....Excuse me.


She gave him advice on how to safely use the pills he had already obtained since it was obvious they were going to try it regardless. Would you rather .Carifairy had said nothing and this woman had done it incorrectly?

You're ignoring the fact that *many* of us advised blue_chevy against doing this without a doctor.


What would you have .Carifairy do? Honestly?

***edited for a spelling error, and to add the following***

.You act as though we pushed abortion on this person. That is not the case. Please read back over the threads and take them in context.

as long as she could not find a medical supervision I would discourage her from attempting to use the drug (which many of you did). But discouraging along with posting a website where she can buy the drug is some what hypocritical, in my opinion.

The administration of this drug requires follow up visits and close medical supervision. Administering this drug privately is like using a coat hanger.... I thought that pro-choicers are against going back to those times again. What about consistency?

this was the reply this person gave after a few of us tried to advise him against doing this. Does it look to you like he/she was looking for another answer? No. They were going ahead with the medical abortion regardless. The least .Carifairy could do at that point was to at least give him/her tips on how to do it as safely as possible. She was not agreeing with this person taking matters into their own hands, as shown here:



would you rather she have continued to preach not to do it while this person allowed his girlfriend to use the pills incorrectly and possibly done herself serious harm?

i think it also should be told that cytotec's manufacturer never approved the product for inducing labor or abortion:
http://www.Fda.Gov/medwatch/safety/2000/cy tote.Htm

your point? For those of us with some medical knowledge, we already know that off label uses for prescription drugs has gone on since the dawn of medicine itself. Hundreds of thousands of drugs are prescribed and used every single day for a variety of purposes not intended by the manufacturers of the drug itself. This is standard operating procedure for every doctor, doctor's office, and patient around the world. You, yourself, without exception, have taken some medication for a purpose that was not intended by its manufacturers. This is a fact.

my point is that there is more "unknown" then "known" for this drug to be used without medical supervision. It is very like as coat hanger era.

***edited for the purpose of clarification (just in case)******

cytotec- manufatured for patience with the risk of ulcers.
Coat hanger- manufactured to hang coats

niether was invented for the purpose of aborting

the point is that this couple was going to use cytotec whether or not we told them how to do it correctly. In this case, it is far, far safer to simply inform them how to do it right, then to sit back on you morals and watch a woman die from using it incorrectly.

Thank you, .Eiri.

actually, you are just showing your ignorance on this issue. Whether the drug is intended to treat ulcer's, pimples, or whatever, doctors and other medical researchers and professionals have long ago discovered its uses in other areas. They did this through medical testing. And, through medical testing, they discovered that this drug could be safely used to induce an abortion.

Therefore, your little coat hanger analogy is useless because the two are nothing like one another. Unlike a coat hanger which has never been tested in the use of obstetrics or gynecology, cytotec has been tested! Not only has it been tested, but it has been found to be safe. Whether the drug was intended for that purpose or not does not matter. What matters is that unlike a coat hanger, it has at least been tested in this area and been proven safe and effective. You are trying to compare apples to oranges when the comparison will only work between apples and apples or oranges and oranges.


again, it does not mean that neither was not later tested in the field of obstetrics and gynecology and found to be both safe and effective in inducing an abortion. One of them was and it was cytotec!

Your assumption that simply because it was not manufactured with the same intent that it was used and therefore it cannot be used safely in other areas it was not manufactured for is false.

yes cytotec was tested, but it was not tested for home use without a medical supervision. Besides there was entire group of women that could not participate in the testing due to the possible health risks. None of that was touched in the advises to blue_chevy. She clearly mentioned that no doctors in her country offer ru 486, I suppose there may be a danger that doctors there may have a hard time providing emergency help, if needed. If many of you were so caring why didn't you offer her to come to country like us or uk for the procedure so she can have medical supervision? Or is it that this kind of support is a little over the top?

What would you have advised, eugenia?

clearly this person mentioned it was illegal for them to abort in their country, cairifairy mentioned to seek medical advice first but then the guy just wanted to know the dosage to take!

Clearly you are ignorant to the fact that if she did it with a coat hanger or turpentine she would have died cairifairy was providing information on safe abortion!

i may be ignorant, as you call me. Never the less the were recorded cases when women died taking ru-486. What if her pregnancy was ectopic? Even abortion providers will tell you that ru-486 should not be used for an ectopic pregnancy.

there are many reported cases of women dying while giving birth. Guess we shouldn't advise that, either.

Yeah it sucks that they are going to be using this without a dr present or to help out but it's clear that they are going to use it anyway no matter what someone says. No I don't agree that they should use it but since they are going to anyway they need to be told how to do it. I would rather someone post how to do it rather then just tell them not too and then someone dies.

open your eyes, please, just a little to the actual circumstances of the individual poster in the other forum. abortion is .I.L.L.E.G.A.L in their nation so everything that they are doing is outside of the law. Therefore, they cannot simply go up to the clinic and say, "i got these drugs, how much do I take before I start to miscarry?" because it will get them arrested or possibly much, much worse. Since they already had the pills and are going to use them regardless of if they have medical care or not, the compassionate and empathetic advice is that which will help them carry out their plans in the safest way possible.

.T.H.A.T is support based on the individual, not based on dogma or beliefs.

You are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill because you do not agree with any abortions.

If you would open your eyes to the lives of the individuals who come here, you would see that sending them off to take the pills without any advice as to the dosage is much more like sending them off with a coat hanger and some vaseline than giving them the information to safely abort with the tools that they already possess.

the more you post, the more you show yourself as grasping at straws (ie, ectopic pregnancy scare) because your personal beliefs mean more to you than being compassionate toward the people who need help.


Did you once stop to consider the fact that not only is abortion illegal in their country but premarital/extramarital pregnancy may be as well? .She could be stoned to death in the public square if someone was to discover that she's pregnant and unmarried. this is also why sending them to the local clinic may be more harmful than helpful because the clinic officials could report them and thus, send them to their deaths. If they have the pills and are going to use them, it is far more compassionate to see that they don't overdose than it is to wash our hands of the situation.


Get your head out of the sand. This issue is never black and white, especially when there are circumstances very different than in your own country.

Exactly.

It's the same with anything illegal.
If someone is going to do - regardless of advice or your personal belief, the best thing you can do is advise them how to do it safely.

I read the post and was like he|| telling someone to carry ou an abortion - oh my that's so unethical".

Then I read the post, and understood why the poster advised them in the best manner in which to use the drugs they already had.

Her advise could actually have saved the girls life.
Given that if there are any complications post abortively, the girl can go to a doctor and claim she miscarried but it doesn't appear to have completely passed, in which case they are obliged to treat her and no-one need know what really happened.

This is what would happen in the states and/or usa *if* abortion was illegalised.

You know what? No, I most certianly did not like the idea of them having an at home aboriton without a doctors supervision, but if they would have used too much she could have fared far worse!!

I told them the safe dosage, not because I condone the behavior, but because I at least do not want an overdose to occur.

No, I do not condone 11 year olds having sex, but if they are going to anyway, you get them birth control and condoms.

That is why I did it paganangel, if she took too much then it could have had disasterous effects.