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the Warring Factions Posted: 09-23-06 05:04am
There seem to be four 'camps' here rather
than two.
There is pro-choice. They support the
right of a woman to make her own decision
as to how to proceed with an unwanted
pregnancy. A pro-choicer will support
the woman's choice, be it to abort or to
go to term.
There is pro-life. They believe
everyone has a right to life, even the
unborn.
Then there are the pro-aborts. They
claim to be pro-choice but actually are
not supportive of a woman's choice, unless
it is to abort.
Finally, there are the pro-foetus group.
Often referred to as 'anti-women'.
They do not agree with abortion under any
circumstances , including rape or
severe medical problems with the baby
and/or mother. They favour the unborn
over the born.
Please correct me if i've got the wrong
end of the proverbial!
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diamond splinter
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 611 Location: ,
Posted: 09-23-06 05:34am
You are soooooo right but expect to be
jumped om
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Jules
Moderator
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Posted: 09-23-06 05:34am
*purest dons battle armour and grits her
teeth*
no seriously, i'm not trying to be
facetious, it's just my observation on
things.
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diamond splinter
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 611 Location: ,
Posted: 09-23-06 05:36am
Forward and onward we descend into battle
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Jules
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Posted: 09-23-06 05:39am
Lol
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Tylanas
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Posted: 09-23-06 09:09am
I happen to agree. Most people ignore
pro-abortion and pro-fetus, and I normally
simply call them the extremists of
pro-choice and pro-life, and i've
aknowledged that fact several times in the
past.
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Jules
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Posted: 09-23-06 09:19am
eiri
wrote:
i've aknowledged that fact
several times in the
past.
.Hee hee .Eiri, well I am obviously a bit
slower off the mark than you!
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diamondsz
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Posted: 09-23-06 12:13pm
So true purest there are 4 groups!!!!!!
Eiri they are extremists, they are the
ones who will not accept anything unless
done there way si in the end they are
.A.N.T.I.R.I.G.H.T.S as well
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Tylanas
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Posted: 09-24-06 01:34am
I believe that both extremists are against
full rights. Pro-aborts don't want any
mother having a child unless she's totally
perfectly capable of caring for it, and
they also want abortions without choice
for all teens, plus, abortions for those
who have too many babies; all of which are
wrong.
It is also wrong to deny a woman an
abortion for any reason. You can't force
her to abort and you can't force her to
keep, that's the final truth.
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Izzy
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 883 Location: Earth
Posted: 09-24-06 17:45pm
"finally, there are the pro-foetus group.
Often referred to as 'anti-women'. They
do not agree with abortion under any
circumstances , including rape or severe
medical problems with the baby and/or
mother. They favour the unborn over the
born. "
well I dont think a child should be killed
just because his mother got raped?
I dont think a child should be killed
just because he or she is disabled or in
some other way servearly handicapped
i dont think a child should be killed
because his mother is ill even sevearly
ill.
And I also extend these beliefs to unborn
children too.
However where things change is this.
I dont believe a born child should be
killed even if his mother is dying
however in the case of a unborn child its
slightly more complex.
If the mother may die due to complications
then I believe she has a choice to make
since one persons life is not worth
another persons life. So I think the
woman has a choice to make between her own
life and the unborn childs since neither
surpasses the other.
Now when the mother makes the choice
either to die herself or kill the unborn
child I believe the doctors have a duty to
try and save both and cay out the womans
wishes only as a last resort.
I am neither pro fetus nor pro woman....
I am pro life!
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diamondsz
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Posted: 09-24-06 20:59pm
Why should a woman have to carry a rape
child she didnt do it to herself and for
that you are anti-woman pardon my beliefs
but a woman never asked to be rape!!!
The bloody nerve
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Cambion
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Posted: 09-24-06 22:17pm
Quote:
i believe that
both extremists are against full rights.
Pro-aborts don't want any mother having a
child unless she's totally perfectly
capable of caring for it, and they also
want abortions without choice for all
teens, plus, abortions for those who have
too many babies; all of which are wrong.
sorry to bash on you eiri, but I really
don't see what the problem is with any of
those scenarios. You're saying that's
there's nothing wrong with women having
babies they can't afford and teens
dropping out of school to raise kids they
probably don't know a damn thing about?
What good are serial breeders doing for
the world by making more people to use up
resources even faster?
I'm not attacking you, eiri...I'm just
wondering your opinion further in this
discussion. I would say I walk the line
between extremist and pro-choice, but i'm
failing to see the problem with getting
women and teens to get rid of children
they can't support. Call me crazy, but I
think quality of life should trump mere
life by itself, and when one doesn't have
money to feed themselves or pay their
bills, or doesn't even have a proper
education, what right do they have to
bring a child into such a lousy life,
except to make the child suffer alongside
them (the schadenfreude must be
delicious)?
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Tylanas
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Posted: 09-25-06 01:56am
cambion
wrote:
Quote:
i believe that
both extremists are against full rights.
Pro-aborts don't want any mother having a
child unless she's totally perfectly
capable of caring for it, and they also
want abortions without choice for all
teens, plus, abortions for those who have
too many babies; all of which are wrong.
sorry to bash on you eiri, but I really
don't see what the problem is with any of
those scenarios. You're saying that's
there's nothing wrong with women having
babies they can't afford and teens
dropping out of school to raise kids they
probably don't know a damn thing about?
What good are serial breeders doing for
the world by making more people to use up
resources even faster?
