sorry its not homicide whether you want to believe it or not it the not by law


for what you never committed a crime in the first place
its not their right a mother has a right to do as she please to her own body, it her body not yours



i am an incovenince to everyone but I wrong bring a child into this world to never know happiness oh and before you say well a good family can take that child think again. I went through the system and never had stability always moving from place to place cause a family only wants newborn so what if no one is there to take that child throught it to misery. Your naieve wake up and smell the coffee.

I am pro-choice everything in life is decided by the choices I make no god will tell me how to live no law will tell me how tlive but if I break the law I will go to jail. You or anybody else will tell me how make the choice in my life my body my mind my choice.

If I want to pick my nose thats my choice not yours to make
have a good one and hopefully you wake up to reality

these two comments just had me in stitches! I'm sure you are .N.O.T an inconvenience to anyone!

And pick that nose! Who doesn't..?

one would have to believe that an 8 week fetus is a child in order for the second half of your statement to ring true.

As to your other assumptions, is abortion a good thing? It is and it isn't. For some women, myself included, it is/was a very good thing. It was the right decision at the time and it was a positive experience, overall. For some women, they may feel that it was not the right decision for themselves. They may have felt pressured by any number of sources and they may not have liked the fact that they did what they felt compelled to do. I guess it's a good thing that this decision is left to the individual woman so that she can decide if an abortion is good for her life, family, health, and conscience.

if I had had to pay for it myself, it would have been near $500 (because I would have had full anesthesia). A large sum all at one time but not a heavy price overall. It would simply mean not going out to eat that month and not buying any books. As to using "price" in any other context, I have never regretted my decision and feel quite positive about my decision.

you have obviously never been pregnant or given birth. .Pregnancy and child birth are .M.O.R.E than just a mere inconvience. Attempting to dismiss the hell that it is, the risks that you are taking, and the .Actual physical and emotional costs that you bear during a pregnancy and child birth, makes you seem completely uncompassionate and unempathetic. .Women go through more than just an inconvenience to have children. Because of this, only the woman can decide if she wants to experience that torture for herself.

someone is killing children?! Call the police immediately if you know of this occurring. Killing children is absolutely against the law.

first, the .Woman's life is the most important in this equation. She is born, she lives, she breathes, feels, thinks, and acts. Her wishes, goals, health, and life take precedence because she can have those things. A fetus does not. Also, you cannot give the fetus that uses the woman's body, possibly against her wishes, precedence over the actual woman carrying it. To do so would be to make women mere incubators. The importance should be on the woman and since it is her body and hers alone, only she can decide what to do with it.
I am no longer a direct physical threat to my mother, her health, organs, and life. A fetus necessarily threatens the .Woman. Sometimes this threat is manageable, others it isn't. It isn't anyone elses right to determine who must take that risk unless it is your own body. Only the woman can decide to assume the risks of a pregnancy and she can end that pregnancy if she feels sufficiently threatened by it.

stitches never heard that before :d

yeah it gets picked daily lmao no just adding some of my sarcastic humour ironic eh?

yeah, "it had me in stitches" is an english term to mean "it made me really laugh" or "i laughed so much my sides split" etc. =]

I would say that the one who never had a chance at making their way in life is more important.

Anyone who talks themselves into believing otherwise has only selfish intentions.

As for no one wanting a child, except for newborns... Ummmm, I think that's what they call babies right after they are born.

As I said before it is not about the law, it is about logic and morals. Logically, if you can take away your own progeny's life at the begining, you can do the same at any stage in their life. I believe the government should stand up for the masses killed every day, but sadly... It is not so.

Those who try to decieve (others & themselves) argue over what we call the slaughtered babes. In reality it does not matter, they are still your children, still human, still deserving of life.

Women will continue to kill their own children. I just wish they would own up to what they actually did! No more excuses - you are a killer... However you justify it... Oh, i'm sorry, you leased a "hit man" to do your dirty work.

What is wrong with the world today? A selfish, confused, killer mentality - that is what is wrong with the world. Too bad we can't put some w.O.R.T.H. On human life.

