Abortion Debate Forum

yupmeagain replied on October 10th, 2006

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

Re: Discovery

Edit for abusive post

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Nataliachick7 replied on October 10th, 2006

Extremely EHEALTHy

Re: Discovery

yupmeagain wrote:

nataliachick7 wrote:

what do you guys think?

i think you are a fucking lying anti choicer.

i should have mentioned you were excluded from my asking peoples thoughts on this.
You are incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

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diamond splinter replied on October 10th, 2006

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

That is so beautiful yet so tear jerking even if the baby isn't actualy crying(which to me it looks like it is) it is still a beautiful clear scan

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yupmeagain replied on October 10th, 2006

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

Re: Discovery

nataliachick7 wrote:

i should have mentioned you were excluded from my asking peoples thoughts on this.

anti choice and anti speech.... Not surprised!

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Tylanas replied on October 10th, 2006

Especially EHEALTHy

"the video documentation "supports the concept that the fetus is capable of the complex motor behaviors that accompany the crying state"."

honestly, this report means nothing to me personally, as I would never abort at this stage unless my life was in danger. And I am pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman.

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paganangel replied on October 10th, 2006

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

eiri wrote:

"the video documentation "supports the concept that the fetus is capable of the complex motor behaviors that accompany the crying state"."

honestly, this report means nothing to me personally, as I would never abort at this stage unless my life was in danger. And I am pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman.

so you are pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman? Then why did you state in another post that you would beg a woman not have an abortion at 36wks??

Pro-abortion? Not pro-choice? Actually I think you are neither...Again...You are pro-choice when it goes by your standards.

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Tylanas replied on October 10th, 2006

Especially EHEALTHy

paganangel wrote:

eiri wrote:

"the video documentation "supports the concept that the fetus is capable of the complex motor behaviors that accompany the crying state"."

honestly, this report means nothing to me personally, as I would never abort at this stage unless my life was in danger. And I am pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman.

so you are pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman? Then why did you state in another post that you would beg a woman not have an abortion at 36wks??

Pro-abortion? Not pro-choice? Actually I think you are neither...Again...You are pro-choice when it goes by your standards.

look, she has the right to do it, but if I knew her personally, I would tell her the truthful facts about what a fetus is capable at that stage of pregnancy.

Shades of grey, idiots. As I have been trying to say the whole time, just calling oneself pro-life or pro-choice doesn't mean you can't have aspects of the other side. If it does, if you're all so close-minded that you can't wrap your microcopic brains around it... Then i'll just call myself an .Independant. I consider myself pro-choice, because I believe in the right to abort. I thought that was all that pro-choice was, at the root. The right to abort.

Everything else is personal icing and decorations, and we all like our cake differently. Just because I like chocolate and you like vanilla doesn't make my choice is not cake. If you believe that vanilla is the only kind of cake in the entire world, then you're stupid. That is how I feel about the pro-choicers who are against me, and the pro-lifers who are against cowboys. Let's pretend pro-life is pie. Again, apple ain't the only kind of pie. What about pumpkin?

So shut the hell up, stop questioning my "side", and debate for once. What "side" i'm on shouldn't matter anyway. My words should matter.

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paganangel replied on October 10th, 2006

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

eiri wrote:

paganangel wrote:

eiri wrote:

"the video documentation "supports the concept that the fetus is capable of the complex motor behaviors that accompany the crying state"."

honestly, this report means nothing to me personally, as I would never abort at this stage unless my life was in danger. And I am pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman.

so you are pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman? Then why did you state in another post that you would beg a woman not have an abortion at 36wks??

Pro-abortion? Not pro-choice? Actually I think you are neither...Again...You are pro-choice when it goes by your standards.

look, she has the right to do it, but if I knew her personally, I would tell her the truthful facts about what a fetus is capable at that stage of pregnancy.

Shades of grey, idiots. As I have been trying to say the whole time, just calling oneself pro-life or pro-choice doesn't mean you can't have aspects of the other side. If it does, if you're all so close-minded that you can't wrap your microcopic brains around it... Then i'll just call myself an .Independant. I consider myself pro-choice, because I believe in the right to abort. I thought that was all that pro-choice was, at the root. The right to abort.

