the Ultimate Premature Ejaculation Discussion

ManOnTheMoon, how do I get this out of my head?? It's driving me crazy..

There have been more posts here recently then there have been in a while thats awesome. I just wanted to add something about the physical vs. mental cause of pe. I really don't think that any person has a clear cut either/or cause they can attribute to thier problem. The reason I say this is because i have always came fast under any sort of stimulation and have always finished maturbating quickly. This would leave me to beleive that it is a physical problem for me. However when i started taking srri's, it helped alleviate my p e more than anything else. If it were just physical, it wouln't make sence for srris to help me out so much. The brain is a very powerful thing, just take wet dreams for example, your brain can make you ejaculate with no physical stimulation at all. I do not claim to know anyone's cause of pe or tell anyone that they are wrong, it is just something to think about.

Also blast about about the fleshlight stu, i actully orderd that a couple years ago. Basically the "stamina training unit" is a slightly tighter version that in theory, could help you practice lasting longer. This goes back to the start and stop type of thing where your trying to "retrain" you brain. I am not knocking it, it could be beneficial to practice with because it does feel good but from my experiance it was a little more trouble that it was worth (lube, clean up) and i eventually just went back to old fashioned hand lovin. Also about the ssris, you might have to "shop around" for one that works for you better. Loss of libidio is a very common side effect of ssris.As I have said before, i was on zoloft and i did well on it however i did try prozac and it just wasnt for me, had no appetite and trouble sleeping. So everyone is different. Also I stop taking my srris a few months ago after years of use and it has been a struggle having sex after being used to the crutch that ssris provided. They worked great for me but I dont think i want to take them forever. So now I am back to square one and thining about going back on them just for pe, so it's easy to get caught in this never ending cycle too.... just my two cents.....

Get some delay spray, its fantastic. I used to cum in under 2 minutes, now I can go for hours with the spray.
It just numbs the head of your penis

I took zoloft for 4 months (50mg) and no matter how pill friendly I am, I'll just have to admit that it didn't do much. And it didn't really cure my depression either, it just made me feel a little more in control and less irritable (also killed my libido).

Has anyone else tried SSRIs with no significant results, or am I the only one? It really bothers me, because the decision to take a powerful AD medicine is a big step and the lack of results is frustrating and discouraging

first of all,
intango- I took lexapro for about 2 weeks. It definitely delayed my ejaculation, but it delayed it so much. It also made it take over an hour to even get hard, and it just was not worth it. It basically caused me to have ED. And I was only taking 5 mg.

Something happened today. I was masturbating, and using the start stop method, something I have been doing for the best few days, just a random attempt to try and help something and the wierdest thing happened.

I got myself aroused to about a 9.9 /10 on the ejaculation scale. Any more movement I would have cum. I flexed my PC muscle as hard as i could, held it for a good 30 seconds or more until my erection went down slightly. Then I started going again and immediately I started to cum, but it was different very little cum sort of seeped out, and I did not really feel like I came. I then was able to masturbate as fast as I could for another 20 minutes still stayed hard!!!!! and never came, then I just stopped.

One might say, I had retrograde ejaculation, but if that was the case I would have never stayed hard...

If we could figure out how to do this during sex (too bad I cum before I even penetrate), it would solve alot of issues!

I don't believe in any tricks, I've tried a few myself, but when the moment of truth comes, nothing will help you; for those of you who have any fighting experience or have studied a martial art: it's one thing to do it alone in the dojo and another one to take it in the street against an armed guy who doesn't care about your life or his.

After Zoloft managed to pretty much kill my libido, I tried a powerful as hell anti ED combination; so powerful that, under stress free circumstances (ie. home alone) it would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to lose my erection at will, no matter how bored or tired or unaroused I was. And guess what? I managed to lose it just when I was about to get it in, with the girl on top of me (while being on the same anti ED cocktail, of course).

Bottom line -your brain is way to tricky for you to take control over it.

And what's with this 'dilemma' concerning the nature of PE: physical or psychological...
You have a physical problem if your penis is broken (as in broken blood vessels, damaged nerves and such); sensitivity is not a physical issue, you feel with your brain, for f***'s sake !

And just because something is not physical, it doesn't mean that it's all in your mind and you can fix it if you want that bad enough ! I suffer from depression as well and no, you cannot just pull yourself out of it.

To all the guys out there trying various miracle tricks: it's a thin rope and if you fail a couple of times that will shake your confidence hard enough to send you back to step one.

