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Debate Forums > Abortion Debate Forum > This Is Project Rachel (Page 1)
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Q: This Is Project Rachel
asked by: diamondsz on November 4th, 2006
Extremely eHealthy
This is what they have on their site for abortion aftermath (its hilarious almost brain washing)

i also called them under false pretenses
"almost the whole call was god will forgive you child, just never forget that baby"

.Pissed me off so they are making woman/some feel remorseful
doesnt it look like half the stuff eugenia has been posting??

Anyways quoting this from
http://www.Hopeafterabortion.Com/hope.Cfm? Sel=c18l

while some women report relatively little trauma following abortion, for many, the experience is devastating, causing severe and long-lasting emotional, psychological and spiritual trauma.

Evidence of post-abortion trauma is increasingly attested to by psychologists, counselors and those involved in post-abortion ministry. We now know, for example, that women hurt by abortion may have some or many of the following symptoms:

* low self-esteem
* grief (mild to profound)
* depression (sometimes to the point of suicidal thoughts and attempts)
* a sense of alienation from family and friends
* a feeling of being 'numb,' not able to feel joy from activities that used to be pleasurable
* isolating self from others to avoid discussing the abortion experience with them
* guilt and shame
* difficulty concentrating
* anger toward self, or the child's father, or others involved in the abortion decision
* sleep disorders
* abortion-related nightmares, flashbacks or even sounds of a baby crying
* alcohol and drug problems, to dull the sorrow
* desire for a 'replacement' baby
* anniversary reactions of grief or depression on the date of the abortion or the baby's expected due date
* problems bonding with her other children (being over-protective but emotionally distant)
* fear that god will punish her, or is punishing her

some, especially young girls, experience symptoms soon after the abortion. Counselors tell us, however, that it is more common for the symptoms to occur over the course of five to twelve years after the abortion before a woman seeks help.

Abortion's aftermath is largely ignored by the general public. Groups organized to protect the availability of abortion claim that abortion is no different from any surgical procedure and that pro-life groups are fabricating the existence of post-abortion suffering. Consequently, many women think that their grief reactions are somehow abnormal and believe that there is nowhere to turn for help.

Many women who have walked a path of grief and hopelessness after abortion, usually alone, eventually begin to understand that they have a deep spiritual wound. But sadly, they also are likely to believe that they have committed 'the unforgivable sin' and fear god's anger.

Women who have had an abortion often have many questions, the answers to which are indispensable to beginning the healing journey. Can god ever forgive me? Can my child? Can I ever forgive myself? Will the church let me stay when I confess this sin? Will this horrible pain ever go away? Is healing possible?

The answer to all these questions is, of course, yes!
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Jules
replied on November 4th, 2006
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Re: This Is Project Rachel
diamondsz wrote:
i also called them under false pretenses
"almost the whole call was god will forgive you child, just never forget that baby"


.I am in no way religious but I see nothing wrong with a woman being told that if she has rung them in genuine distress. I would be angry if you'd said that they'd told you that you were going to hell and you were wicked and your baby was crying for you or something.

No-one is forcing a woman to ring this number! If she doesn't like what she hears then she can hang up and say to herself 'bloody catholic nonsense' but if she draws comfort from believing that she is forgiven and can therefore forgive herself (because she obviously believes that she needs forgiveness) then what is wrong with that?

Not everyone can have an abortion and just carry on and forget about it and not everyone who regrets their abortion has pre-existing mental problems! For whatever reason, if a woman is feeling guilty for her abortion and she can find comfort from somewhere and move on with her life then I think that is no bad thing.
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Cambion
replied on November 4th, 2006
Active User, very eHealthy
I hate hearing women whine about how they aborted their babies...Um, no ladies. You aborted a fetus, not a baby. Aborting a baby would be illegal and you probably would be in prison on counts of homicide or assault if you aborted an actual baby. But I suppose saying they aborted their baby is more sugar-coated than saying they aborted their fetus. Gotta love how these women use personification of their fetuses.

Sometimes I think women will claim regret for 'killing their babies' to elicit sympathy and attention. If you say you aborted a fetus, some people probably wouldn't turn their heads. However, if you said you killed your baby, everyone would look at you. Even if it's negative attention, sometimes I think it's what these women want.

I suppose I just don't understand why some women grieve their abortions for years and years. In most cases, the woman can have another child, so why is that terminated fetus so blasted important? Why do people choose to live so much in the past and refuse to look to the future? I know abortions aren't pleasant experiences and I can imagine feeling a little upset over the actual procedure - but grieving for a fetus? That would be like grieving over your appendix if you had it removed. Whatever.
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Jules
replied on November 4th, 2006
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cambion wrote:
... But grieving for a fetus? That would be like grieving over your appendix if you had it removed. Whatever.