N.I.N.E. M.O.N.T.H.S. Could have given someone their life!

pro-choice does not think that the fetus is a full human person, nor does it have or deserve full human person rights. Thus, you cannot murder it any mor than you can murder a cat or pig.



who will be dishing out this punishment?



it is about the right to one's own body, for the already born, already breathing mother. Abortion is sometimes necessary to save the mothers life. Surely you cannot dare call her a murderer? A fetus does not have the same rights as her because it is lesser, in every single way.



bodily rights. Take away the right to abortion, and you say all kinds of things aout a woman's right to her body. You say that she doesn't have a right to it, period. And that's wrong.

why? Why is a potential life more important than the life that is lready here and needs taking care of? Why do "what ifs" tke precedence over real life?



yes i'm so very selfish to want control over my own body.



yes, the are called babies right after they're born. Not before.



if you look at the biology of the situation, then you will see that your argument is complete bunk. The only person who has the right to care for or kill a fetus is the pregnant woman, because the fetus is entirely dependant on her body. After birth however, anyone anywehre with formul or breast-milk (aka a wet-nurse) could care for the child. Thus, the mother is no longer solely responsible for its existance, and she can no longer determine if it lives or dies. It is now seperate from her.

[quote] I believe the government should stand up for the masses killed every day, but sadly... It is not so.[quote]

it doesn't because it's not illegal. It's not a crime. We have a hard enough time feedin those of us already on this earth... We cannot be stressing about the potential mouths.



who is "we"? Pro-life? Then you are lying to yourselves. They are not babies, they are fetuses. That is the truth.

[quote] in reality it does not matter, they are still your children, still human, still deserving of life.

Women will continue to kill their own children. [quote]

and women who kill their children will go to jail. Women who abort will be released from the terrible situation they were in, as they have taken responsibility for the pregnacy and dealt with it in a perfectly legal, and rather safe fashion that spares them nine months of torment, plus the additional pain of adoption or raising the undwanted child. Or perhaps they are also removing the fetus from pain, as it may be deformed or mentally incapacitated. You seem to have forgotten about those cases though. The issue of abortion is about every single woman who choses to go through with it, not just the ones doing ti because they didn't have safe sex. It is about the twelve year old rape victim too, and the woman with the ectopic pregnancy.



they aborted... That's it. They should never feel guilt, and I hope they never do. I hope small-minded people like yourself



you're pretty stupid. You know how much life you kill every day? We are all killers, by simply digesting the food we need to survive. And I don't even mean the meat you may or may not eat. You have bacteria in your stomach that are symbiots with your body, they help break down your food. And then your stomach acid kills them and uses them as protein. What about that icky spider you squashed?



people like you.



sorry for digesting my food.



pro-choice does. We put it on the woman. Pro-life does too. They put it on the fetus.



and created hitler. Or stalin, or hussein. Splendid.

a coin has two sides

people have kids for selfish reason all the time does that make them bad?

Thing is the governement willnever see things your way cause a womans body is her own and noone else, if a man rapes a woman he goes to a jail if a fetus inhabits a woman it should too lol no honestly abortion is not selfish in some case "duh"

or eiri! Splendid.

if you deem it proper to compare me to hitler stalin and hussein, then you are obviously demented. It seems pro-life is always the one comparing pro-choice to killers... Yet pro-choice just sits patiently for the name calling to cease, and returns to the debate at hand. Funny, indeed.

it is alive, living, if you will. It is growing and developing, is it not? It is not a "what if" - if you can end it's life!




thank you for finally admitting it! Btw, you will never have control over your own body, there are bacteria abundant within you (and outside of you waiting to get in) - some of those bacteria are even detrimental to your health. So, should you have to die because you are dependant upon another entity? (lol, I just read further down in your post where you mention the same thing)


ok, so we agree a newborn is someone who has been newly born! You do not address what my statement was about - adoption. It was said that the problem with adoption is that people only want newborns - that is exactly what you get when you go through with a pregnancy, a newborn. That is why I believe the choice women make should be whether to adopt out or to keep the child... Killing it should not be a choice, anymore than it should be a choice for her to die.




i do not beilieve a woman has the right to kill a fetus... Hence your argument is complete bunk to me. It is actually quite easy to care for a child within the womb. Much easier than taking care of a child after it is born. The only thing the child within the womb is dependant upon is her living and her not killing the child. There are so many more factors once it is born. It does not matter who is responsible for keeping the child alive, it is still worthy of life... Well to me, anyway.



if the world started putting more importance on life, maybe all the starving people would actually start to mean something to everyone. Maybe, if we saw that all life is as important as ours, we would have a fairer distribution of food. There is plenty on this earth to sustain us.



as I refuse to argue over what they are called, and focus more on the fact that they exist (until someone kills them), I would be talking about you.




"taken responsibility for their pregnancy" - .T.H.A.T. Is exactly what they have not done. They take their child's life, reason it by saying it never mattered, and pretend it never existed.