Life experiences change your brain chemistry, that's a fact; in spite of what ship loads of self-help books will tell you, you can't change your brain chemistry just by thinking positive thoughts -that's another fact; however, the changes that would naturally occur in years can be achieved, with drugs, in a matter of weeks; and that is why I put my trust in SSRIs, zoloft didn't really work for me, but there are still other things to try..

Maddude, what you're saying is just plain wrong, you're just being random and have no point; emotions change your brain chemistry and your brain chemistry dictates your emotional life.

The way you put it everything is physical; and it is to some extent, I mean there is some electricity circulating between neurons and stuff like that but reactions that take place in your brain are studied by psychology and psychiatry.

MandM,

I am sensitive in the same spot. If I make a firm ring with my fingers just under the head of my penis and make rapid movements on the spot squeezing tightly, I'm a goner.

BUT

I have really been experimenting and practicing with this spot. I am training my brain to overpower its need to ejaculate when that spot is getting stimulated. And importantly I have also noticed that when this spot does get stimulated with force what happens is my PC muscle instantly and automatically JOLTS tight. Do you grasp what I'm saying? This is an automatic reaction both physically and mentally. And we can learn to control both! By paying attention to the state of my PC muscle and redirecting my brain from the ejaculation mechanism I have had successes. It is easy to lose control, as this evidently takes practice. I haven't had sex in a longgg time with my girlfriend (man its been over two.. maybe three weeks!).. thats another story but I think when we do if I focus I will have improved.

Rocketman1, first thing is to stop letting it drive you crazy! It sounds trivial so most people ignore it when they hear it - but seriously - letting it bother and worry you will screw you over. I have explained over all my posts lots of what I think can and needs to be done to get this out of our heads. Be confident, and REALIZE you have to shut off the mechanism yourself. Most of the time you'll be focusing ejaculating even in the back of your mind if you don't. Or you'll be like many others where their penises are so trained to shoot off at any stimulation. If SSRI's and sprays can fix this problem, then so can our own mental power. Brad17 is absolutely correct, do not underestimate your brain.

Manonthemoon, did you just read a bunch of self-help: the power of positive thinking books? Cause your discourse sure sounds all canned and, truth be told, both naive and worthless.

"If SSRIs can fix the problem then so can your own mental power".... you are sooooo laughable ! Maybe you should try and tell that to the millions of people suffering from severe depression. You're that clueless guy who'd tell them to pull themselves out of it, in your pretentious guru style.

Be gone.

I was not comparing the issue of PE with severe depression. I related that SSRI's having success in helping with PE suggests that the issue is in our heads to an extent.

Why is it that some of you guys flame anyone who says to try and fix this without PILLS? You are saying that positive thinking is naive and worthless? Oh man, inTango. Maybe you should worry about your attitude before you continue worrying about PE.

I think positive thinking is misunderstood. You can't simply choose to believe in curing your PE and watch it happen. The only place positive thinking comes into MY suggestions is so that you aren't worrying and fretting about ejaculating next time you are having sex. I think we all know that helps none.

inTango, really, think about how you're presenting yourself here. Why do you let yourself become so agitated? I'm not surprised you are unhappy.
Your last two posts have been nothing positive - and you are telling ME to be gone?

Funny, I feel that most of your understanding of WHY we have PE is identical to mine. You can't compare the challenge of pulling out of severe depression with learning to control your orgasm.

Hey, how many people on this board have been wondering whether being tensed and anxious and stressed about the outcome will help you do a better job (no matter what challenge you might face)? Cause there sure are some great, breaking news for you: ManontheMoon, aka El Guru, aka The Prophet, aka The Messiah of the Board has just discovered for us that being calm and composed before sex is a viable alternative to freaking out. Shalom.

ManotM, you really belong in a late night infomercial, where you can cure just about everyone between 3.30am and 4,00 am.

Oh, and ME loves how you always write about yourself in all caps..
God ? Is that YOU ?

In Tango - You know, I was thinking for awhile how I was going to respond to your posts. At first, I was going to try and provoke the discussion, maybe reason some things out. Discussion is always good, especially when you are trying to solve a problem. But seeing how childish you act, on the internet, of all places, I'm not going to address anything else you've said. You definitely have some sort of complex emotional issues that should probably be addressed before you start trying to resolve your PE problems. Please just do us a favor, don't slander everyone who posts in here; there's been plenty of good discussion through 20-something pages. I have nothing to prove to you, so I don't plan on responding to or addressing any other future posts in which you choose to act in such an infantile manner. You will probably post back some nasty comments, but I don't care and won't respond back.

Hey, here are a few excerpts from the Coping with PE book, it goes on to explain the different type of PE. I typed this myself, from the book, so they are not all-inclusive. A great read, and you must understand, that you may have one or many of these, more likely the latter. But I’m sure each of you will see that you may fit into one general category better than others.

