especially as the law itsself does not support your preference.

Are you understanding me?

I ask this question again if you got your wish and only "certain" woman were granted abortion, how, exactly would that be determined? Would it be a panel of experts? If a woman were raped and then wanted an abortion, would she have to go and parade around stating she was raped, only to further exppose her to humiliation? Where does the burden of proof lie? Would she have to expose the person who raped her? What if he killed her for exposing him? What about incest. Even though it is wrong, what if someone prefers not to tell the whole world that her father has been having sex with her? Why is it anyones freaking business??? I don't think people should have to display their dirty laundry in front of a court room just to have their health needs met. So what if a woman needs one and she says "i was raped" just to get one. Would she have to undergo a medical exam? Cause that's just more violation.

Nobody really .W.A.N.T.S. to have an abortion. Just like nobody .W.A.N.T.S. to have their appendix out. It is sometimes necessary. I have twwo wonderful girls. i love babies. But I would never force someone to have a baby who didn't want to do it. It is hard. Carrying a baby is hard. Birthing a baby is hard. Hormones suck. I am not saying aborting is easy. It is all hard. It is s sh#tty situation to be in in the first place. Anyone who has not been there has no right shoving their morals in front of others.

sure I'm understanding you, because you are doing the same thing! shoving your personal views too. are you not?

If you don't care what happens in my uterus then abortion isn't your concern. The "baby" is what's happening in my uterus so if I choose not to play host to the z/e/f then I'm perfectly entitled to do so. It doesn't effect you whatsoever.

As for the z/e/f not choosing to be aborted the fact it isn't capapble of even exisiting without my body makes this a completely pointless hypothetical question.

Having sex doesn't mean that you're ok to be pregnant, birth control shows a direct involvement that you're deliberately trying not to get pregnant. If that fails I don't see why I should be forced to have a child because they can't make 100% effective contraception.

The difference is, nobody is forcing you to have an abortion if you don't want to.

I am sorry, but children do not get to make choices when they are born, nor should they get to prior to that day. They are small entities who are depended upon larger people to make decisions for them based on their best interests. Parents make these decisions for them afterward, and if you cannot trust a parent to make the decision to become a parent, how can you trust them to make decisions for a living child?

The unborn do not have rights that supercede their host.

Should we start calculating age from the point of conception? Should we calculate age from the point of being able to live outside the womb? No. This gestational period does not count because the z/e/f is not and should not be considered an entity in and of itself until it is born. Our first birthday is the event which initiates us into the world and guarantees for us certain rights and responsibilities.

I am glad your mother did not abort you. I am glad my mother did not abort me. However, there are women who choose to abort because they know they are not able to parent a child. Should this mean that they be denied the joy of sexual relations?

sex=baby is a ludicrus argument. It reeks of old catholocism. It is the reason we have ridiculous "abstinence only" policies which have been proven ineffective. I agree with Moo in that blaming someone who uses contraception for its failure, and then condemning them to an unwanted pregnancy and its associated repurcussions is denying that person to one of the freedoms guaranteed every citizen of the US. I suppose those who do not wish to have children should become eunuchs?

meblonde01, I'm sure you can understand where these women are coming from, having aborted a pregnancy yourself. I think that you have issues surrounding your termination that you are yet to resolve. Sorry.

Kypros.