Abortion Debate Forum - Man Surrenders In Case of Fetus' Death

diamond splinter

replied on October 6th, 2006

Active User, very eHealthy

Things can only get better lets hope he gets what he deserves

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Birch

replied on October 6th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

I guess the intention of the mother is the fine line between homicide and legal abortion. I wonder what would come about if she was five weeks instead of five months?

In a related story, here in ohio a man was indicted in the death of his girlfriend, and his unborn child after he shot her. She was 17 weeks. He was charged with m-rder, twice. Will be interested in seeing how this comes out.

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Jules

replied on October 7th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

Not sure of the legal situation here in the .U.K regarding this kind of crime but I can imagine it's something which is tremendously difficult to classify. Should a distinction be made between wanted and unwanted babies? Should the age of the embryo/foetus matter?

If no rights are afforded to the unborn child with regard to its life then surely people could force abortion/miscarriage on a woman with only an assault charge (or something) being made against them? I think that's a very dangerous situation. However, how can abortion be legal if you are giving an unborn child a legal right to life by making it murder if it is killed in an assault? Either someone has a right to life or they don't.

I suppose the law just can't be fair to everybody.

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Cambion

replied on October 7th, 2006

Active User, very eHealthy

I wonder if the girlfriend got pregnant on purpose without telling the guy (sabotaged birth control, etc.). I don't exactly advocate kicking women in the gut when they can have less damaging and probably less painful medical abortions, but in all honesty, if the woman, by chance, did deceive her boyfriend, then maybe she deserved that kick.

I don't get it - they refer to the creature in the woman's womb as a 'fetus' rather than a 'baby' or a 'child', but the charge was ruled as homicide. This just re-opens that can of worms about when a fetus becomes a person, but I won't get into that here. It's terrible this happened, but was the only charge brought against this man homicide? I saw nothing in that story about the man being charged with endangerment, assault, or anything that would suggest he hurt the woman, which he most certainly did. If the only charge that was brought up was homicide, that shows just how little the mother-to-be's life was valued and how much higher the fetus' life is valued.

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Jules

replied on October 7th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

cambion wrote:

i don't exactly advocate kicking women in the gut when they can have less damaging and probably less painful medical abortions, but in all honesty, if the woman, by chance, did deceive her boyfriend, then maybe she deserved that kick.

.I'm so glad that your opinions are not representative of most people. I'm also so glad that you are not in charge of creating any laws.

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yupmeagain

replied on October 7th, 2006

Experienced User

Black man... No wonder the state of tx is going to send him to jail.

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Nataliachick7

replied on October 7th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

yupmeagain wrote:

black man... No wonder the state of tx is going to send him to jail.

even so....
You dont think he deserves jail time?

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yupmeagain

replied on October 7th, 2006

Experienced User

nataliachick7 wrote:

you dont think he deserves jail time?

for assault and battery... Performing an abortion without a license... Domestic violence... Homicide? No. The state is going to exploit the case for it's own agenda, not because they care about a black fetus. Hell, they are probably glad it is dead... One less mouth of the welfare in their minds.

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Tylanas

replied on October 8th, 2006

Especially eHealthy

birch wrote:

i guess the intention of the mother is the fine line between homicide and legal abortion.

yes, I agree with this. It is a case-by case issue, there cannot be one enveloping law. If it is a wanted fetus and the mother is killed and the fetus dies too, then it is double murder. If just the fetus dies, it is single murder. This is only in the case where the child is wanted. If the mother was intending to abort anyway, and dies on the way to the clinic, being hit by a car or something, then there is no way you can accuse the driver of double-homicide.

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Jules

replied on October 13th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

eiri wrote:

birch wrote:

i guess the intention of the mother is the fine line between homicide and legal abortion.

yes, I agree with this. It is a case-by case issue, there cannot be one enveloping law. If it is a wanted fetus and the mother is killed and the fetus dies too, then it is double murder. If just the fetus dies, it is single murder. This is only in the case where the child is wanted. If the mother was intending to abort anyway, and dies on the way to the clinic, being hit by a car or something, then there is no way you can accuse the driver of double-homicide.

if this is the case, doesn't it mean there is a bit of double standards going on? Either an unborn child has a right to life or it doesn't. It shouldn't matter whether the baby is wanted or not, either it is murder to kill it or it isn't. Confused

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Meandering Away

replied on October 13th, 2006

Active User, very eHealthy

purestgreen wrote:

eiri wrote:

birch wrote:

i guess the intention of the mother is the fine line between homicide and legal abortion.

yes, I agree with this. It is a case-by case issue, there cannot be one enveloping law. If it is a wanted fetus and the mother is killed and the fetus dies too, then it is double murder. If just the fetus dies, it is single murder. This is only in the case where the child is wanted. If the mother was intending to abort anyway, and dies on the way to the clinic, being hit by a car or something, then there is no way you can accuse the driver of double-homicide.

if this is the case, doesn't it mean there is a bit of double standards going on? Either an unborn child has a right to life or it doesn't. It shouldn't matter whether the baby is wanted or not, either it is murder to kill it or it isn't. Confused

lets make a new law shall we the taking away of choice,if they do not have the double standard then they cannot argue to keep abortion legal, can they.