.For you it would be like that. You are not representative of all women and have no right to judge those that grieve over their abortions just as no-one has the right to judge you for thinking you wouldn't grieve.

Also, the reason a woman may grieve over an abortion and not just think 'oh i'll have another baby one day, so what?' is because she knows she can never have that particular baby back. It may have been a tiny embryo when it was aborted but it was a unique human being in the making and no other future child will replace that.

There are attention seekers everywhere but post abortion syndrome is as real as post natal depression and the sufferer should be treated with compassion.

Ever done something you regret? If not then you are a rarity.
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paganangel
replied on November 4th, 2006
Experienced User
cambion wrote:
i hate hearing women whine about how they aborted their babies...Um, no ladies. You aborted a fetus, not a baby. Aborting a baby would be illegal and you probably would be in prison on counts of homicide or assault if you aborted an actual baby. But I suppose saying they aborted their baby is more sugar-coated than saying they aborted their fetus. Gotta love how these women use personification of their fetuses.


Sometimes I think women will claim regret for 'killing their babies' to elicit sympathy and attention. If you say you aborted a fetus, some people probably wouldn't turn their heads. However, if you said you killed your baby, everyone would look at you. Even if it's negative attention, sometimes I think it's what these women want.


I suppose I just don't understand why some women grieve their abortions for years and years. In most cases, the woman can have another child, so why is that terminated fetus so blasted important? Why do people choose to live so much in the past and refuse to look to the future? I know abortions aren't pleasant experiences and I can imagine feeling a little upset over the actual procedure - but grieving for a fetus? That would be like grieving over your appendix if you had it removed. Whatever.


so you think these women have no right to grieve? i agree with everything purest green has said. These women are not required to call this number. If they need help in one way or another are not entitled to it?

Diamondsz--why in the world would you call them? That's like a 12 year old pulling a prank and is very childish. You don't agree with what they have to say? Don't call them. The women that call have probably researched and understand the program....The woman is probably already remorseful that is why she is calling.

No one can make you feel guilty or remorseful unless you let them. If they honestly don't regret an abortion I highly doubt they would call this number. If they do call then they probably already feel some sort of regret and need help with that. Is that such a bad thing? Or should these women not be offered help? Maybe they should just be left to suffer...I'm sure pro-choice (claiming to be pro-woman) would be all for letting them suffer huh?
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diamondsz
replied on November 4th, 2006
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Yeah but asking god/ a baby for forgiveness is caca its not a baby and when people recognize it for what it is I will be happy!
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paganangel
replied on November 4th, 2006
Experienced User
diamondsz wrote:
yeah but asking god/ a baby for forgiveness is caca its not a baby and when people recognize it for what it is I will be happy!


we all know that baby is a term of endearment. Never once during my pregnancy did I say "wonder how my fetus is today"....They recognize what it is but they choose to call it whatever they want. Why is that such a problem?

I've talked to women before and they say "why did I kill my baby?" because in their eyes to them it was their baby even though medically speaking it is termed a fetus.
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Jules
replied on November 5th, 2006
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paganangel wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
yeah but asking god/ a baby for forgiveness is caca its not a baby and when people recognize it for what it is I will be happy!


we all know that baby is a term of endearment. Never once during my pregnancy did I say "wonder how my fetus is today"....They recognize what it is but they choose to call it whatever they want. Why is that such a problem?


absolutely! If it is a 'baby' to the individual woman and the term has significance to her then who are you to tell her 'oh don't be silly, it's a foetus, not a baby'? Somehow, I don't think using the accurate medical term will help her feel any better - only caring support will do that.
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nightangel73
replied on November 5th, 2006
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Correct hence that's why there are 'baby showers' and not 'fetus showers' diamond have you ever heard of 'fetus showers'? For every pregnant woman I see I ask them how's your baby doing? And they all say me 'my baby is doing fine' nobody has ever said me 'my fetus is doing fine'. Diamond the reason people use the term of endearment 'baby' to the fetus is because the fetus looks like a baby! The fetus doesn't look like a tiger or a lion, it looks like a baby!! You should not be bothered for people using terms of endearment. If it bothers you is because you definetly feel guilt. See since I have never had an abortion it doesn't bother me.
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justgottaloveit
replied on November 5th, 2006
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nightangel73 wrote:
correct hence that's why there are 'baby showers' and not 'fetus showers' diamond have you ever heard of 'fetus showers'?


the usa is one of few nations in the world where "baby" showers are held before a baby is born. It is actually considered bad luck in many nations/religions.
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diamondsz
replied on November 6th, 2006
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justgottaloveit wrote:
nightangel73 wrote:
correct hence that's why there are 'baby showers' and not 'fetus showers' diamond have you ever heard of 'fetus showers'?


the usa is one of few nations in the world where "baby" showers are held before a baby is born. It is actually considered bad luck in many nations/religions.


that is very true, both our cultures are like that!!!