As for the legality of it... "pro-choicers" are akin to accountants working their way around tax laws. Saddly such loopholes exist.


Also, plenty of deformed or mentally handicapped people get along quite happily in life! I suppose you think them not worthy of life either.


As I said elsewhere... I believe that when both can live - let both live. As it is impossible for the child within to live without the mother alive, the only reasonable action to take when the mother's life is at stake, is to abort.

Do not talk to me about raped and pregnant, as I know quite a bit about that.



i think if they are emotionally healthy/stable people, there is no other way to feel, but guilty.



sorry, I do not eat humans.


i did not know you were a cannibal.



i cannot speak for all pro-lifers... But I put the worth on .A.L.L.


so, I suppose we should have genetic testing done on everyone within the womb, and if they don't meet your ideals for an important person - kill em? Sounds like the mentality of the people you just named.

alive, yes. A life as we understand it, no. Those of us not suffering from delusion or demensia understand that a life is .M.O.R.E than breathing (which a fetus does not do until birth), eating (again, not until birth), and excreting. A life requires sentience - consciousness, the ability to act on one's own, thought, and response to stimuli.

The .Woman has a life already. The fetus does not, it merely has the potential to have a life if it reaches birth (which the majority of embryo's/fetus' do not). Therefore the full life in the way that we understand and value life takes precedence over the potential. The meal that you are eating right now, for example, takes precedence - requires the most attention - than the potential meal you have planned for tonight even if you have already put the ingredients in the crock pot/oven/etc.

Further, because we recognize and respect that the woman is a full and independent life, she is afforded rights. One of those rights is to determine what happens in and to her body whether she is pregnant or not. Because the .Woman and fetus share a symbiotic relationship and because the fetus is necessarily dependent upon the woman's body and resources, a problem with one necessarily affects the other. Because of this relationship, both the dependency and the parasitic behavior of the fetus and placenta, a pregnant .Woman is at risk for anything going wrong. It is unethical, not to mention illegal, to require women to assume this risk against their will. The .Woman is the only expert of her life and thus, she is the only one who can decide whether she will assume the risks of continuing a pregnancy. To require that she do so against her will would be to take away her rights to her own body when she becomes pregnant. Thus, treating women (pregnant vs not pregnant) differently in the law from one another and treating men and women differently in the law from one another. This is unconstitutional.




first, we .D.O have control over our own bodies. If something is threatening us - bacteria, cancer, or a pregnancy - we have the right to have it removed and reassert control over our bodies and health. Because the bacteria, cancer, and fetus are dependent upon our bodies, we can refuse further use of our bodies by having that which harms us removed.
should women have to die because a fetus is dependent upon their bodies? .N.O. Women who exercise their right over their own body to end a pregnancy can do so, even pre-emptively, for their health and life. As a direct result of abortion becoming legalized, maternal deaths in the .U.S have diminished drastically. The number one killer of a pregnant woman used to be the pregnancy before abortion was legalized. After abortion was legalized, the number one killer of pregnant women are their partners.

adoption is a parenting option, not a pregnancy option. It does nothing to help .Women assert control over their own lives, bodies, and health during pregnancy. Further, it does nothing for the .Women who can't or won't remain pregnant. Adoption is only an option if the .Woman is willing to assume the medical risks of continuing the pregnancy.
by not giving her the choice, you would be subjecting her to death or to an increase risk of death. This was very true and very much the reality before abortion was legalized again.

that is your opinion, not a fact.
then, by all means, keep all of your pregnancies. You won't hear us telling you what to do. We just ask that you not try to decide what we do with our bodies, pregnancies and lives. Since only your own pregnancies concern you, you should leave everyone elses alone, out of common courtesy if nothing else.
not if you are unable or unwilling to do so. That is the point. You cannot require a .Woman to remain pregnant against her will or capabilities. No one has ever been able to force women to remain pregnant. When abortion is illegal, .Women still have abortions they just become more dangerous because they are unregulated. Regulation with legalization saves lives - .Women's .Real, .Actual lives.
exactly! And .Women can end the pregnancy thus ending the dependency!
your opinion is only applicable to yourself.

woah now. If all of the people trying to stick their noses into my uterus, my life, my medical decisions were to actually .D.O something to help the people who do .Actually exist, then starving people would get fed. You cannot help everyone all of the time. Therefore, you put priorities on the people you will care for. if the priority was actually those people who are .Actually already living their lives, their would be less hunger, disease, poverty, and illiteracy. but no, people are far more interested in the contents of my uterus when what I decide has no impact on their own life! Start respecting .Women and put importance on their lives as more than just incubators, and things would really start changing around here.

actually, no, there isn't. It takes approximately 1/7 hectacre of land to produce a purely vegetarian diet for each .Actual human person on earth. With 6,000,000,000 people currently on the planet, we do not have enough usable land to produce such a diet. Even supplementing the diet with meat (which actually takes up more land because you must grow grain, grass, or some other vegetation or the meat to eat), there is simply not enough to go around. It only seems that way in industrialized nations, especially the united states, because we consume much more than we grow and give.