Everything else is personal icing and decorations, and we all like our cake differently. Just because I like chocolate and you like vanilla doesn't make my choice is not cake. If you believe that vanilla is the only kind of cake in the entire world, then you're stupid. That is how I feel about the pro-choicers who are against me, and the pro-lifers who are against cowboys. Let's pretend pro-life is pie. Again, apple ain't the only kind of pie. What about pumpkin?

So shut the hell up, stop questioning my "side", and debate for once. What "side" i'm on shouldn't matter anyway. My words should matter.

i have been debating dear just not to please you I suppose. Your words would matter more if they weren't so contradicting. Also name calling...Tsk, tsk, tsk stooping to someone else's level...I'm sure you know who I am talking about.

Sides do matter in a debate...Generally a debate revolves around an issue that is argued by different **sides**

one more question...If you are so pro-choice on issues then why do you not respect my right to not get married?

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Jules replied on October 11th, 2006

Moderator

Wow, that video is amazing! It really does look as if the baby is crying. Since an unborn child of a certain age can hiccup, kick and suck its thumb, it doesn't surprise me at all that it would be capable of crying of sorts.

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Moo replied on October 11th, 2006

Extremely EHEALTHy

I can't get the link to work Confused

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diamond splinter replied on October 11th, 2006

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

moo wrote:

i can't get the link to work Confused

you have to decapitalise the h

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Tylanas replied on October 11th, 2006

Especially EHEALTHy

paganangel wrote:

eiri wrote:

paganangel wrote:

eiri wrote:

"the video documentation "supports the concept that the fetus is capable of the complex motor behaviors that accompany the crying state"."

honestly, this report means nothing to me personally, as I would never abort at this stage unless my life was in danger. And I am pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman.

so you are pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman? Then why did you state in another post that you would beg a woman not have an abortion at 36wks??

Pro-abortion? Not pro-choice? Actually I think you are neither...Again...You are pro-choice when it goes by your standards.

look, she has the right to do it, but if I knew her personally, I would tell her the truthful facts about what a fetus is capable at that stage of pregnancy.

Shades of grey, idiots. As I have been trying to say the whole time, just calling oneself pro-life or pro-choice doesn't mean you can't have aspects of the other side. If it does, if you're all so close-minded that you can't wrap your microcopic brains around it... Then i'll just call myself an .Independant. I consider myself pro-choice, because I believe in the right to abort. I thought that was all that pro-choice was, at the root. The right to abort.

Everything else is personal icing and decorations, and we all like our cake differently. Just because I like chocolate and you like vanilla doesn't make my choice is not cake. If you believe that vanilla is the only kind of cake in the entire world, then you're stupid. That is how I feel about the pro-choicers who are against me, and the pro-lifers who are against cowboys. Let's pretend pro-life is pie. Again, apple ain't the only kind of pie. What about pumpkin?

So shut the hell up, stop questioning my "side", and debate for once. What "side" i'm on shouldn't matter anyway. My words should matter.

i have been debating dear just not to please you I suppose. Your words would matter more if they weren't so contradicting. Also name calling...Tsk, tsk, tsk stooping to someone else's level...I'm sure you know who I am talking about.

Sides do matter in a debate...Generally a debate revolves around an issue that is argued by different **sides**

one more question...If you are so pro-choice on issues then why do you not respect my right to not get married?

i respect your choice, not you. There's a differene.

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paganangel replied on October 11th, 2006

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

eiri wrote:

paganangel wrote:

eiri wrote:

paganangel wrote:

eiri wrote:

"the video documentation "supports the concept that the fetus is capable of the complex motor behaviors that accompany the crying state"."

honestly, this report means nothing to me personally, as I would never abort at this stage unless my life was in danger. And I am pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman.

so you are pro-abortion for any stage for any other woman? Then why did you state in another post that you would beg a woman not have an abortion at 36wks??

Pro-abortion? Not pro-choice? Actually I think you are neither...Again...You are pro-choice when it goes by your standards.

look, she has the right to do it, but if I knew her personally, I would tell her the truthful facts about what a fetus is capable at that stage of pregnancy.

