About a year ago I started back on
anti-depressants. I have gone from paxil
to wellbutrin and now I am on effexor.
Nothing seems to help. In the past I had
been on prozac and zoloft. What can I
try. I feel like caca. I can't handle
anything. My temper is horrible. I am
worried, anxious, nervous, depressed all
the time? Does anyone have any
suggestions?
|
AndrewGloriousHealth
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 28 Location: Australia
Natural Therapies For Depression. Posted: 02-21-04 04:47am
Dear kboutah,
there are natural therapies you can try.
The free book from depression to glorious
health (completely free download at www.Geocities.Com/glorious
health ) has a diet and lifestyle
protocol you can experiment with.
More important this book removes much of
the mystery associated with depression.
Below is a short exerpt from this book.
I hope you find this helpful and I wish
you the best of luck in your journey to
better health.
Kindest regards,
andrew cavanagh
depression and eicosanoids
eicosanoids are your body’s
“master hormones”. They
indirectly control nearly every function
of your body. Depression is linked to a
“bad” eicosanoid called
prostaglandin e2 (pge2).
A study in 1983 found that levels of the
bad eicosanoid (pge2) were 2-3 times
higher in patients with depression than in
normal controls. Subsequent studies have
also found elevated levels of pge2 in the
bodies of patients suffering from
depression.
This is alarming news because
overproduction of the “bad”
eicosanoid pge2 not only causes mood
problems like depression. Pge2 also
causes inflammation, suppresses your
immune system, causes blood clotting and a
host of other potentially deadly
effects.
These can lead to serious disease in the
following ways:
effects of the “bad”
eicosanoid pge2:
pge2 reduces the release and
uptake of neurotransmitters in your brain
like serotonin which can lead to
depression.
pge2 causes your blood to clot
which can lead to heart attacks or
strokes.
pge2 causes your blood vessels to
contract (vasoconstriction) which can lead
to high blood pressure.
pge2 depresses your immune system
which can lead to cancer.
pge2 stimulates pain and fever
which can lead to allergies, headaches,
arthritis and chronic pain.
pge2 causes inflammation in your
body and your brain which could lead to
alzheimer’s disease and multiple
sclerosis (ms).
So depression is often an early warning
that more serious conditions like heart
disease, stroke and cancer are developing.
You simply can’t afford to take
depression lightly. You must change your
diet and lifestyle now to reverse the
effects of depression and the other more
serious effects of your body’s
overproduction of “bad”
eicosanoids like pge2.
The good news, good eicosanoid pge1
the good news is that you can control your
body’s production of eicosanoids
with diet and lifestyle. And when you do
this often not only will your symptoms of
depression abate or disappear many other
long term health problems could also be
relieved.
Like most hormones in your body the bad
eicosanoid pge2 has an opposing hormone to
help keep your body’s functions in
balance.Pge2’s opposing hormone is
prostaglandin e1 (pge1).
The good eicosanoid pge1 has many
wonderfully beneficial effects:
pge1 increases the release and
uptake of neurotransmitters in your brain
like serotonin increasing feelings of
wellbeing and calmness.
pge1 stops your blood from
clumping, reducing the chance of heart
disease and strokes.
pge1 helps your blood vessels to
relax reducing your blood pressure and
increasing circulation.
pge1 controls your immune system
reducing the risk of cancer.
pge1 reduces pain often leading
to relief from headaches, arthritis and
chronic pain.
pge1 reduces inflammation in your
body and your brain reducing the chance of
diseases like ms and alzheimer’s.
To understand how to switch the production
of eicosanoids in your body from bad to
good you first need to understand three
major hormonal systems in your body:
eicosanoids, insulin and cortisol.
1.Eicosanoids are your body’s
“master” hormones indirectly
controlling nearly every function in your
body including feelings of wellbeing and
indirectly feelings of depression.
You need to increase your body’s
production of “good”
eicosanoids to stimulate feelings of
wellbeing and reduce or eliminate feelings
of depression.
