This is a very important time in your relationship with your wife. You need to view all of this as standing at a crossroads with the very real possibility that things could go either way. The first and most important thing you can do is to stop spying on your wife. It satisfies your curiosity but it tells your wife you are intrusive and distrusting. You may feel you are justified because she is hiding things from you, but if you want to be able to fix the problems you are having in your relationship you need to make a foundation of trust and honesty. The last thing you want to do is to alienate your wife by making her paranoid.

The next important thing for you to do is to create a time that you and your wife can be sit and talk alone without distractions from the outside world and without your children around. Arrange for the kids to spend the night with friends or at grandmom's or something like that. If that is not possible, arrange for them to spend the day away from home even if it means hiring a babysitter to take them to the zoo or the movies or something like that. Take your wife out somewhere quiet without a lot of people around - a place where you can sit and talk freely without worrying about interruptions or people overhearing.

You might want to start the conversation reminiscing. Do the remember when thing - remember when we first met or remember that time we took off for the weekend before the kids were born - anything that was special to just you and her. Things that will make her smile and make her feel warm and happy. Carefully mention that lately it seems like life has been so crazy and hectic that you haven't be able to spend as much time together as you would like. Tell her you have been wanting to do something special with her or take her somewhere special but life has just been too busy. Avoid putting blame on either of you. Simply say that you've noticed things aren't how they used to be and you want to try to fix that.

You can bring up the spying and the conversations you've seen her have but be prepared for her to get defensive and possibly angry. To understand her and her actions lately you must understand what life is like for her. You said she is a stay at home mom. She watches you go off to work each day and she stays home, alone, with the kids and the housework. She doesn't get the stimulation you get when you go off to work - your interaction with grownups, the satisfaction of doing a good job and the validation of your peers and coworkers. It is possible she is even a little jealous you get to go off to work and she is stuck at home with the kids all the time. Regardless though, she has turned to the internet for attention and stimulation. Whatever her reasons (whether she really realizes them or not) she is looking for stimulation, attention, and a break from the everyday mundane. This is the key to making changes in your relationship. She is looking for all this because she isn't getting it from you. If you recognize that and make an effort to change it she might not need to look elsewhere.

Keep in mind that talking to her and admitting there is a problem is not saying that you don't love her and you want things to end. And the same is true of the things she says to you. Sitting down and having an honest open conversation is saying I love you and I recognize a problem and I want to fix it - not saying that you don't want to be together. Honesty and trust are the foundation of a good relationship. You must be honest with each other and you must be able to trust each other. If you are unable to make headway on your own, consider a marriage counselor. You love your wife, you have four children and have sworn a life together - don't give up on it too easily.

The above advice was very well written and wonderful advice. There is only one thing I did not agree with, and I am not saying that either is right or wrong, just an opinion. Because people are different and feel differently, I am going to say this as my opinion and that is all.
No, you should not spy on your wife, but she should not give you a reason to. Yes, you do need to develop trust, but you cannot do that when she is cheating on you online. And yes, I consider this cheating, but I am very very picky with the honesty and loyalty thing. Anyway, the way that I see it is, if she wasn't doing anything wrong then it would not bother her at all that you spyed. If anything, it would be flattering that you cared! Now, if you were overly obsessive and accusing for no reason whatsoever then that is just annoying, but she gave you reason to be curious which is why you bought the spyware in the first place.
I really cannot say much more though, the above post really said it all. You just have to communicate with your wife. She, being a stay at home mom, probably has cabin fever. Just put yourself in her shoes. Good luck.
And once again, I do not want to offend anyone, I was just giving my opinion on the above. Thanks!

Thank you both for the advice. You're both right on cause she said the same things.

I guess the thing that really bothered me is that she lied about what she did. She still adamantly refuses to admit what she did. I really don't know what is worse. The fact that she said those things to another man (she never said them to me), or the fact that she lies about it.

I'm no longer spying on her, and let me tell you, that is one of the hardest things to do because I know she still chats with this guy. All kinds of thoughts running through my head. She says that it's all done in fun and that it's not "face to face", but to me, it may as well be. I mean if she got so much of a kick out of it online, who's to say it won't go further.

