Dear kboutah,

there are natural therapies you can try.
The free book from depression to glorious health (completely free download at www.Geocities.Com/glorioushealth ) has a diet and lifestyle protocol you can experiment with.
More important this book removes much of the mystery associated with depression.

Below is a short exerpt from this book.
I hope you find this helpful and I wish you the best of luck in your journey to better health.

Kindest regards,
andrew cavanagh


depression and eicosanoids
eicosanoids are your body’s “master hormones”. They indirectly control nearly every function of your body. Depression is linked to a “bad” eicosanoid called prostaglandin e2 (pge2).
A study in 1983 found that levels of the bad eicosanoid (pge2) were 2-3 times higher in patients with depression than in normal controls. Subsequent studies have also found elevated levels of pge2 in the bodies of patients suffering from depression.
This is alarming news because overproduction of the “bad” eicosanoid pge2 not only causes mood problems like depression. Pge2 also causes inflammation, suppresses your immune system, causes blood clotting and a host of other potentially deadly effects.
These can lead to serious disease in the following ways:

effects of the “bad” eicosanoid pge2:
 pge2 reduces the release and uptake of neurotransmitters in your brain like serotonin which can lead to depression.
 pge2 causes your blood to clot which can lead to heart attacks or strokes.
 pge2 causes your blood vessels to contract (vasoconstriction) which can lead to high blood pressure.
 pge2 depresses your immune system which can lead to cancer.
 pge2 stimulates pain and fever which can lead to allergies, headaches, arthritis and chronic pain.
 pge2 causes inflammation in your body and your brain which could lead to alzheimer’s disease and multiple sclerosis (ms).

So depression is often an early warning that more serious conditions like heart disease, stroke and cancer are developing. You simply can’t afford to take depression lightly. You must change your diet and lifestyle now to reverse the effects of depression and the other more serious effects of your body’s overproduction of “bad” eicosanoids like pge2.

The good news, good eicosanoid pge1
the good news is that you can control your body’s production of eicosanoids with diet and lifestyle. And when you do this often not only will your symptoms of depression abate or disappear many other long term health problems could also be relieved.
Like most hormones in your body the bad eicosanoid pge2 has an opposing hormone to help keep your body’s functions in balance.Pge2’s opposing hormone is prostaglandin e1 (pge1).

The good eicosanoid pge1 has many wonderfully beneficial effects:
 pge1 increases the release and uptake of neurotransmitters in your brain like serotonin increasing feelings of wellbeing and calmness.
 pge1 stops your blood from clumping, reducing the chance of heart disease and strokes.
 pge1 helps your blood vessels to relax reducing your blood pressure and increasing circulation.
 pge1 controls your immune system reducing the risk of cancer.
 pge1 reduces pain often leading to relief from headaches, arthritis and chronic pain.
 pge1 reduces inflammation in your body and your brain reducing the chance of diseases like ms and alzheimer’s.

To understand how to switch the production of eicosanoids in your body from bad to good you first need to understand three major hormonal systems in your body: eicosanoids, insulin and cortisol.

1.Eicosanoids are your body’s “master” hormones indirectly controlling nearly every function in your body including feelings of wellbeing and indirectly feelings of depression.
You need to increase your body’s production of “good” eicosanoids to stimulate feelings of wellbeing and reduce or eliminate feelings of depression.

2. Insulin is your body’s “sugar” hormone, released in response to blood glucose (blood sugar).
Excess insulin production in your body can be caused by eating a diet too high in carbohydrates. Especially carbohydrates which convert too quickly to blood glucose.
Excess insulin can stop the production of good eicosanoids and stimulate the production of bad eicosanoids.
This can lead to depression.
Excess insulin production also leads to the release of the “stress” hormone cortisol.

3. Cortisol, the “stress” hormone is released when you are under physical or emotional stress.
Cortisol can block the production of “good” eicosanoids leading to feelings of poor health and depression.
Also, long term exposure to excess cortisol can kill your brain cells, leading to impaired brain function.

So to reduce the symptoms of depression or to eliminate it altogether you need to do three things:
1. Increase your body’s production of good eicosanoids (the “master” hormones).
2. Control your body’s production of insulin (the “sugar” hormone).
3. Reduce your body’s production of cortisol (the “stress” hormone).