2. Insulin is your body’s
“sugar” hormone, released in
response to blood glucose (blood sugar).
Excess insulin production in your body can
be caused by eating a diet too high in
carbohydrates. Especially carbohydrates
which convert too quickly to blood
glucose.
Excess insulin can stop the production of
good eicosanoids and stimulate the
production of bad eicosanoids.
This can lead to depression.
Excess insulin production also leads to
the release of the “stress”
hormone cortisol.
3. Cortisol, the “stress”
hormone is released when you are under
physical or emotional stress.
Cortisol can block the production of
“good” eicosanoids leading to
feelings of poor health and depression.
Also, long term exposure to excess
cortisol can kill your brain cells,
leading to impaired brain function.
So to reduce the symptoms of depression or
to eliminate it altogether you need to do
three things:
1. Increase your body’s production
of good eicosanoids (the
“master” hormones).
2. Control your body’s
production of insulin (the
“sugar” hormone).
3. Reduce your body’s production
of cortisol (the “stress”
hormone).
In this book you’ll learn how to do
all that in these six steps. The six
steps from depression to glorious health
are:
1. Following a good diet.
Which increases your body’s
production of “good”
eicosanoids, controls your body’s
insulin production and reduces the release
of cortisol.
2. Drinking enough water.
Which allows all your body’s systems
to function efficiently.
3. Exercising daily.
Which increases your insulin sensitivity
(helping to control your body’s
insulin production) and reduces your
cortisol levels.
4. Practicing advanced hygiene.
Which helps to increase your body’s
production of “good”
eicosanoids and helps to reduce your
body’s cortisol levels.
5. Improving the quality and quantity of
your sleep.
Which helps to increase your body’s
production of “good”
eicosanoids and reduce your body’s
cortisol levels.
6. Building good emotional health.
Which helps reduce your body’s
cortisol levels.
|
Fubajuba
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 29
Posted: 02-22-04 07:16am
Does going to a psychiatrist help
depression? Or they useless in that area.
|
qt3
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 264
Posted: 02-22-04 15:38pm
fubajuba
wrote:
does going to a psychiatrist
help depression? Or they useless in that
area.
hi kb and fuba-
the answer for me was cognitive behavioral
therapy (cbt). I was on meds and in and
out of therapy for many years before I
found cbt and it cured me and got me off
meds in a remarkably short period of time.
Cbt is not like other talk therapy. A
good cbt therapist knows they cannot
change what's already happened to you but
they can help you change how you deal with
what happens in your life from here on
out. It's all about using the tools to
learn to think more clearly and accurately
about things and once you do your anxiety,
panic and depression will miraculously
begin to lift before your eyes. My
favorite starter book on cbt is "been
there, done that? Do this! By sam obitz
(www.Tao3.Com) based on what I have seen
with the people I know who used cbt the
more dedicated you are to the tools the
faster and deeper the recovery regardless
of how bad their anxiety was when they got
started. Like anything in life the more
you put in the more you get out of cbt.
That's why I think group settings can be
especially effective with cbt because you
can see the people that are working the
hardest to get well making the most
progress and it becomes infectious.
Hope this is helpful
q
|
AndrewGloriousHealth
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 28 Location: Australia
Cognitive Therapy Posted: 02-22-04 20:55pm
Cognitive therapy has good scientific
basis for the treatment of depression.
Combining cbt with positive changes in
diet and lifestyle can be even more
effective.
If you would like to try cognitive therapy
and you can't afford a therapist (a
therapist is obviously the best route as
qt3 suggests) you could read the book
feeling good by dr david burns or the
feeling good handbook by the same
author.
Both have been shown to help relieve
depression.