Time is making it a little easier to deal with this, but my mind ocassionally reverts back to the graphic descriptions she explained to him. I'm just trying to give her her space and own time and am praying to god that this will pass, becuase the pain will probably always be there.

Thanks again.

Do you know if this guy lives in your area or if there is a potential of them meeting? I ask because if it is just a computer thing, it could just be a form of arousal/masterbation for her.. Sort of like looking at pornography? Just another angle for you to look at it. I'm not saying that it is right, but if she has no intentions of ever meeting this man and is only doing it for arousal I feel that it could be one in the same as what men do with magazines or porn sites or 900# phone sex. Maybe you and your wife could get two computers and you could be the guy on the other end of the conversation. I think that if you talk about it openly this could actually make you relationship better than it was before. She might be board with the "same'o'same" so to speak. Please dont take that as saying you are boring, but sometimes adding little fantasy scenarios to your relationship can spice things up. Talk to her about things that she might like to try. I bought a book titled "101 nights of great sex" it has tons of great suggestions that might help. All of the above advise is excellent!!! I just thought i'd give you another possible spin as to what she might be feeling that you might not have thought of. Keeping all lines of communication open is the most important thing!!!!

The guy lives in new jersey and we live in wisconsin. So I doubt that she will try to meet with him. I'm totally against specifics when on the internet, but she did tell him what city and in what part of the city we (she) lives in.

I'm sure it was an arousal thing because she made the explicit remarks the same day we had our two encounters (see above). As far as masturbation goes, that's a no.

She has this completely different life in the chat room. She does bring elements of our personal life (kids, me her pt job) but she always seemed to make it look as if I was being some a-hole of a husband and that she really didn't want me around.

She says she can see no problem with what she did ("relaying a chat message"). I still believe that she made those comments of her own free will and she has offered no proof to back up her story. She just gets huffy and changes the subject. When I ask her about it. She says that it is all done in "fun".

She has given me the opportunity to join the same site/chat room under an assumed identity (not as her hubby). And we both do chat with each other in the "room". I get aroused when we do this. But the thing is she knows that it's me and I know it is her. And i'm also under the presumption that this guy (who also frequents the room) is in on the whole thing and I am just making an ass of myself.

All I can say is thank you all for your kind attention and explanations. I just hope that she will tire of this guy and we can begin to become whole again. I just wish that I would have listened to her before she went out and did this.... Perhaps I am somewhat to blame...

Absolutely not!!! Don't even blame yourself you are not to blame!! I personally go into chat rooms and yes it is a release from reality... I have never done the cyber thing nor do I ever intend to, but I do have male friends as well as female friends. It is nice to get things off your chest to people who don't have a clue as to who you are or what is going on. Funny thing is they are always on your side for some reason.

About the chatroom thing, yeah you are probably right about that unfortunately. I didn't know they were doing that in a chatroom, I assumed it was an instant messenger like yahoo or msn or something like that where you are completely alone.

Gosh, I really hope you guys can work things out... I'm really sorry for what you are going through. It would just be a shame to see 13 yrs of marriage thrown away for an internet fling. Another thought.. You could try a little jealousy??? Pretend you have something going on in the chatroom and see if it doesn't make her jealous enough to quit?? That's being a little childish, but if it works.... Then again it just might be bad advice on my part. I'm leaving that up to you to decide. Lol

again hope you can work things out!!!!!!! Wish I knew what more to tell you

I know you love her and don't want to be lonely but I think she knows this and is using it to her advantage.She has turned you into a spy,ruined all trust and disrespected you.You need to put your foot down and tell her the computer is going and you are both going to try and work on getting back what you had before.If she is at home all day she should keep the house in a reasonable state.You could not of been that bad a husband to deserve this treatment.I think there are too many divorces but do you really want to live like this?I hope everything works out the way you want it to.