In this book you’ll learn how to do all that in these six steps. The six steps from depression to glorious health are:
1. Following a good diet.
Which increases your body’s production of “good” eicosanoids, controls your body’s insulin production and reduces the release of cortisol.
2. Drinking enough water.
Which allows all your body’s systems to function efficiently.
3. Exercising daily.
Which increases your insulin sensitivity (helping to control your body’s insulin production) and reduces your cortisol levels.
4. Practicing advanced hygiene.
Which helps to increase your body’s production of “good” eicosanoids and helps to reduce your body’s cortisol levels.
5. Improving the quality and quantity of your sleep.
Which helps to increase your body’s production of “good” eicosanoids and reduce your body’s cortisol levels.
6. Building good emotional health.
Which helps reduce your body’s cortisol levels.

Does going to a psychiatrist help depression? Or they useless in that area.

hi kb and fuba-
the answer for me was cognitive behavioral therapy (cbt). I was on meds and in and out of therapy for many years before I found cbt and it cured me and got me off meds in a remarkably short period of time. Cbt is not like other talk therapy. A good cbt therapist knows they cannot change what's already happened to you but they can help you change how you deal with what happens in your life from here on out. It's all about using the tools to learn to think more clearly and accurately about things and once you do your anxiety, panic and depression will miraculously begin to lift before your eyes. My favorite starter book on cbt is "been there, done that? Do this! By sam obitz based on what I have seen with the people I know who used cbt the more dedicated you are to the tools the faster and deeper the recovery regardless of how bad their anxiety was when they got started. Like anything in life the more you put in the more you get out of cbt. That's why I think group settings can be especially effective with cbt because you can see the people that are working the hardest to get well making the most progress and it becomes infectious.

Hope this is helpful

Cognitive therapy has good scientific basis for the treatment of depression.
Combining cbt with positive changes in diet and lifestyle can be even more effective.
If you would like to try cognitive therapy and you can't afford a therapist (a therapist is obviously the best route as qt3 suggests) you could read the book feeling good by dr david burns or the feeling good handbook by the same author.
Both have been shown to help relieve depression.

Kindest regards,
andrew

Well, I really don't have depression problems. I'm mainly on here to learn outside of school. Thanks for the info.

hey-
you're welcome and i'm impressed you must be a better student than I ever was

q

Hi andrew-

the burns book is my other favorite on cbt but I usually wait to recommend it to people until after they get going as it tends to overwhelm many as a first or introductory book. The obitz book is short with really short chapters so it's easy for someone suffering to get through and then when they are having some success with it I tell them to get burns as it is a great and more indepth resource.

Q

Thank you for the reference to the book.
I musn't have read your post carefully the first time around but somehow I missed it.
You're so right about burns being a daunting book.
I will get hold of the book you suggest.

Kindest regards,
andrew cavanagh

Hi,

renee here. Is cbt good for stubborn people? I was talking about it with my shrink yesterday. The problem with me is that, I think the way I think, I feel the way I feel and that's it, that's all. Do you understand what I mean?


Renee

hi renee-
nice to meet you yes and no.... It's kind of a chicken and egg situation. You have to put in effort to help yourself and do the exercises in order for cbt to work for you. It is very effective in changing the thought patterns that cause stubborness, but the problem is that if you are too stubborn to learn and practice the exercises they obviously can't help you.
Every feeling we have comes from how we think about things, that's why two people can have the same experience and feel completely opposite about it. An example would be coming in second place in a competition. You may be bummed that you lost to somebody and I may be thrilled that I beat all but one person.
Cbt teaches you how to think accurately as usually behind stubborness there are some hidden inaccurate thoughts that are causing you to be stubborn and if you find them and counter them you can get over the stubborness. I hope this helps, but feel free to ask me more questions if this isn't making any sense to you.
With cbt you have to want to get better and be willing to expend some effort to help yourself :p

q

you're welcome andrew. I think you'll like the book and btw, I agree about combining cbt with a healthylifestyle and exercise as you suggest for maximim benefit.

Take care!

Q

Q,

thank you for your reply. I do want to get better (i was diagnosed with major depression in nov 2003), I take the max dosage of effexor in the evening and I take wellbutrin in the morning. My doc is still trying to regulate the wellbutrin every two weeks.

I still harbour a lot of anxiety and bitterness toward the people, situations that assisted me in becoming depressed, not to mention a family pre-disposition on my paternal side. I find it hard to explain myself. I am a very black -- white individual -- not a lot of room, if any for grey.

Perhaps this could be an example, my former doc used to try to get me to not think that I was such a health forum (just one of my many charms). He said, if you don't like it, change it. Well, I thought, no, I don't let many people "in". If you don't like the fact that I am a health forum, stay away, if you can tolerate that I am a health forum, c'mon down! But then i'll change. Once i've let you "in", I will change and give you the shirt off my back, bend-over backwards -- whatever. Am I making any sense?

