Abortion Debate Forum - Are Women Who Want to Abort Given Enough Information?

diamondsz

replied on December 11th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

They are given the info, yet some choose to ignore it or as I would like to say selective hearing. Down here they give you a pamphlet with all the information as to what is done and the risk, before you can get an abortion you have to sign it as to the point if you dont understand you have to have someone translate and sign with you legally stating that u understand!

When you go they give you an u/s to find the location of the embryo but they will show you if you ask and you can back out at any time. They also make you talk with a counsellor that provides unbiased support in which ever way you choose to go.

I know everywhere is not the same but in quebec/ontario that is how they work, by law they have to provide all the information or risk being sued, drs are payed by the government and not by patients!

On another note they dont do abortions over 13 weeks here at all unless its to save the mothers health, anything or 13 weeks you have to go to the states!

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Birch

replied on December 11th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

Fully informed consent is what I believe in.

I think women need to have absolutely all resources possible available to her, and she may choose to receive them or not.

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msrosie

replied on December 11th, 2006

Experienced User

diamondsz wrote:

when you go they give you an u/s to find the location of the embryo but they will show you if you ask and you can back out at any time.

i am in ontario and never had an u/s before my abortion. I do not think they are necessary in the first trimester unless there's some doubt about gestational age and do not think the public health system should be paying for every women who aborts to have one.

I do feel if the woman has an u/s and wants to see it, she should be allowed to.

Quote:

on another note they dont do abortions over 13 weeks here at all unless its to save the mothers health, anything or 13 weeks you have to go to the states!

that's 20 weeks, not 13.

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jenn_smithson

replied on December 11th, 2006

Active User, very eHealthy

Re: Are Women Who Want to Abort Given Enough Information?

purestgreen wrote:

i'd be interested in people's opinions on the matter of how much information should be given to a woman who is planning a termination.

When I have read accounts from women who regret their abortions, something that is often said is that they feel they were not given the full information about exactly what the procedure involved and also what their baby looked like. For example, many women are not allowed to look at the ultrasound image of their baby - or if they ask, it is strongly advised that they do not look. One lady I have just read about says that she had no idea what was involved in a .D&.E abortion and is traumatised now because she has since researched it and the knowledge haunts her.

Should women who are going for an abortion be shielded from the reality of the procedure? Should they not be told what will happen to the embryo/foetus? Should they not be allowed to see the ultrasound picture of their baby? I don't think they should be forced to see an image but in my opinion it should be compulsory for the patient to be told exactly what the procedure involves. You don't have to use fancy or emotional language to achieve this.

unfortunately with this issue, emotional language is often preferred by the states in order to coerce women out of their decision to obtain an abortion. I have a problem with so-called "informed consent" laws not because I am against women knowing what is going on - the opposite is actually the truth - but am against the way that the states have chosen to give said information and the emotional manipulation that they are trying to do. In the state of texas and in many other states that have "informed consent," women are frequently talked down to, patronized, over-emotional language is preferred, the information is not scientifically accurate, and artist renditions of fetal development - as opposed to actual photographs or computer models - are often inappropriate.

So-called "informed consent" in texas, actually states under risks of an abortion:
".Death, sterility, infection, and breast cancer." there is no other factual information given about the actual statistical relevance of these "risks" of an abortion. Instead, that portion of the pamphlet is designed to scare women away from choosing an abortion by lying to them and convincing them that they are going to die or get breast cancer if they go through with it.

Secondly, throughout the entire pamphlet the term "baby" is used instead of the term "fetus." this just goes to show you that the actual medical terminology used is lacking, the over-emotional chosen instead of the appropriate.

Thirdly, the "fetal development" images used are mostly artist renditions. This means that they all necessarily have more human characteristics than an 8 week fetus actually has. In fact, the picture of the 8 week fetus inside the pamphlet shows what I would consider a live baby, sucking its thumb, with actual eyes, eyelids, big-heart-melting eyelashes, a cute button nose. It does not show you the almost alien-looking figure with big black orbital sockets in a large bulbous head and the remainder of a vestigial tail which is actually what an 8 week fetus resembles.

If anything, it is .T.H.I.S treatment that is patronising to women seeking an abortion.

But, I suppose lying to women is okay as long as they keep the pregnancy, right?

Quote:

how can it be acceptable to gloss over the facts and patronise a woman by not giving her the full information about her medical procedure? Are the medical staff worried that the woman may change her mind if they tell her the truth?

it's not and I would doubt that this happened at all or happens widely. The fact is that women are given the facts but depending on their state, the method of delivery of these facts may cause them to not pay attention or they may choose not to know the specifics.

And, despite all the lying that does go on with so-called "informed consent," women still choose to obtain an abortion.

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Birch

replied on December 11th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

Re: Are Women Who Want to Abort Given Enough Information?

jenn_smithson wrote:

purestgreen wrote:

i'd be interested in people's opinions on the matter of how much information should be given to a woman who is planning a termination.

When I have read accounts from women who regret their abortions, something that is often said is that they feel they were not given the full information about exactly what the procedure involved and also what their baby looked like. For example, many women are not allowed to look at the ultrasound image of their baby - or if they ask, it is strongly advised that they do not look. One lady I have just read about says that she had no idea what was involved in a .D&.E abortion and is traumatised now because she has since researched it and the knowledge haunts her.