Possible Causes of PE
- Neurological system PE is caused by a physiological predisposition in the nervous system to ejaculate quickly. In 1988, psychiatrist Pierre Assalian stated that some men with PE have a constitutionally hypersensitive sympathetic nervous system, in other words, a very quick reflex. This type of PE occurs throughout a man’s life, with every partner, and in all sexual situations, including masturbation…. During a study, it was noted that “alpha” animals ejaculate quickly; it which it was found that most primates ejaculate after 3 – 10 seconds of intercourse. In 1999, it was found during a study, that there were differences between PE and non-PE males. For example, PE males have a faster bulbocavernosus reflex, that is, a faster neurological response in the pelvic muscles.

- Physical Illness PE – Physical illness may cause PE, here PE is acquired, not life-long, and occurs in all sexual situations. A number of acute diseases are known to affect ejaculation speed. For example illnesses such as urinary tract infections, while the most frequent is prostatitis, although virtually any urologic disease may have this effect.

- Physical Injury PE – Some cases of PE are caused by temporary or permanent physical damage to the body that directly or indirectly affects ejaculatory mechanisms. Because of the injury, the neurological connection with the genital area is compromised so that at least some sensation and control of ejaculation is impaired or lost.

- Drug Side-Effect PE – PE may occur as the result of use of or withdrawal from certain chemical agents. This type of PE is acquired and occurs in all sexual situations. IE, withdrawal from certain tranquilizers or opiates, or even use of OTC cold medicines like Sudafed.

- Psychological System PE – Psychological system PE is caused by chronic psychological disorders such as bi-polar mood disorder, OCD, chronic depression, generalized anxiety disorder, schizophrenia, personality disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder or developmental disorders such as ADD/hyperactivity. It may also be caused by the ongoing psychological effects of alcoholism or drug abuse, or by chronic, unresolved personal issues.
While significant psychological problems may cause PE, the vast majority of men with PE do not have major psychological problems. There is no common personality profile for me with this type of PE. This type of PE typically occurs throughout a man’s life and in all sexual situations.

- Psychological Distress PE – Is caused by temporary psychological difficulties such and an adjustment disorder (temp depression, anxiety), serious unusual stress, or acute depression. Psychological distress may also result from PE. While this is no typical profile, the scientific literature reports that PE is more likely when the man has situational anxiety, reactive depression, loss of confidence, mistrust, frustration, anger, restrictive religious beliefs, negative feelings about his body and sexuality, or unrealistic expectations of sexual performance. Sometimes it is difficult to determine which is the chicken and which is the egg; it may be unclear whether the anxiety is the cause or the result. Psychological distress PE is acquired.
- Relationship Distress PE – This one’s a long one, but you could probably guess that if you are in abnormal relationship, it may cause PE.


- Psychosexual Skills Deficit PE – This typically occurs from the man not having accurate and sufficient knowledge of his body, his partner’s body, and sexual physiology (how sexual response works, holding unreasonable expectations about sexual performance, and lacking essential sensual skills to manage his body during sexual arousal. Some men also lack dating or interpersonal skills. This type of PE is lifelong, but may not occur with masturbation. Most men with psychologically caused PE usually have some limitations in psychosexual skills, if only to compensate for individual stresses or relationship tenses that rob sexuality of its natural bonding and emotional-healing capacity. In such cases, the man has difficulty focusing on his own sensations; becomes preoccupied with anticipating failure; has difficulty relaxing his body while seriously aroused; lacks awareness of techniques for managing PE or uses ineffective techniques like distraction; focuses excessively on his partner’s body and reactions; experiences restricted, uneasy, or anxious sexuality; or entertains distorted thoughts (“sex must be spontaneous or emotions are not involved in sex”)


- PE with Another Sexual Dysfunction (Mixed PE) – In addition to understanding the multiple causes of PE; it is valuable to appreciate that PE is also multidimensional. One can affect another, which makes PE even more complex.

Which type of PE do you have?

Diagnosing Your PE – Follows these 9 steps, note your answers, continue through all steps until the end:
Step 1 – Do you have neurological PE?
Has PE occurred all your life? Y, N?
Has PE occurred in all sexual situations (all partners, masturbation?) Y, N?
Do you think your penis has a physiological hypersensitivity; that is does your penis feel supersensitive? Y, N?
Does you ejaculation seem to be an unconscious reflex, an automatic reaction like an eye blink? Y, N?
Are you confident that you do not have a serious, chronic psychological problem? Y, N?
- If you answered yes to most of these; then you may have neurological PE. There are several simple neurological examinations your physician or a nuerologist may use, as vale as some more involved tests like bulbocavernosus reflex testing. Until you see a doctor, you will have to make an educated guess about your likelihood of having this type of PE.

