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Abortion > Abortion Pro Choice Forum > Something That Doesn't Make Sense to Me.
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Q: Something That Doesn't Make Sense to Me.
asked by: jenn_smithson on August 18th, 2006
Active User, very eHealthy
I went to another clinic to help out with their free pap smear day. We had 130 patients in 6 hours. It was a great event. Still, there were protestors outside with a stack of pamphlets. Several of our patients took the pamphlets when entering the parking lot (to be nice and respectful) but then handed them directly to us when they got inside. So, I read them.

The first pamphlet had to do with abortion. We weren't performing abortions but that's okay. However, in the pamphlet it stated that saline abortions are widely used. Saline abortions haven't been used since the seventies. So, my first question is why lie? It doesn't make sense to me to lie to anyone.

The second, third, fourth, and fifth pamphlets were all about abstinence-only, how great chastity is, and how it should be strived for by everyone who is unmarried. The problem with this, though, is that out of 130 patients, only 3 of them were unmarried. So four pamphlets were only applicable to 2.3% of our patients. In fact, most of our patients were older and brought their children with them.

The sixth pamphlet was about the common, every day birth control pill. The pamphlet stated that the birth control pill causes abortions. This is another lie. There is no medical or scientific evidence that this is true. But, this pamphlet got me to seriously thinking about "prolife" people. If your claim is that you want to end abortions, then shouldn't you support the tools that make unintended pregnancies less frequent? If you want no more abortions to take place, then why wouldn't you support the tool that makes the reason for abortions (unintended pregnancy) to not arise?

The only birth control that the pamphlet was positive towards was "natural family planning" which is known as having a horrible failure rate. 1 in 4 women who try nfp during one year become pregnant. If everyone stopped using hormonal birth control or even barrier methods like condoms and instead switched to nfp, there would be a huge increase in unintended pregnancies which, in turn, would mean that there would be a huge increase in abortions. So, again, if you want to end abortions, why don't you support birth control?

I truly do not understand this. 98% of americans use birth control during their lifetimes (this includes the women who belong to religions who condemn the practice of birth control). Women today have approximately 30 years in which they are fertile (age 15 to 45) and the average woman spends 7 years trying to get pregnant, being pregnant, and nursing. That means that the average woman has 23 years in which she is trying to avoid becomming pregnant. Further, the average american, married or single, young or old, has sex once a week. 85% of americans in some kind of a relationship report having sex at least once a week. If you're going to be having sex at least once a week and you're trying to avoid pregnancy for 23 years (or more) of your life, then you're going to have to depend on some kind of reliable birth control.

.T.H.I.S is the middle ground issue. Everyone likes birth control. Everyone uses birth control at some point. And everyone wants to prevent pregnancy instead of being put in the position to make a decision about abortion. So why not support and encourage consistent use of effective birth control?

Does this make sense to anyone?
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Tylanas
replied on August 18th, 2006
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Their problem is that their views on sex come from a different time, when thre was no good way to prevent pregnancy before marriage, and so the safest route was absitnance; since raising a child as a single mother back then was nearly impossible, as women had no rights. Now, we do have effective birth control, so there is no need to abstain anymore.
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jenn_smithson
replied on August 18th, 2006
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eiri wrote:
their problem is that their views on sex come from a different time,
I can slightly understand that. However, there does come a point when you must acknowledge the current reality. The reality now is that most people enjoy the fact that sex can be enjoyed outside of its ability to reproduce. Most people live lives where sex is to be enjoyed whether you're trying to have a baby or just trying to have an orgasm. Sooner or later, you have to realize that this is how the majority of people are living their lives and want to live their lives. But the "prolifers" and their pamphlets are completely out of touch with reality and with the majority of people and how they choose to live their lives.
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Cambion
replied on August 19th, 2006
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Oh come now, jenn - you don't actually expect pro-lifers to use facts and truth to support their beliefs, do you? You greatly overestimate these hypocrites...I mean 'saviors of miracles'. I've yet to see a pro-life argument that wasn't chock full of lies and/or religious b/s, and apparently little has changed.
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jenn_smithson
replied on August 23rd, 2006
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But everyone, even the "prolifers", are tired of the contention. At the same time, though, they don't seem to be wanting to embrace the true middle ground of reproductive issues - contraception. It seems as though the majority go out of their way to produce anti-birth control pamphlets even though the majority of people use birth control to build better lives.