Kindest regards,
andrew
|
Fubajuba
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 29
Posted: 02-22-04 22:54pm
Well, I really don't have depression
problems. I'm mainly on here to learn
outside of school. Thanks for the info.
|
qt3
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 264
Posted: 02-25-04 01:15am
fubajuba
wrote:
well, I really don't have
depression problems. I'm mainly on here
to learn outside of school. Thanks for
the info.
hey-
you're welcome and i'm impressed you must
be a better student than I ever was
q
|
qt3
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 264
Posted: 02-25-04 01:18am
Hi andrew-
the burns book is my other favorite on cbt
but I usually wait to recommend it to
people until after they get going as it
tends to overwhelm many as a first or
introductory book. The obitz book is
short with really short chapters so it's
easy for someone suffering to get through
and then when they are having some success
with it I tell them to get burns as it is
a great and more indepth resource.
Q
|
AndrewGloriousHealth
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 28 Location: Australia
Thank You For the Reference Posted: 02-25-04 06:42am
Thank you for the reference to the book.
I musn't have read your post carefully the
first time around but somehow I missed
it.
You're so right about burns being a
daunting book.
I will get hold of the book you suggest.
Kindest regards,
andrew cavanagh
|
caesarsmama
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 35 Location: Ontario, Canada
Qt3 Posted: 02-25-04 07:39am
Hi,
renee here. Is cbt good for stubborn
people? I was talking about it with my
shrink yesterday. The problem with me is
that, I think the way I think, I feel the
way I feel and that's it, that's all. Do
you understand what I mean?
Renee
|
qt3
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 264
Re: Qt3 Posted: 02-26-04 20:40pm
caesarsmama
wrote:
hi,
renee here. Is cbt good for stubborn
people? I was talking about it with my
shrink yesterday. The problem with me
is that, I think the way I think, I feel
the way I feel and that's it, that's all.
Do you understand what I mean?
Renee
hi renee-
nice to meet you yes and no....
It's kind of a chicken and egg situation.
You have to put in effort to help yourself
and do the exercises in order for cbt to
work for you. It is very effective in
changing the thought patterns that cause
stubborness, but the problem is that if
you are too stubborn to learn and practice
the exercises they obviously can't help
you.
Every feeling we have comes from how we
think about things, that's why two people
can have the same experience and feel
completely opposite about it. An example
would be coming in second place in a
competition. You may be bummed that you
lost to somebody and I may be thrilled
that I beat all but one person.
Cbt teaches you how to think accurately as
usually behind stubborness there are some
hidden inaccurate thoughts that are
causing you to be stubborn and if you find
them and counter them you can get over the
stubborness. I hope this helps, but feel
free to ask me more questions if this
isn't making any sense to you.
With cbt you have to want to get better
and be willing to expend some effort to
help yourself :p
q
|
qt3
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 264
Re: Thank You For the Reference Posted: 02-26-04 20:41pm
andrewglorioushealth
wrote:
thank you for the reference
to the book.
I musn't have read your post carefully the
first time around but somehow I missed
it.
You're so right about burns being a
daunting book.
I will get hold of the book you suggest.
Kindest regards,
andrew
cavanagh
you're welcome andrew. I think you'll
like the book and btw, I agree about
combining cbt with a healthylifestyle and
exercise as you suggest for maximim
benefit.
Take care!
Q
|
caesarsmama
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 35 Location: Ontario, Canada
Cbt Posted: 02-27-04 01:09am
Q,
thank you for your reply. I do want to
get better (i was diagnosed with major
depression in nov 2003), I take the max
dosage of effexor in the evening and I
take wellbutrin in the morning. My doc
is still trying to regulate the wellbutrin
every two weeks.
I still harbour a lot of anxiety and
bitterness toward the people, situations
that assisted me in becoming depressed,
not to mention a family pre-disposition on
my paternal side. I find it hard to
explain myself. I am a very black --
white individual -- not a lot of room, if
any for grey.
Perhaps this could be an example, my
former doc used to try to get me to not
think that I was such a health forum (just
one of my many charms). He said, if you
don't like it, change it. Well, I
thought, no, I don't let many people "in".