Should women who are going for an abortion be shielded from the reality of the procedure? Should they not be told what will happen to the embryo/foetus? Should they not be allowed to see the ultrasound picture of their baby? I don't think they should be forced to see an image but in my opinion it should be compulsory for the patient to be told exactly what the procedure involves. You don't have to use fancy or emotional language to achieve this.

unfortunately with this issue, emotional language is often preferred by the states in order to coerce women out of their decision to obtain an abortion. I have a problem with so-called "informed consent" laws not because I am against women knowing what is going on - the opposite is actually the truth - but am against the way that the states have chosen to give said information and the emotional manipulation that they are trying to do. In the state of texas and in many other states that have "informed consent," women are frequently talked down to, patronized, over-emotional language is preferred, the information is not scientifically accurate, and artist renditions of fetal development - as opposed to actual photographs or computer models - are often inappropriate.

So-called "informed consent" in texas, actually states under risks of an abortion:
".Death, sterility, infection, and breast cancer." there is no other factual information given about the actual statistical relevance of these "risks" of an abortion. Instead, that portion of the pamphlet is designed to scare women away from choosing an abortion by lying to them and convincing them that they are going to die or get breast cancer if they go through with it.

Secondly, throughout the entire pamphlet the term "baby" is used instead of the term "fetus." this just goes to show you that the actual medical terminology used is lacking, the over-emotional chosen instead of the appropriate.

Thirdly, the "fetal development" images used are mostly artist renditions. This means that they all necessarily have more human characteristics than an 8 week fetus actually has. In fact, the picture of the 8 week fetus inside the pamphlet shows what I would consider a live baby, sucking its thumb, with actual eyes, eyelids, big-heart-melting eyelashes, a cute button nose. It does not show you the almost alien-looking figure with big black orbital sockets in a large bulbous head and the remainder of a vestigial tail which is actually what an 8 week fetus resembles.

If anything, it is .T.H.I.S treatment that is patronising to women seeking an abortion.

But, I suppose lying to women is okay as long as they keep the pregnancy, right?

Quote:

how can it be acceptable to gloss over the facts and patronise a woman by not giving her the full information about her medical procedure? Are the medical staff worried that the woman may change her mind if they tell her the truth?

it's not and I would doubt that this happened at all or happens widely. The fact is that women are given the facts but depending on their state, the method of delivery of these facts may cause them to not pay attention or they may choose not to know the specifics.

And, despite all the lying that does go on with so-called "informed consent," women still choose to obtain an abortion.

whoa, I had no idea. That is absolutely ridiculous, and another reason why texas should be annexed from the .U.S. Is that mandated by the state in some way? I mean, it seems like it wouldn't be in the abortion clinic's best interests, for one.

Ohio is completely different. It was more about the surgery and risks involving that than any kind of emotive speak. I think there was a blurb about how a study may have linked abortion to breast cancer, but it was inconclusive. There was information about death, but it pertained more to death due to anesthesia than the abortion itself. A sonogram was not offered (at six weeks). A very basic video about the procedure, in which the term "fetus" was used, was shown, but only so that the woman was fully aware of what the surgery entailed.

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jenn_smithson

replied on December 11th, 2006

Active User, very eHealthy

Re: Are Women Who Want to Abort Given Enough Information?

birch wrote:

whoa, I had no idea. That is absolutely ridiculous, and another reason why texas should be annexed from the .U.S. Is that mandated by the state in some way?

the state of texas mandates it as well as develops the pamphlets that are required to be distributed and the recorded message that women must listen to 24 hours prior to their appointment.

Quote:

I mean, it seems like it wouldn't be in the abortion clinic's best interests, for one.

it doesn't harm the providers at the moment because the pamphlets cost the state (and most women dismiss them anyway) and the recording just cost the doctor a few minutes of his/her time with the answering machine.

Quote:

ohio is completely different. It was more about the surgery and risks involving that than any kind of emotive speak. I think there was a blurb about how a study may have linked abortion to breast cancer, but it was inconclusive. There was information about death, but it pertained more to death due to anesthesia than the abortion itself. A sonogram was not offered (at six weeks). A very basic video about the procedure, in which the term "fetus" was used, was shown, but only so that the woman was fully aware of what the surgery entailed.

this is perfectly fine with me and no less than would be expected for care. In fact, for colposcopy's we have a similar method of educating the client (sans the information about fetal development since there is no fetus involved). I would have no problem if this was what was being given to women seeking an abortion but it's not (at least in texas). Instead, it's used as a method of manipulation trying to persuade women against their first decision.

I honestly don't mind if women change their minds but I want it to be because it's honestly what they want, not because they are terrified of what they've been told will happen if they do not.

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Lolly_Poppy

replied on December 16th, 2006

New User

Hello, I just happened to stumble across this site and finding it quite informative. My comment it to diamondsz - im from alberta and I had no idea that there was difference between abortion laws between the provinces. Here in alberta abortion is legal up until 20 or 24 weeks (can't recall) or longer if there are genetic problems or womans health issues. I am a mother of 2 and have had 2 abortions 1 medical and 1 surgical, with both my abortions I was overloaded with information prior to both from the clinic counsellors. Oh, abortion in alberta is 100% fully funded by the government.

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