If this is the middle ground and if you do truly want to see the numbers of abortions decrease, then the key is to support consistent, effective birth control, not denegrate it. If you don't, then what is it that you're truly after?
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Birch
replied on August 24th, 2006
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Some Ideas From Me
jenn_smithson wrote:
if this is the middle ground and if you do truly want to see the numbers of abortions decrease, then the key is to support consistent, effective birth control, not denegrate it. If you don't, then what is it that you're truly after?


*fear. Not all, but many prolifers want you to fear god, fear sex, fear birth control, fear pregnancy, and if that doesn't work, fear abortion.

*tradition. Many prolifers I come into contact with disdain current alternative lifestyles. Living together out of wedlock, people as a whole becoming more accepting towards single motherhood, birth control being distributed (because this of course leads people to have more sex!)-- these things many prolifers feel are detrimental to society. They want the traditional family unit to return, because that's when life was "better". They are brainwashed to believe that anything outside of married, 2.5 kids, a dog, and a minivan in the garage is in league with satan and worthy of 'looking down upon'.

*ignorance. Complete misinformation on birth control, economics, sex, procreation, and reality. They truly believe that birth control is bad. Abortion is worse, all little babies are wanted "miracles", and women should be punished for having sex.

*economics. On another forum, a gentleman said that there is a shortage of social security for folks retiring now due to the number of abortions that have taken place. If these children had been born, they would be working to support retired citizens. Basically, he wanted abortion to be abolished so we could have little worker bees supporting the aging population.

*more economics. In the usa, many wonder how the usa will remain a "superpower" if we continue to "kill" offspring and potential middle class workers. Personally, I think the usa has about 35 years, if less than that, of retaining some kind of major economic foothold.

Thinking seriously of moving to new zealand in about ten years.
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diamondsz
replied on August 24th, 2006
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I dont blame you

people believe woman should stay at home and do nothing just produce kids, im sorry we have our freedom and with that freedom of choice I think abortions should stay legal until men have to go through a pregnancy.


The ignorance of that man (birch) I hate ignorant people what the hell does he know does he have kids if not then hes calling the kettle black if he does I bet you he never had to take care of the for more than 8 hrs.

The day they remove our rights is the day I will become a lesbian just because I believe in freedom/equality!!
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patiencekea
replied on September 11th, 2006
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That Blew My Mind No Need to Abstain Anymore
eiri wrote:
their problem is that their views on sex come from a different time, when thre was no good way to prevent pregnancy before marriage, and so the safest route was absitnance; since raising a child as a single mother back then was nearly impossible, as women had no rights. Now, we do have effective birth control, so there is no need to abstain anymore.


oh wow!!! You just blew my mind with that statement "there is no need to abstain anymore"....I would most certainly say there is reason to abstain. There are std's which the pill does not protect you from. There are std's that the condom does not even protect you from. Nothing is 100% effective but abstainance.....

I am neither a pro sex or anti sex but sex is a very emotional thing no matter how much you (not meaing you directly) think its not. Its a way to connect with someone on a very personal level. Its a great way to releve stress but I sure as heck hope that my daughter or son abstain till they are emotionally ready to handle the effect that it will have on them.

I lost my virginity at 16 to someone just because I thought that they would love me if I did and the emotional blow that came with losing them I was not prepared for. I was also not prepared for the news I got from the dr that I had a std. I thought because I used a condom that I was safe........Well I wasn't. After that I abstained for a long while till I wanted to make that connection with someone and also to make sure that I didn't get an std or unwanted prgnancy.