I'm not attacking you, eiri...I'm just
wondering your opinion further in this
discussion. I would say I walk the line
between extremist and pro-choice, but i'm
failing to see the problem with getting
women and teens to get rid of children
they can't support. Call me crazy, but I
think quality of life should trump mere
life by itself, and when one doesn't have
money to feed themselves or pay their
bills, or doesn't even have a proper
education, what right do they have to
bring a child into such a lousy life,
except to make the child suffer alongside
them (the schadenfreude must be
delicious)?
i'm not bashing on you either; but being
pro-abortion means that teen girl having
no choice
in the matter, and that is very
very wrong. People have the right to
smoke and drink; she has the right to give
brith. Denying that right is heinous.
Teens aborting if they want to is fine;
but forcing an abortion on every unmarried
girl under the age of 18 is just wrong.
forcing
abortion on anyone is wrong to the core.
Forcing birth upon anyone is wrong to the
core. That is true pro-choice.
we females have the right to do what we
want with our bodies; when men can give
birth then they can tell us what to do.
If we want to abort, it is our choice,
final answer.
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diamondsz
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Posted: 09-25-06 10:49am
I think the day men can have kids willbe
the days men will stop having sex lol, if
only they got to suffer lol!
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Tylanas
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Posted: 09-25-06 11:09am
diamondsz
wrote:
i think the day men can have
kids willbe the days men will stop having
sex lol, if only they got to suffer
lol!
or it'll be the day they actually start
caring about birth control as a gender and
not just individuals.
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diamondsz
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Posted: 09-25-06 11:15am
eiri
wrote:
diamondsz
wrote:
i think the day men can have
kids willbe the days men will stop having
sex lol, if only they got to suffer
lol!
or it'll be the day they actually start
caring about birth control as a gender and
not just
individuals.
i bloody well hope so, hubby is getting
fixed because I keep getting preggo off
b/c and its bloody annoying, I got an
email last night thought id share.
I know i'm not going to understand women.
I'll never understand how you can have a
child,
go through pregnancy, live through
contractions,
and still be afraid of a spider.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 09-25-06 11:17am
diamondsz
wrote:
eiri
wrote:
diamondsz
wrote:
i think the day men can have
kids willbe the days men will stop having
sex lol, if only they got to suffer
lol!
or it'll be the day they actually start
caring about birth control as a gender and
not just
individuals.
i bloody well hope so, hubby is getting
fixed because I keep getting preggo off
b/c and its bloody annoying, I got an
email last night thought id share.
I know i'm not going to understand women.
I'll never understand how you can have a
child,
go through pregnancy, live through
contractions,
and still be afraid of a
spider.
ooh, that's cute .X.D
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Cambion
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Posted: 09-25-06 17:24pm
Quote:
i think the day
men can have kids willbe the days men will
stop having sex lol, if only they got to
suffer lol!
i'd bet every last cent in my wallet that
if men could get pregnant, abortions would
be far more common, far more accepted, and
far cheaper. Sadly, our country still
lives by a lot of fundie principles and
men are considered the leaders, the most
valuable, the ones who should be in the
work force, and so on. Heaven forbid the
"useful" creatures be impeded by
pregnancy.
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sandyallen
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Diamondsz Posted: 09-25-06 17:52pm
I like your little e-mail!
I also agree about the rape situatiion!
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Izzy
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Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 883 Location: Earth
Posted: 09-26-06 17:34pm
"why should a woman have to carry a rape
child she didnt do it to herself and for
that you are anti-woman pardon my beliefs
but a woman never asked to be rape!!!"
no you see your looking at it from a pro
woman point of view, now I have already
said in this issue I am neither pro woman
or pro fetus but pro life.
The brilliance of this possition is you
dont actuall have any irrational
obligation to either the fetus or the
woman only to life itself.
So from that point of view I would say you
are perfectly correct in your pro woman
stance that the woman didnt do it to
herself and that she didnt ask to be
raped...As can not be held
accountable....You are 100% correct.
However I can also say that the child
herself did not rape the woman and as such
also can not be held accountable
we can not punish the woman for being
raped and we can not punish a child for
being concieved due to rape for neither
have commited a crime, therefore the only
person left who we can punish is the
rapist.
So if we can not punish either the woman
or the fetus. But what happens if the
woman feels like the child is a punishment
for being raped which could happen in
unstabble situations.
Well if that happens we are left in a damn
awful possition arnt we...Either this
woman has to suffer excruciating emotional
torture for 9 months or kill an innocent
child - neither option is going to be
suitable solution.... So we must
therefore choose an option that is
preferable.
So what we are left with is
1. Suffering of mother for 9 months (she
will suffer for rest of life due to rape
but that is due to the rape not the
resulting pregnancy)
or
2. The extermination of a whole life
except for the short few weeks after the
conception.
Now for those who advocate the death of
the child, I simply do not see how 9
months sufferring (not punishment despite
the emotional feelings of the mother its
not punishment) = the extermination of a
childs whole life.
If they say that the woman will suffer for
the rest of her life, she will suffer
anyway despite the pregnancy.
If they say well the woman feels the
emotional suffering while the child is
unable to feel if that is the case then
surely this child will not suffer the same
emotional pain as the woman when it is
able to feel. Therefore who is it better
to kill the child who will suffer no or
little emotional pain or the woman who
will live with great emotional pain for
the rest of her life if she carries her
child to term or not.
Now I do not say that either should be
killed, I say that the child is innocent
and can not be put to death for a crime
she didnt commit.
I also do not believe a woman in emotional
pain should be left unaided but everything
should be done to help her at least deal
with the pain if not in some way help ease
the pain.
But at least a painful life is a life and
a life that should not be killed because
of the pain
killing the child through abortion is
eding the life of a child who is in no
pain at all