Well if things do not improve or worsen, then maybe get rid of the computer, but I would not jump the gun like mentioned above. And call me crazy, but I don't remember hearing anything about his wife not keeping the house clean. It doesn't take 24 hours in a day to keep up with housework.
Anyway, I really hope that she stops this. I cannot believe that she honestly doesn't think she has done anything wrong. Maybe calling this guy honey or baby would be "fun" but what you said she did was in my book cheating. And, if your marriage meant everything to her that it should, then she should be more than willing to stop getting on these chatrooms. It isn't like you are asking her to give up anything important, like a "real" friend or family member. If it was all just in fun then it should not mean anything to her and she should quit for you.
I am not trying to sound harsh, but come on. I would be upset if someone did that to me, and I would not accept it. Because to me it is cheating.
God bless.

I believe you are crazy.He has said the responsibilities had fallen back so she can't be doing them.Anyway that is not the point of my response what is though is the fact that you are telling him to wait and see if it improves when it should stop now.She has badly treated her husband who is trying to make things better but all she is interested in is chatting suggestivly on the net.I hope they do sort it out I just think that the loving hubby has suffered enough stress.Did you know stress was the biggest killer?

O.K, just because our opinions differ does not mean that I am crazy. If every relationship ended because someone was "chatting" or looking at porn (which in this case would be the same thing. Because she is doing this for fun, so what is the difference between her talking to someone she does not even know, and watching porn and masturbating?) I personally do not approve of either one, but a lot of people do for some reason. Yes, you are right it should end now. But he should not just up and end their marriage because of this one thing.
And I said to wait and see if things improved because he said that she is not including him in the conversations and what not. And yes, housework is "falling behind" but that does not mean she isn't doing anything. They do have children you know which is a full time job in itself. Have you ever been a stay at home mom? She probably is seeking attention that she feels she is not getting. She stays in the house all day, aside from errands. I would start looking for things to occupy my time too.
You can give him whatever advice you want and so can i. Sorry if they do not agree, but I am just telling him my point of view.

I'm sorry I just don't want the gentleman to be made a mug of he sounds like a decent husband.No I don't have kids because my ex cheated and gave me chlamydia and it led to my infertility.My mum had 5 kids and she managed ok then again there was no computer and she loved my father very much,for nearly 40 years actually so I know how you should treat a husband/wife and this is not the way.Anyway we both agree it's not fair on him so I am sorry for my comments about you.

To loving hubby,i really do hope you work it out with your wife and find peace of mind.Best wishes.

That is quite alright, we all have our moments. And sometimes what I am trying to say does not come out right at all. You are right, he should not have to put up with this at all, and I personally would not. I would say, "hey, computer or me" but I have found that a lot of people aren't as stubborn as me in the whole "cheating" aspect, so I try to be lenient when giving advice, although I really should not be, I guess.
But anyway, to me, the whole computer thing is cheating, porn is cheating, wanting to cheat is cheating. That is just me, whether anyone agrees or not. Looking, hey o.K, we are only human. But, I feel that if I was married and needed to "chat" with another man that would be cheating. She should talk to her husband who she knows and loves about whatever is going on inside of her head, not this other guy.
Anyway, no hard feelings, and I am so sorry to hear what happened to you. Did you not catch the chlamydia in time? That is so very sad.

I was given the all clear 3 weeks after ex cheated with a girl who had chlamydia but they were wrong and I kept going to doctors for painful sex and was told it was because I was not relaxed enough and muscles inside can go tense on their own.I even went to a infertility clinic due to problems conceiving and they didn't notice anything wrong.By the time they noticed anything which was 6 years later I had pelvic inflammatory disease and it had damaged my tube so 3 months after that I fell pregnant for the first time and it got stuck in my tube so my tube was removed and my other is damaged.Recently a journalist said she was doing an article on chlamydia so I have given her my story but it has made me feel angry and upset again.Now I am dependant on cannabis to take the pain away as other bad stuff has happened and some days I just want to go to sleep forever.I will get there just very slowly.I'm not going for ivf as I have too many problems and don't want to mess my childs life up.Thats why I get angry at people not treating their decent partners right.Glad we sorted it though its nice to meet someone with principles.Best wishes to you & sorry it's a long one maybe others will learn from reading this.

I am so very sorry that happened to you. And I know what you mean. There are still good people out there and it is awful to hear them getting treated badly and letting it happen. I get frustrated because I have given advice my whole life and my friends have never listened. They all stay with guys who lie, cheat and sometimes even beat them. I just don't understand how someone could honestly think that is what they deserve. But, people are different.
You seem like a very wonderful person who should not have to go through what you are. I am so sorry. If you ever need to talk, let me know!