Step 2 – Do you have psychological system PE?
Has PE occurred all your life? Y, N?
Has PE occurred in all sexual situations? Y, N?
Have you been diagnosed with-or do you think you have a chronic disorder? (As mentioned previously? Y, N?
Have you taken a formal psychological test that suggests you have a chronic psychological problem? Y, N?
-If you answered yes to the first 2 questions and at least one other, you may have this type of PE. While this type of PE is rate, it is important to consider the underlying because if you do not address the underlying cause, you efforts to remedy PE will be frustratingly unsuccessful.

Step 3 - Do you have psychosexual skill deficit PE?
Has PE occurred all your life? Y, N?
Has PE occurred in almost all situations, especially with a partner? Y, N?
Do you focus your sexual attention almost exclusively on your parter, her action, body, response? Y, N?
Are you so mentally distracted that you are unable to physically relax during sex or unable to focus on the pleasure of your own bodily sensations of arousal? If you have learned arousal pacing strategies such as stop-start pacing, do you find them difficult to use? Y, N?
Are you unaware of your body’s pelvic muscles and how to use them for ejaculatory control? Y, N?
Do you feel confused about your sexual response and perplexed about how to regulate your sexual arousal? Y, N?
Do you feel shy about asking your partner for what you want during sex? Y, N?
Do you initiate and anxiously pursue sex with highly arousing activities such as oral sex or immediate intercourse rather than beginning slowly kissing and light massaging? Y, N?
- If you answered yes to most of these; you may have this type of PE; and our program will be especially useful for you.

Step 4 – Do you have physical illness PE?
Has your PE been acquired? (Developed after a period when you had adequate control and choice) Y, N?
Does your PE occur in all situations? Y, N?
Has it been more than a year since you have had a general physical by your DR which included a complete blood count and prostate exam? Y, N?
Do you have a family history of endocrine, blood, or neurological irregularities (IE; multiple sclerosis)? Y, N?
Did you or your partner recently contract a STD? Y, N?
Have you had, or do you still have, a physical illness (such as prostatitis, neuritis high blood pressure, or epilepsy) known to cause PE? Y, N?
- If you have answered yes to the first two questions, and at least one other, you may have this type of PE
You will need a thorough exam by your physician to determine what condition may be causing or contributing to your PE.

Step 5 – Do you have physical injury PE?
Has your PE been acquired? Y, N?
Does your PE occur in all situations? Y, N?
Has there been a physical injury, spinal injury, pelvic surgery or truma, or neurological trauma that coincided with or was followed some time later by PE?
- If you answered yes to all these you may have physical injury PE. Go see a doctor.

Step 6 – Do you have drug side-effect PE?
Has your PE been acquired? Y, N?
Does your PE occur in all situations? Y, N?
Have you recently stopped taking trifiluoperazine, nuboflurazine, solazine, stelzine, suprazine or terafluzine or any opiate (morphine)? Y, N?
Are you taking medication known to cause PE? Norpramin, desipramine, or a cold medicine containing ephedrine, or pseudoephedrine, Sudafed, actifiex, Comtrex, Dristan, sinutab, robitussin, Triaminic, broncholate, or dimetane-DC? Y, N?
-If you have you have answered yes to the first two questions and at least one other, then you may have this type of PE. If you recently discontinued one of the tranqz mentioned above or any opiate, then PE is a common reaction. Allowing the body time to readjust usually works. Talk to your doctor if you think your current medication is causing your PE.

Step 7 – Do you have psychological distress?
Has your PE been acquired? Y, N?
Does your PE occur in all situations? Y, N?
Are you experiencing significant psychological stress? Or a major life transition? Y, N?
Have you taken an objective psychological test that verifies you are experiencing psychological stress? Y, N?
-If you have answered yes to the first two questions and at least one other than you may have this type of PE. The critical difference between psychological PE and this distress PE is its source and its severity. Acquired psychological distress PE is a reaction to life’s events, and is usually easier to treat.

Step 8 – Do you have relationship distress PE?
Has your PE been acquired? Y, N?
Does PE occur only with your partner? Y, N?
Has your partner recently expressed dissatisfaction with your general relationship? Y, N?
Are you currently experiencing relationship distress such as poor communication, a deficit on emotional empathy, fighting, or unresolved conflicts? Y, N?
Have you recently taken an objective relationship test that suggests relationship distress? Y, N?
Have you thought recently that marital or relationship therapy might be helpful? Y, N?
- If you have answered yes to the first two questions and at least one other, you may have this type of PE. Not going to type the whole thing here, obviously your relationship may be causing PE.