I agree with abstaining however I believe our children and adults need to educated on the true facts of reality when it comes to std's, unwanted pregnancy, and the emotional impact it has on your life.
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sandyallen
replied on September 11th, 2006
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Patiencekea
I am sorry that this has happened to you! You just reminded me of how many times that I have told my kids(young adults now) that nothing is 100% safe. Ifeel though if you plan or are going to have sex that something is safer than nothing and use it correctly(i am not saying that you did not but their are those that do not know how)
all the best!
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Tylanas
replied on September 11th, 2006
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Re: That Blew My Mind No Need to Abstain Anymore
patiencekea wrote:
eiri wrote:
their problem is that their views on sex come from a different time, when thre was no good way to prevent pregnancy before marriage, and so the safest route was absitnance; since raising a child as a single mother back then was nearly impossible, as women had no rights. Now, we do have effective birth control, so there is no need to abstain anymore.


oh wow!!! You just blew my mind with that statement "there is no need to abstain anymore"....I would most certainly say there is reason to abstain. There are std's which the pill does not protect you from. There are std's that the condom does not even protect you from. Nothing is 100% effective but abstainance.....


I am neither a pro sex or anti sex but sex is a very emotional thing no matter how much you (not meaing you directly) think its not. Its a way to connect with someone on a very personal level. Its a great way to releve stress but I sure as heck hope that my daughter or son abstain till they are emotionally ready to handle the effect that it will have on them.

I lost my virginity at 16 to someone just because I thought that they would love me if I did and the emotional blow that came with losing them I was not prepared for. I was also not prepared for the news I got from the dr that I had a std. I thought because I used a condom that I was safe........Well I wasn't. After that I abstained for a long while till I wanted to make that connection with someone and also to make sure that I didn't get an std or unwanted prgnancy.

I agree with abstaining however I believe our children and adults need to educated on the true facts of reality when it comes to std's, unwanted pregnancy, and the emotional impact it has on your life.


it's called a condom. If you're afraid of stds and are with a partner or multiple partners whom you are not sure if they are clean or not, use a condom.

Having a healthy view of yourself, and of love, and of sex will prevent women like you having sex "just to make him love me". I waited until I was in love with a man who loved me back to have sex. That means I had to wait until I was 20, but that's how it goes.

Name an std that a condom can't prevent? What std goes through the latex of a condom? I'd love to know. And no, wearing a condom on the penis and then giving unprotected oral isn't going to work.
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Jules
replied on September 12th, 2006
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How about pubic lice? I expect they can be passed on to someone even when a condom is used.

The best advice is def still to use one though!!!
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Tylanas
replied on September 12th, 2006
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purestgreen wrote:
how about pubic lice? I expect they can be passed on to someone even when a condom is used.



The best advice is def still to use one though!!!



how so? I agree the best plan is to always use one with a new partner until you know that you're both clean. And if you're dirty enough to have sex with someone who is filthy enough to have pubic lice...
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Jules
replied on September 12th, 2006
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Condoms do not offer 100 per cent protection from stds and unwanted pregnancy. It will not consistently prevent transmission of stds passed through skin-to-skin contact - for example, syphilis, human papilloma virus (warts) and herpes. However, if used properly, they are very effective and can reduce the risk of transmission of these stds.

Pubic lice are spread by skin-to-skin contact with someone who has lice, usually through sexual contact. They can also spread by sharing an infected person's bedding, clothing or towels. They cannot jump or fly. Condoms do not prevent the spread of pubic lice.


Taken from: http://www.Bchealthguide.Org/healthfiles/h file08h.Stm
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Tylanas
replied on September 12th, 2006
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I reiterate that partners should know about each other's histories and should know that each other is clean before engaging in sexual contact.
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