And, without respect for individual people's bodies and their demands for those bodies, the government could require organ donation, blood donation, mandatory testing, etc. If you don't own your own body, all the time, then the government can use if for any purpose they deem fit.

they do not "exist" in the way that we typically identify with. Human persons are independent, living, breathing, producing agents who can usually make decisions and actions. Human persons exist. We can see, touch, hear and sometimes smell them. Fetus' do not exist in the same way. They are dependent, only alive because the woman is alive, and you cannot touch, hear, or smell them (in fact, I wouldn't even consider "see" because you must have the technology to see them when people you can see with your own eyes). Existence on a life support system is not a full, independent existence. We recognize this.

tomato, tomahto. Your opinion of responsibility does not matter. It is only the individual woman's opinion of responsibility that matters to her.

she was not speaking of those people. She was speaking of the massive deformities that are inconducive to life off of the support system - ie, the woman's body. About 2,000 women each year will have to abort for severe deformities. If they did not, at birth (assuming they, themselves, survived that far) the fetus would either be born dead or would die shortly after. For many of these, immense pain would be present from birth until they died. This is not a life nor is it merciful to give birth just to watch the neonate die. Another 1,500 women, on average, will also abort due to retardation, down's syndrome, or autism. In these cases, the .Women and their families believe that this will be the more merciful option as well. Many of them cannot or will not seek adoption (and there's a great possibility that no one would want that child) and they also know that they, themselves, cannot emotionally, physically, or financially handle a child like that.

These are tragic circumstances because often, these women greatly wanted their pregnancies and then something went terribly wrong and they had to end them.

it is not your body, therefore you cannot tell another woman what to do with her own body. If she cannot or will not let the pregnancy continue, that is her decision to make - not anyone elses. Until that body magically becomes your own, what you believe doesn't matter.
it is a reality for tens of thousands of women each year. And because it is their own body that has been violated, only they can decide which medical treatment to pursue.

the majority of women who obtain an abortion do not have any negative, long term emotional effects stemming from either the unintended pregnancy or the abortion. The majority of women who obtain an abortion are emotionally healthy/stable people. Your opinion is, thankfully, not the fact here either.

neither do women who abort.

you cannot put worth on both the .Woman and the fetus because of the physical dependency of the fetus. They cannot share the same the body and have equivalent rights. Someone must own that body, make the final decisions regarding that body and since only one of them can do that, it is left to the .Actual person - the woman.

."w.E" shouldn't do anything. Women can do whatever they want to their pregnancies because it doesn't affect me or you or anyone else. .If a woman wants to get genetic testing or an amniocentesis to determine whether the fetus is one that she can and is willing to carry, that is her perogative because it's her body, her pregnancy, and her life. My opinions/beliefs and yours have nothing to do with her or her pregnancy. It is up to the .Woman, not the government, not society, just the woman to decide the scope and direction her life will take including whether she remains pregnant or not. Since that decision only affects her body and life, she is the only one who can make it.

acutally, I thought that was funny. nightangel made a 'joke'!

And in this thread, is abortion justified even if the foetus is sentient? The name calling was started by the pc'ers.

was it really? Lol. Who dun it? And I can never tell when to take her seriously or when she's joking, so I go the safe road and always give her the respect of taking her seriously. I wish she'd do the same.

i know, I know...She's a little trollish, and I think she really believes most of what she types, but the other stuff is a (lame) attempt to get a laugh.

i have had three children, and I must say I still stick with what I said. It is in no way "hell" - that is quite an imbellishment. Even throwing up every single day, with my last one... A very small thing to bring a life into this world.

I stand by what I said, it is a mere inconvenievece, for nine months. In the course of our lives that is roughly 1%... For a whole lifetime.

hun, please remeber that what you consider a minor inconveniece, someone else may consider unbreable. You and someone else have different tolerances for pain and discomfort.

For some women, even mothers, pregnancy was hell; they hated it.

alright, I will give you that some women hate it more than others... But I really am going to stick to the time issue! Lol