If you don't like the fact that I am a
health forum, stay away, if you can
tolerate that I am a health forum, c'mon
down! But then i'll change. Once i've
let you "in", I will change and give you
the shirt off my back, bend-over backwards
-- whatever. Am I making any sense?
Any more advice?? I know -- go to
sleep.
Hope to hear from you soon and thanks
again.
Renee
|
AndrewGloriousHealth
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 28 Location: Australia
Posted: 02-27-04 01:23am
Renee,
i'm sure qt3 will come up with some
wonderful suggestions.
What you've said in this post makes
perfect sense.
I'd just like to say you're perfect just
the way you are.
Your feelings and actions towards others
simply reflect the way you feel and act
towards yourself.
So you start there learning to completely
accept and love yourself.
Be kind to yourself.
Every day is a perfect lesson.
And you couldn't have this perfect lesson
unless you'd done all the things that led
up to today.
So everything you've done in the past is
also perfect.
And tomorrow will be a perfect lesson
too.
So everything you do today is also
perfect.
Realising this can release you from self
judgement and judgement of others.
You really are a perfect special person
filled with perfect love.
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 35 Location: Ontario, Canada
Wow! Posted: 02-27-04 01:39am
Hi andrew glorious health!!
Thank you. I don't know quite what to
say. I've never been told I am perfect.
What makes you think that? I am still
depressed, still on anit-depressants and
anti-anxiety medication (if required).
Right now, I have a lot of anger and
bitterness built up inside of me (ala
canadian military -- probably too much
info). I am very defensive. My poor
husband, I have to stop and think before I
talk to him because I will chew his head
off. The only ones who get a lot of love
from me in this house are my three german
shephers dogs. (i'm not a people
person.)
if I was perfect, I wouldn't require the
assistance of all of these medications.
I'm 42 years old and for all of those
years, I have been taught to "soldier on",
if you know what I mean. I so hope i'm
not rambling. I even asked the doc
(psychiatrist) about electric shock
therapy or cutting away the parts of my
brain that make me think and feel the way
I do. I'm told that those are not
options at this time!!!!!!!!
I want this to go away. I want to go out
again. I want to smile and laugh again.
I know, it's mind over matter and I used
to be able to do that; however, I seem to
have lost that ability.
Renee (babble, babble, babble)
|
AndrewGloriousHealth
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 28 Location: Australia
Posted: 02-27-04 02:11am
Qt3 may not necessarily agree with me but
at the core of congnitive therapy is the
premise that negative emotions are the
result of expecting reality to be
different to what it is.
To put it another way:
you probably get angry at your husband
because he isn't what you think he should
be. The thinking here is flawed because
your husband is who he is right now. How
could he be anything else. This is
reality. The relief from that anger lies
not in changing your husband but in
learning to accept your husband as he is
right now. In other words accept and
embrace reality.
The principal is the same with yourself.
You judge yourself because you're on
medication, you're filled with bitterness
etc.
You are who you are.
You are the way you are.
That is reality.
The relief from that judgement is to love
and accept yourself just the way you
are.
To love and embrace reality.
Ironically this significantly increases
your chances of changing your own
behaviour and health because you learn to
accept and work with yourself instead of
the constant internal battle you're now
waging.
On the subject of your perfection.
You're perfect because at the core of your
being, is perfect love.
How deep is that love inside you?
Remember a time when you were deeply in
love.
Remember those intense feelings of
longing, that wonderful feeling of
wholeness.
Now remember the deep, protective love
you’ve felt for a child, a pet or
someone special in your care. Recall
that nurturing, protective love.
Then think of the deep abiding love you
feel for a very close loved one.
Feel that deep, soft, consistent,
unrelenting love.
Now imagine every person in the world and
realise that each of these people is
filled just as you are with these varied
and wonderful forms of love.
Now multiply all that wonderful, glorious,
precious love in you and from you and all
that wonderful, glorious, precious love in
everyone and from everyone and you catch
the tiniest glimpse of the smallest speck
of the love that is within your spirit
– the love that is within you.