Step 9 – Do you have mixed PE?
In addition to PE, do you experience another sexual problem such ad ED, inhibited sexual desire, or pain in your penis during sex. Do you sometimes ejaculate without an erection? Y, N?
Does this additional sexual dysfunction occur occasionally, frequently, or always?
- If you answered yes to both of these questions, then you may have this type of PE. It is normal to have sexual irregularities on occasion, but when this occurs regularly it represents a sexual dysfunction. Successful treatment of the other PE problems can help resolve this problem.

There is no God but ManOnTheMoon and MandM is his Prophet.

How severe is your PE?
If you take this test, be very honest. Just because you are frustrated and upset, don’t give yourself a 10 in each category. It is stated that there is a very positive outcome for all situations.
Determining the severity of your PE will help you gain perspective on how challenging your PE is, how diligent you will need to be in addressing it, and the extent to which you could benefit from professional consultation. Take a moment to complete the PE Severity index. (PESI). Make a copy and ask your partner to also complete the PESI. Although she will not know answers to some of the questions, her impressions of the severity of your PE will be helpful.
Note the number on a scale of 0 – 10 that you typically experience..
1. How long has PE been a problem for you? 10 – lifelong, 1 being recent, new problem
2. In what percent of all sex acts are you unable to choose when to ejaculate? 10 -100%, 0 – 0%
3. When do you normally ejaculate? 10 – Before penetration, 0 after some intercourse
4. If you can have intercourse, how long is it before you typically ejaculate? 10 – Not able to enter, 9 – 15 secs, 8 – 30 secs, 7 – 1m, 6 – 2min, 5 3 min, so on, 0 more than 15 mins.
5. Rate the intensity or vigor of physical stimulation at the time of ejaculation. 10- very mild, little or slow, 0 very intense vigorous or fast
6. How difficult is it for you to control or choose when you ejaculate? 10 – Extremely difficult, 0 – Extremely easy to control
7. How upset is your partner by your PE? 10 – Extremely troubled, 0 – very calm
8. How upset are you by your PE? 10 – Extremely troubled, 0 – Very calm
9. How much has your PE affected your life in general? 10 – Major impact (ie: ruined relationaship), 0 – no effect
10. How often when you have sex do you also have desire or erection problems? 10 – 100%, 0 – 0%
To determine you severity index, add your responses to steps 1 – 10.
0 – 20 – Very mild severity
20 – 40 – Mild Severity
40 – 60 – Moderate Severity
60 – 80 – High Severity
80 – 100 – Extreme Severity
The lower your sensitivity score, the more likely you are to be able to successfully resolve your PE. The most severe you PE is, the harder it will be to remedy and the more determined and disciplined you and your partner will need to be. If your case is of moderate severity, you have a good chance of addressing PE successfully through techniques in this book, but you will need to invest a good amount of personal and relationship energy. If your PESI score indicates high or extreme severity, it will be difficult to resolve PE on you own, and it is very likely you would benefit from the coaching and support of a trained marital and sex therapist.
The book goes on to describe exercises and things you should do to help in each category. I really don’t plan on typing this all out, if you want to see, but the book. I think it cost me like 12 bucks. Even if it doesn’t help you, at least if makes you understand PE a bit better.

inTango,

Here is some news to probably brighten your already miserable day.

I had sex tonight and it was pretty bad. I was done in about one minute. My girlfriend told me to pick it up after I was going slow and easy for about 40 seconds and so I did and was done shortly after.

My interpretation? We were rushed. She had to leave right away and we had just randomly gotten things going about 3 minutes before she had to leave so I told her not to worry she knew how quick I was - which convinced her to stay the extra bit to have sex. I was too excited about the fact I was finally having sex after something like three weeks I forgot the mindset I have been developing and I didn't even relax my PC muscle. Basically - boom boom boom done gg.

Cheers inTango maybe if I was on a few pills I wouldn't have sucked so bad. I really do apologize for ever suggesting solutions that didn't involve magical pill-taking cures. Perhaps one day you'll learn to forgive those of us who somehow do not believe they are God but actually do believe and support the possibility that we are strong enough people to eventually overcome these issues that so plague are minds.

After you grow out of the idea that I think I am God I am sure you'll soon start claiming I am trying to sell some phony product. Can't wait for that one.

Someone please get rid of this child.