Any more advice?? I know -- go to sleep.

Hope to hear from you soon and thanks again.

Renee

Renee,

i'm sure qt3 will come up with some wonderful suggestions.

What you've said in this post makes perfect sense.

I'd just like to say you're perfect just the way you are.


Your feelings and actions towards others simply reflect the way you feel and act towards yourself.

So you start there learning to completely accept and love yourself.

Be kind to yourself.


Every day is a perfect lesson.

And you couldn't have this perfect lesson unless you'd done all the things that led up to today.

So everything you've done in the past is also perfect.

And tomorrow will be a perfect lesson too.

So everything you do today is also perfect.


Realising this can release you from self judgement and judgement of others.


You really are a perfect special person filled with perfect love.


I hope you can find that love inside yourself.


Kindest regards,
andrew cavanagh

Hi andrew glorious health!!

Thank you. I don't know quite what to say. I've never been told I am perfect. What makes you think that? I am still depressed, still on anit-depressants and anti-anxiety medication (if required). Right now, I have a lot of anger and bitterness built up inside of me (ala canadian military -- probably too much info). I am very defensive. My poor husband, I have to stop and think before I talk to him because I will chew his head off. The only ones who get a lot of love from me in this house are my three german shephers dogs. (i'm not a people person.)

if I was perfect, I wouldn't require the assistance of all of these medications. I'm 42 years old and for all of those years, I have been taught to "soldier on", if you know what I mean. I so hope i'm not rambling. I even asked the doc (psychiatrist) about electric shock therapy or cutting away the parts of my brain that make me think and feel the way I do. I'm told that those are not options at this time!!!!!!!!

I want this to go away. I want to go out again. I want to smile and laugh again. I know, it's mind over matter and I used to be able to do that; however, I seem to have lost that ability.

Renee (babble, babble, babble)

Qt3 may not necessarily agree with me but at the core of congnitive therapy is the premise that negative emotions are the result of expecting reality to be different to what it is.


To put it another way:
you probably get angry at your husband because he isn't what you think he should be. The thinking here is flawed because your husband is who he is right now. How could he be anything else. This is reality. The relief from that anger lies not in changing your husband but in learning to accept your husband as he is right now. In other words accept and embrace reality.


The principal is the same with yourself.

You judge yourself because you're on medication, you're filled with bitterness etc.

You are who you are.

You are the way you are.

That is reality.

The relief from that judgement is to love and accept yourself just the way you are.

To love and embrace reality.

Ironically this significantly increases your chances of changing your own behaviour and health because you learn to accept and work with yourself instead of the constant internal battle you're now waging.


On the subject of your perfection.

You're perfect because at the core of your being, is perfect love.


How deep is that love inside you?


Remember a time when you were deeply in love.

Remember those intense feelings of longing, that wonderful feeling of wholeness.


Now remember the deep, protective love you’ve felt for a child, a pet or someone special in your care. Recall that nurturing, protective love.


Then think of the deep abiding love you feel for a very close loved one.

Feel that deep, soft, consistent, unrelenting love.


Now imagine every person in the world and realise that each of these people is filled just as you are with these varied and wonderful forms of love.


Now multiply all that wonderful, glorious, precious love in you and from you and all that wonderful, glorious, precious love in everyone and from everyone and you catch the tiniest glimpse of the smallest speck of the love that is within your spirit – the love that is within you.


That love, is not just within you. It is also within everyone and everything.


It is, in a very real sense, the essense of who you are.

And it is perfect.



Now a practical suggestion.

I have worked with many people suffering from depression.

Diet is very effective at long term lasting relief.




But by the far the fastest and most effective technique I know of to relieve depression is eft (emotional freedom technique).

You can learn to do it yourself in a few minutes and you can see positive benefits in mood etc also within a few minutes.


Just a few days ago I interviewed a fully qualified and highly respected australian psychologist (steve wells) who uses eft as the main therapy in his successful psychology practice.

Many health professionals use this method and its use is growing rapidly.


The reason i'm saying this is because it may seem a little strange and it's quite normal to be sceptical.

But try it and you'll be amazed!

Eft also makes other therapies like cognitive therapy more effective because eft rapidly removes or relieves negative emotions allowing you to think more rationally.


The technique basically involves tapping various acupressure points with your index and middle finger while thinking about your negative emotions or experiences. I told you it would sound strange.

If you go to this site it will show you the basic sequence of points to tap.