That love, is not just within you. It is
also within everyone and everything.
It is, in a very real sense, the essense
of who you are.
And it is perfect.
Now a practical suggestion.
I have worked with many people suffering
from depression.
Diet is very effective at long term
lasting relief.
You can dowload the free book from
depression to glorious health at www.Geocities.Com/glorious
health
this covers an effective mood elevating
diet in some detail.
But by the far the fastest and most
effective technique I know of to relieve
depression is eft (emotional freedom
technique).
You can learn to do it yourself in a few
minutes and you can see positive benefits
in mood etc also within a few minutes.
Just a few days ago I interviewed a fully
qualified and highly respected australian
psychologist (steve wells) who uses eft as
the main therapy in his successful
psychology practice.
Many health professionals use this method
and its use is growing rapidly.
The reason i'm saying this is because it
may seem a little strange and it's quite
normal to be sceptical.
But try it and you'll be amazed!
Eft also makes other therapies like
cognitive therapy more effective because
eft rapidly removes or relieves negative
emotions allowing you to think more
rationally.
The technique basically involves tapping
various acupressure points with your index
and middle finger while thinking about
your negative emotions or experiences. I
told you it would sound strange.
If you go to this site it will show you
the basic sequence of points to tap.
Getting it right 100% is not necessary to
begin with.
Just do the best you can.
If you have any trouble feel free to post
or contact me.
The link to the free site is below.
Http://www.Tapi
ntoheaven.Com/2eft/eftproce.Shtml
thank you for your reply. I do want to
get better (i was diagnosed with major
depression in nov 2003), I take the max
dosage of effexor in the evening and I
take wellbutrin in the morning. My doc
is still trying to regulate the wellbutrin
every two weeks.
I still harbour a lot of anxiety and
bitterness toward the people, situations
that assisted me in becoming depressed,
not to mention a family pre-disposition on
my paternal side. I find it hard to
explain myself. I am a very black --
white individual -- not a lot of room, if
any for grey.
Perhaps this could be an example, my
former doc used to try to get me to not
think that I was such a health question
(just one of my many charms). He said,
if you don't like it, change it. Well,
I thought, no, I don't let many people
"in". If you don't like the fact that I
am a health question, stay away, if you
can tolerate that I am a health question,
c'mon down! But then i'll change.
Once i've let you "in", I will change and
give you the shirt off my back, bend-over
backwards -- whatever. Am I making any
sense?
Any more advice?? I know -- go to
sleep.
Hope to hear from you soon and thanks
again.
Renee
hi renee,
it's andrew's your turn to disagree with
me
nobody is perfect! Perfection is an
illusion that only serves to make us
miserable because it is unattainable. Try
to be perfect and you'll feel like a
failure (i'm speaking from years of
experience trying this myself), but if you
try to be average two things will
happen... 1) you will find out that are
better than average and 2) you will relax
and feel happier. Andrew feel free to
correct me here if i'm wrong, but I think
he was trying to say you renee are a
loveable and worthwhile person and I am
certain this is true :d
the person you describe in your note above
sounds like someone who has been poorly
treated and is a true diamond in the rough
waiting to come out and share how
wonderful you are but you have been beat
down too many times and have withdrawn to
protect your loveable self for the time
being which is perfectly understandable.
You said you don't see grey... Cbt is
based on countering a series of thinking
errors that people that are troubled tend
to make and one of the most common ones is
one called extreme thinking which is where
you see everything as being completely
good or completely bad no grey exists. In
reality very few things are all good or
all bad almost all fall somewhere in the
middle. The exercises in cbt teach you to
see things more clearly and accurately.
When we are down or anxious we tend to
view things less clearly and that is what
causes us to be so upset. We tend to jump
to conclusions that are not necessarily
accurate and make mountains out of
molehills. I hope this is making some
sense to you?