Thank you.The reason women stay so long with abusive partners is because they are so loving when they are not in a mood and the good times cover the bad times until it gets to a point when there are no more good times.It is stupid really but we just can't help it.I am now with a good man but am ruining it so must pull myself together.Take care of yourself and never change who you are because people are grateful for people like you,especially friends.

Thank you so very much! Take care of yourself, I am sure we will be talking again soon!

Loving hubby:
how are things going! Fill us in!

Just a quick update....

Well, she is still talking to the guy. Although it's not the sex talk like before. Now it's sexual innuendos (i think). At least that's what it "died down to" after I found out what was going on. I haven't had the spyware on and it's killing me.

She finally admitted to saying the sexual things I began this thread with. She wasn't relaying any messages. I wanted her to tell me the truth but yet I didn't want to hear the answer. When she said she did it, my heart fell to my feet and I felt like I just wanted to die. But now I don't have that eating away in my head anymore. You know the "why the hell doesn't she just admit it." feeling. I mean she said she wanted me to trust her, but she kept lieing about what she said. Ironic huh?

I just wished to god she would have the courage to stand up to him like she did with me. For some reason she has feelings for this guy and says she doesn't. I have paid more attention to her in the last three weeks than the last three years (or more). I began to pick up on little things she says and does. Things I would have never seen before all this. Things that tell me she has feelings for this guy. It's hard to explain, but it's there....

I just love her to death and she is my world. Without her, I know for a fact that I would not survive. I am giving her 100% of myself and feel that she isn't. She says that she is "here" with me, but I get the feeling that while her body may be here, her mind may wander to him.

I also get the feeling that when she feels secure that I am unsuspecting of anything, or that I may let my "guard down", she will go back to him or someone else. Maybe that's just paranoia, but the feeling is there. With all the changes I have made. All the effort I have put forth will be to no avail and I will end up loosing her.

I will continue to check back here and still need advice. As time goes on, it gets a little easier and easier each day. This is something I will never forget, and will take a very long time to forgive.

Thank you all for your kind help and support. This has helped a great deal. Again, keep the tips coming. They are a major help.

Thanks
loving hubby of a beautiful woman.....

I am so sorry to hear that. And I hate to say it but it is really to the point where you have to say, "hey, you married me. I am your husband and this has to stop right now!" even if she is only "talking" to the guy now, it does not matter. It isn't like her and this guy are life long friends. She does not "need" to talk to him. And since their was something sexual there before she should not talk to him at all. You have got to put your foot down. Yes, she will probably get pissed, but she voweled to love you for the rest of her life. Not just love you when she wasn't online with another guy. Especially since you said you have been paying more attention to her. If that was the underlying problem, well it is solved now, so she really needs to quit!

First of all, you love this woman very much, and whenever you talk to her about it, you need to let her know that you are coming to her out of love for her, you're not mad at her. Being a woman, I know that we are very much more sensitive than men. (i'm in a very very serious relationship right now, and we've been together for over 3 years.) just keep that in consideration, that she is very sensitive. Ask her what she is interested in, and see if she would like to get involved in something in the community, to kind of get her out of the house, maybe in the evenings, when you can be home with the kids. This will let her get out of the house, and let her build friendships on her own. She will gain more independence, and if she is doing something productive, she will have a sense of accomplishment, which will really help her as a person.
As for your relationship, you need to let her know that divorce is not an option. (divorce should never be an option.) unless, of course she does commit adultery, and you are unwilling to forgive her. Just let her know that you bring things like this up to help the relationship, not end it.
Another thing, I noticed that you mentioned god a lot. Are you a believer in christ? If you are, do you go to a church? Do your wife and children go with you? If not, then I would strongly encourage you to go, and to take your wife and children with you. Just make sure that it is a good, christian church, and that actually preaches the truth straight from the bible. This will help tremendously. Believe me, no one can change unless god changes them. My fiance was one of the worst drug addicts, and when we met over 3 years ago, he was totally clean, and has been ever since, and the only reason is because of god. God will change people for the better. Just have faith in him.
Hope this helps.