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Jules

replied on October 13th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

Hmmm...Perhaps it comes under the same umbrella as the killing of animals. It is acceptable to euthanise your own cat, for whatever reason, but if you did that to someone else's cat then, well it obviously wouldn't be murder but i'm sure you could be prosecuted.

*disclaimer*

the author is not comparing human foetuses to cats. Wink

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Meandering Away

replied on October 13th, 2006

Active User, very eHealthy

purestgreen wrote:

hmmm...Perhaps it comes under the same umbrella as the killing of animals. It is acceptable to euthanise your own cat, for whatever reason, but if you did that to someone else's cat then, well it obviously wouldn't be murder but i'm sure you could be prosecuted.

*disclaimer*

the author is not comparing human foetuses to cats. Wink

they have been compared to worse lol

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diamondsz

replied on October 13th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

cowboys wrote:

purestgreen wrote:

hmmm...Perhaps it comes under the same umbrella as the killing of animals. It is acceptable to euthanise your own cat, for whatever reason, but if you did that to someone else's cat then, well it obviously wouldn't be murder but i'm sure you could be prosecuted.

*disclaimer*

the author is not comparing human foetuses to cats. Wink

they have been compared to worse lol

they have been compared to parasites which they are by a medical dictionary!

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Jules

replied on October 13th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

diamondsz wrote:

cowboys wrote:

purestgreen wrote:

hmmm...Perhaps it comes under the same umbrella as the killing of animals. It is acceptable to euthanise your own cat, for whatever reason, but if you did that to someone else's cat then, well it obviously wouldn't be murder but i'm sure you could be prosecuted.

*disclaimer*

the author is not comparing human foetuses to cats. Wink

they have been compared to worse lol

they have been compared to parasites which they are by a medical dictionary!

i don't think anyone would dispute the parasitic nature of a foetus.

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Meandering Away

replied on October 13th, 2006

Active User, very eHealthy

diamondsz wrote:

cowboys wrote:

purestgreen wrote:

hmmm...Perhaps it comes under the same umbrella as the killing of animals. It is acceptable to euthanise your own cat, for whatever reason, but if you did that to someone else's cat then, well it obviously wouldn't be murder but i'm sure you could be prosecuted.

*disclaimer*

the author is not comparing human foetuses to cats. Wink

they have been compared to worse lol

they have been compared to parasites which they are by a medical dictionary!

and you bought this up why are you trying to cause drama again like last time.

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Tylanas

replied on October 13th, 2006

Especially eHealthy

purestgreen wrote:

eiri wrote:

birch wrote:

i guess the intention of the mother is the fine line between homicide and legal abortion.

yes, I agree with this. It is a case-by case issue, there cannot be one enveloping law. If it is a wanted fetus and the mother is killed and the fetus dies too, then it is double murder. If just the fetus dies, it is single murder. This is only in the case where the child is wanted. If the mother was intending to abort anyway, and dies on the way to the clinic, being hit by a car or something, then there is no way you can accuse the driver of double-homicide.

if this is the case, doesn't it mean there is a bit of double standards going on? Either an unborn child has a right to life or it doesn't. It shouldn't matter whether the baby is wanted or not, either it is murder to kill it or it isn't. Confused

there is a double standard... And it is wanted or unwanted.

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Tylanas

replied on October 13th, 2006

Especially eHealthy

purestgreen wrote:

hmmm...Perhaps it comes under the same umbrella as the killing of animals. It is acceptable to euthanise your own cat, for whatever reason, but if you did that to someone else's cat then, well it obviously wouldn't be murder but i'm sure you could be prosecuted.

*disclaimer*

the author is not comparing human foetuses to cats. Wink

yes, this is a good comparison Smile

and hopefully no one wll be dumb enough to think you are comparing fetuses to cats.

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diamondsz

replied on October 13th, 2006

Extremely eHealthy

cowboys wrote:

diamondsz wrote:

cowboys wrote:

purestgreen wrote:

hmmm...Perhaps it comes under the same umbrella as the killing of animals. It is acceptable to euthanise your own cat, for whatever reason, but if you did that to someone else's cat then, well it obviously wouldn't be murder but i'm sure you could be prosecuted.

*disclaimer*

the author is not comparing human foetuses to cats. Wink

they have been compared to worse lol

they have been compared to parasites which they are by a medical dictionary!

and you bought this up why are you trying to cause drama again like last time.

nope cause I believe in showing people the truth whether we like it or not!

Honestly I know your reasons for being pro-life and and I personally dont mind but I dont appreciate, really dont appreciate recieving pms from ppl telling me that because im pro-choice im anti life. I just believe in life that is already here on this world, as well as I believe in a womans choice.

Anyways before I get slashed for this one the pm wasnt from "cowboys"

i'm a very blunt person and for some reason not all my expressions come across the same as french and vice versa!

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