You sound a lot like me before I found
cbt. I was the type who would give you
shirt off my back etc, but I was so
untrusting of people and had been taken
advantage of so many times it was nearly
impossible to get me to let you in. I
even inquired about electro shock therapy
and can't tell you how glad I never got it
and hope you never do either but I
certainly understand the desperation you
are feeling as I was once there too and it
is not fun.
All of our feelings come from our
thoughts. So if we are thinking
negatively and inaccurately we will feel
miserable. For example if you think
losing is fun you will be miserable when
you win. It's not winning that makes you
miserable it's your inaccurate thoughts
that are and that is what is happening to
most anxious and depressed people and it
is easier than you think to change but
does take some work and dedication to the
exercises. No one no matter how cruel
they are to you can make you feel bad.
It's only when you choose to believe what
they are saying that you get upset. Sorry
I have run on so long but I really hope
this is helpful as I am certain you are a
wonderful person who just needs some
adjustments to the way you process things
and then you can more readily share your
gifts with others :d
take care and keep in touch.
Q
|
qt3
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 264
Re: Wow! Posted: 03-01-04 01:27am
[quote="caesarsmama"]i want this to go
away. I want to go out again. I want
to smile and laugh again. I know, it's
mind over matter and I used to be able to
do that; however, I seem to have lost
that ability.
Renee quote]
you will smile and laugh again renee :p
q
|
AndrewGloriousHealth
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 28 Location: Australia
Perfection Posted: 03-01-04 06:45am
Qt3,
i was talking about perfection in a
spiritual sense.
Since only a very small percentage of
people actually understand what I mean a
better way of putting it would be that you
are complete just the way you are.
If you completely accept everything and
everyone including yourself just the way
they are you are accepting reality.
Your life is also complete and perfect.
I think the whole point is that your are
already perfect.
There is no need to attain perfection, you
are already there.
All you need to do is see it.
You are complete, loveable and whole just
the way you are.
Cognitive therapy is effective.
It helps you reprocess your thoughts.
If you combine cbt with eft (emotional
freedom technique) you can relieve the
negative emotions that are attached to
your thoughts.
This makes cognitive therapy very powerful
indeed.
I have seen patients with serious
depression alter their moods dramatically
in less than an hour with eft.
The depression is usually gone completely
within three weeks.
No other therapy I know of works this
quickly.
Just last week I interviewed steve wells,
a fully qualified psychologist who uses
eft as his main therapy in his successful
practice. He is very highly regarded in
his field (published in a peer reviewed
psychology journal).
From his psychology clinic in inglewood,
western australia, wells said: “if
you told me ten years ago i’d be
teaching people to tap on meridian points
to treat psychological problems I would
have said you’re crazy. It really
does sound like new age mumbo jumbo. But
now eft is rapidly gaining a wealth of
scientific and especially clinical
evidence.
“perhaps the greatest vindication
for eft is the growing list of highly
credentialed psychologists, counselors and
medical professionals employing eft with
their patients. You simply wouldn’t
keep using something that seems so strange
unless it worked.”
you can learn more about eft from www.Emofree.Com
there is plenty of free information there
and a free manual.
Dear fubajuba, nine years ago my husband
and I had an auto accident. We were not
hurt, but I woke up in the middle of the
night because I kept seeing the helmet on
a person hit our car. I developed
posttramatic stress disorder. I went to a
shrink and a therapist for a year. I
ended up in the hospital so they could
regulate my medication, and I have never
felt better. Going to therapy does help
and going to group is better because you
see people who are just like you and some
that are worse. Good luck, and god bless.
nobody is perfect! Perfection is an
illusion that only serves to make us
miserable because it is unattainable. Try
to be perfect and you'll feel like a
failure (i'm speaking from years of
experience trying this myself), but if you
try to be average two things will
happen... 1) you will find out that are
better than average and 2) you will relax
and feel happier. Andrew feel free to
correct me here if i'm wrong, but I think
he was trying to say you renee are a
loveable and worthwhile person and I am
certain this is true :d