Maybe we should call them fetus showers it actually has a nice ring to it
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Kia
replied on November 6th, 2006
Supporter
Re: This Is Project Rachel
purestgreen wrote:
.I am in no way religious but I see nothing wrong with a woman being told that if she has rung them in genuine distress. I would be angry if you'd said that they'd told you that you were going to hell and you were wicked and your baby was crying for you or something.


No-one is forcing a woman to ring this number! If she doesn't like what she hears then she can hang up and say to herself 'bloody catholic nonsense' but if she draws comfort from believing that she is forgiven and can therefore forgive herself (because she obviously believes that she needs forgiveness) then what is wrong with that?


it would really piss me off Confused If I called someone in genuine distress and all they could do was preach at me i'd be well and truly racked off.

I don't force my religious beliefs on others and I don't expect to have someone else slap me with theirs.

Yes I could hang up but the damage is already done.
People should be able to ring help lines and be helped by fact not religious panderings.
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Jules
replied on November 6th, 2006
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Re: This Is Project Rachel
kia_breizzze wrote:
purestgreen wrote:
.I am in no way religious but I see nothing wrong with a woman being told that if she has rung them in genuine distress. I would be angry if you'd said that they'd told you that you were going to hell and you were wicked and your baby was crying for you or something.



No-one is forcing a woman to ring this number! If she doesn't like what she hears then she can hang up and say to herself 'bloody catholic nonsense' but if she draws comfort from believing that she is forgiven and can therefore forgive herself (because she obviously believes that she needs forgiveness) then what is wrong with that?


it would really piss me off Confused If I called someone in genuine distress and all they could do was preach at me i'd be well and truly racked off.


I don't force my religious beliefs on others and I don't expect to have someone else slap me with theirs.


Yes I could hang up but the damage is already done.

People should be able to ring help lines and be helped by fact not religious panderings.


then don't ring a helpline for .Catholics! Rolling Eyes their website is very clear!
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Kia
replied on November 6th, 2006
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Re: This Is Project Rachel
purestgreen wrote:
then don't ring a helpline for .Catholics! Rolling Eyes their website is very clear!


haha I didn't even go to the site I was just replying to the first post.

But yeah - I wouldn't so it's all good.
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Jules
replied on November 6th, 2006
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Sorry kia - didn't mean to snap your head off there Wink
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Kia
replied on November 6th, 2006
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purestgreen wrote:
sorry kia - didn't mean to snap your head off there Wink


you didn't Shocked or at least I didn't feel it Laughing
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Tazzy D
replied on November 7th, 2006
Advanced Support Team
justgottaloveit wrote:
nightangel73 wrote:
correct hence that's why there are 'baby showers' and not 'fetus showers' diamond have you ever heard of 'fetus showers'?


the usa is one of few nations in the world where "baby" showers are held before a baby is born. It is actually considered bad luck in many nations/religions.



nice try pc
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diamondsz
replied on November 7th, 2006
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tazzy d wrote:
justgottaloveit wrote:
nightangel73 wrote:
correct hence that's why there are 'baby showers' and not 'fetus showers' diamond have you ever heard of 'fetus showers'?


the usa is one of few nations in the world where "baby" showers are held before a baby is born. It is actually considered bad luck in many nations/religions.



nice try pc


tazzy I dont know if your trying to conteplate this but its actually true, italian and filipinos view that the same way and I can mention a few other cultures who do too its a superstitious thing but actually has truth to it!

In our family they will still have a shower but we wait until the 9th month just to be sure as we had a shower for a family member who ended up with a still birth!

Could you imagine staring at baby stuff after a loss thats pretty harsh!
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Kia
replied on November 7th, 2006
Supporter
diamondsz wrote:
could you imagine staring at baby stuff after a loss thats pretty harsh!


yes, I can and yes, it is.
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diamondsz
replied on November 7th, 2006
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kia_breizzze wrote:
diamondsz wrote:
could you imagine staring at baby stuff after a loss thats pretty harsh!


yes, I can and yes, it is.


kia didnt mean to offend you if any offense was taken!
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