Shades of grey, idiots. As I have been trying to say the whole time, just calling oneself pro-life or pro-choice doesn't mean you can't have aspects of the other side. If it does, if you're all so close-minded that you can't wrap your microcopic brains around it... Then i'll just call myself an .Independant. I consider myself pro-choice, because I believe in the right to abort. I thought that was all that pro-choice was, at the root. The right to abort.

Everything else is personal icing and decorations, and we all like our cake differently. Just because I like chocolate and you like vanilla doesn't make my choice is not cake. If you believe that vanilla is the only kind of cake in the entire world, then you're stupid. That is how I feel about the pro-choicers who are against me, and the pro-lifers who are against cowboys. Let's pretend pro-life is pie. Again, apple ain't the only kind of pie. What about pumpkin?

So shut the hell up, stop questioning my "side", and debate for once. What "side" i'm on shouldn't matter anyway. My words should matter.

i have been debating dear just not to please you I suppose. Your words would matter more if they weren't so contradicting. Also name calling...Tsk, tsk, tsk stooping to someone else's level...I'm sure you know who I am talking about.

Sides do matter in a debate...Generally a debate revolves around an issue that is argued by different **sides**

one more question...If you are so pro-choice on issues then why do you not respect my right to not get married?

i respect your choice, not you. There's a differene.

if you respected my choice you wouldn't have wrote 10 different posts (or possibly more) telling me how wrong you thought my choice was. Disrespeting me and disrepecting my choices are two totally different things and you have disrespected my choices. I don't need you to respect me. I respect anyone that is *truthuful* when they speak but apparently you are unable keep your story straight.

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Tylanas replied on October 11th, 2006

Especially EHEALTHy

Fine, let me rephrase: I respect the right to make the choice. I don't necessarily think the choice is right, nor do I think you are smart for making it. But you have the right to make it.

That's my bottom line.

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diamond splinter replied on October 11th, 2006

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

eiri wrote:

which choice? The choice to die? Fine, let me rephrase: I respect the right to make the choice. I don't necessarily think the choice is right, nor do I think you are smart for making it. But you have the right to make it.

That's my bottom line.

what where has pagan expressed the choice to die

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Meandering Away replied on October 11th, 2006

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

diamond splinter wrote:

eiri wrote:

which choice? The choice to die? Fine, let me rephrase: I respect the right to make the choice. I don't necessarily think the choice is right, nor do I think you are smart for making it. But you have the right to make it.

That's my bottom line.

what where has pagan expressed the choice to die

i thought that was you, weren't you the one who stated you would not abort even to save your own life or have I got that wrong.

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diamond splinter replied on October 11th, 2006

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

Yes that was me

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Tylanas replied on October 11th, 2006

Especially EHEALTHy

I edited my post. Stop ignoring the message. All you do is focus on the parts of my post that have nothing to do with the debate. So I took it out. Ca you understand now?

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jenn_smithson replied on October 11th, 2006

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

Re: Discovery

nataliachick7 wrote:

someone posted this in preg. I thought it was cool

http://dsc.Discovery.Com/news/brief s/20050919/fetalcrying.Html

what do you guys think?

"babies start crying in the womb as early as 28 weeks, according to video-recorded ultrasound images."

good thing that most abortions take place much, much sooner than this time.

Also, i've always had a certain warm spot in my heart for people who think that reflexes were a sign of sentience.

"jeannine gingras at the carolinas medical center in charlotte, n.C., and colleagues made the discovery after playing tones of about 100 hz and 95 decibels through a speaker placed on the stomach of a pregnant woman.

The response, recorded with an ultrasound scan, showed the fetus startling and turning the head as the sound stimulation was played."

this really is old news. We've known for quite some time that fetus' exhibit reflexes prior to birth which mimic crying, laughing, sucking, kicking, and swimming among others.

"crying in the womb was recorded only after noise stimulation, suggesting that it is elicited only when the fetus is disturbed."

see, it says it all right there. Only after noise is introduced does the fetus reflex/react against it. Fetus' of this development also have reflexes against the introduction of bright lights and preterm labor or preterm contractions.

Abortions at 28 weeks are extremely rare and in the us, can only be obtained for health, life, or fetal deformity reasons.

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