Getting it right 100% is not necessary to begin with.

Just do the best you can.



i hope something here helps you.


Kindest regards,
andrew cavanagh

hi renee,
it's andrew's your turn to disagree with me nobody is perfect! Perfection is an illusion that only serves to make us miserable because it is unattainable. Try to be perfect and you'll feel like a failure (i'm speaking from years of experience trying this myself), but if you try to be average two things will happen... 1) you will find out that are better than average and 2) you will relax and feel happier. Andrew feel free to correct me here if i'm wrong, but I think he was trying to say you renee are a loveable and worthwhile person and I am certain this is true :d
the person you describe in your note above sounds like someone who has been poorly treated and is a true diamond in the rough waiting to come out and share how wonderful you are but you have been beat down too many times and have withdrawn to protect your loveable self for the time being which is perfectly understandable.
You said you don't see grey... Cbt is based on countering a series of thinking errors that people that are troubled tend to make and one of the most common ones is one called extreme thinking which is where you see everything as being completely good or completely bad no grey exists. In reality very few things are all good or all bad almost all fall somewhere in the middle. The exercises in cbt teach you to see things more clearly and accurately. When we are down or anxious we tend to view things less clearly and that is what causes us to be so upset. We tend to jump to conclusions that are not necessarily accurate and make mountains out of molehills. I hope this is making some sense to you?
You sound a lot like me before I found cbt. I was the type who would give you shirt off my back etc, but I was so untrusting of people and had been taken advantage of so many times it was nearly impossible to get me to let you in. I even inquired about electro shock therapy and can't tell you how glad I never got it and hope you never do either but I certainly understand the desperation you are feeling as I was once there too and it is not fun.
All of our feelings come from our thoughts. So if we are thinking negatively and inaccurately we will feel miserable. For example if you think losing is fun you will be miserable when you win. It's not winning that makes you miserable it's your inaccurate thoughts that are and that is what is happening to most anxious and depressed people and it is easier than you think to change but does take some work and dedication to the exercises. No one no matter how cruel they are to you can make you feel bad. It's only when you choose to believe what they are saying that you get upset. Sorry I have run on so long but I really hope this is helpful as I am certain you are a wonderful person who just needs some adjustments to the way you process things and then you can more readily share your gifts with others :d

take care and keep in touch.

Q

[quote="caesarsmama"]i want this to go away. I want to go out again. I want to smile and laugh again. I know, it's mind over matter and I used to be able to do that; however, I seem to have lost that ability.
Renee quote]

you will smile and laugh again renee :p

q

Qt3,

i was talking about perfection in a spiritual sense.

Since only a very small percentage of people actually understand what I mean a better way of putting it would be that you are complete just the way you are.


If you completely accept everything and everyone including yourself just the way they are you are accepting reality.

Your life is also complete and perfect.


I think the whole point is that your are already perfect.

There is no need to attain perfection, you are already there.

All you need to do is see it.

You are complete, loveable and whole just the way you are.


Cognitive therapy is effective.

It helps you reprocess your thoughts.

If you combine cbt with eft (emotional freedom technique) you can relieve the negative emotions that are attached to your thoughts.

This makes cognitive therapy very powerful indeed.


I have seen patients with serious depression alter their moods dramatically in less than an hour with eft.

The depression is usually gone completely within three weeks.

No other therapy I know of works this quickly.


Just last week I interviewed steve wells, a fully qualified psychologist who uses eft as his main therapy in his successful practice. He is very highly regarded in his field (published in a peer reviewed psychology journal).


From his psychology clinic in inglewood, western australia, wells said: “if you told me ten years ago i’d be teaching people to tap on meridian points to treat psychological problems I would have said you’re crazy. It really does sound like new age mumbo jumbo. But now eft is rapidly gaining a wealth of scientific and especially clinical evidence.
“perhaps the greatest vindication for eft is the growing list of highly credentialed psychologists, counselors and medical professionals employing eft with their patients. You simply wouldn’t keep using something that seems so strange unless it worked.”

you can learn more about eft from www.Emofree.Com
there is plenty of free information there and a free manual.



And yes you will smile and laugh again.


Kindest regards,

Dear fubajuba, nine years ago my husband and I had an auto accident. We were not hurt, but I woke up in the middle of the night because I kept seeing the helmet on a person hit our car. I developed posttramatic stress disorder. I went to a shrink and a therapist for a year. I ended up in the hospital so they could regulate my medication, and I have never felt better. Going to therapy does help and going to group is better because you see people who are just like you and some that are worse. Good luck, and god bless.