first off, believing in a soul is a little necessary for your example. I'm not saying I don't, i'm not saying I do. Also, if the ectopic pregnancy isn't somehow aborted by the woman's own body, it kills her, and that's final. I have never heard of a woman surviving an ectopic pregnancy. The fallopian tube is too small and does not contain the nutrients or the amnionic sac like the womb. Also, i'd like to hear from a reputable source of an abdominal pregnancy that actually survived. I can see that happening a little bit more than an ectopic one. An ectopic pregnancy is like trying to put a seed in a very small closed box and then letting it grow. It's going to break the box, and when that happens in the woman, she hemmorages.

Also, many women miscarry in the early stages and don't even know it, because her body identifies something wrong with the zef and gets rid of it. It doesn't do everything it can to save it, it does everything it can to make sure a healthy normal baby is born.

A zef is something that has few human characteristics. It has human genes, and it is developing to become a full human, but especially at the early stages, it is not. When does "baby-ness" happen? People's opinions differ. For one girl on here, it becomes a baby when it implants, not when it is fertilized. So birth control pills and the "morning after" pills are not considered abortion to her. For me personally, there is a window of time between 15-20 weeks where the fetus goes from being unable to survive outside the womb to being able to survuve, rarely, with intensive care. At that point, in my opinion, it becomes human. This 5 week time period is a little like puberty; it doesn't happen instantaneously, and it is different for every zef.

were you trying to have a baby? That definately makes a difference. Losing a baby when all you want is a child is heartbreaking, but so also is being forced to care for a child you do not want when you're only 15.

First off without a soul you are a dead man walking in skin.

I have plenty of links to abdominal pregnancy surviving. One example aired on abc new sept 27th 2005. Also was on the radio same day.

Ectopic is not just fallopian tube pregnancy--it is also ovarian, abdominal, ectopic meaning out of place.
And there have been fallopian tube babys that have survived also. Just read of one the other day on the internet. And my mom knew a lady when she was young who survived a fallopian tube pregnancy. 9 lb baby. They thought it was a tumor. Yes they are a lot more dangerous, and pple have died, but like you say the body only expells "damaged baby's" not viable one. But in all the links to abdominal pregnacy I have read--with modern medicaine-- only one mother did not survive the birth. The baby did survive though.

Abdominal pregnancy, cervical pregnancy, tubal pregnancy

definition
ectopic pregnancy occurs when the fertilized egg implants in tissue outside of the uterus and the placenta and fetus begin to develop there. The most common site is within a fallopian tube. However, ectopic pregnancies can rarely occur in the ovary, the abdomen, and in the lower portion of the uterus (the cervix).

The most common site is the fallopian tube.


********ectopic pregnancy treatment*******

in the event that pelvic-organ rupture has occurred because of the ectopic pregnancy, internal bleeding and/or hemorrhage may lead to shock. This is the first symptom of nearly 20% of ectopic pregnancies.


It is an emergency condition. Therefore, initial treatment may be needed to address shock by keeping the woman warm, elevating her legs, and administering oxygen. Treatment with intravenous fluids and sometimes a blood transfusion is performed as soon as possible.


Surgical laparotomy is performed to stop the immediate loss of blood (in cases in which rupture has already occurred), or to confirm the diagnosis of ectopic pregnancy, remove the products of conception, and repair surrounding tissue damage as much as possible. In some cases, removal of the involved fallopian tube may be necessary.


In non-emergency cases, mini-laparotomy or laparoscopy are the most common surgical treatments. Such procedures have similar outcomes. However, they are less invasive and are available at a lower cost because they require minimal hospitalization or outpatient treatment.


Non-surgical (medical) management is being implemented in many medical centers for ectopic pregnancies without suspected immediate danger of rupture. In such cases, methotrexate is administered with careful outpatient monitoring of the woman and serial quantitative hcgs, cbcs, and liver funtion tests.


*************ectopic pregnancies cannot continue to term, so removal of the developing cells is necessary to save the life of the mother. *******

First off I don't believe that the removal of an ectopic pregnancy is necessarily abortion. Not in the sense that sole reason was to kill the zef. It's all about intent. The intent of induced abortion is to kill the zef (baby)...The intent of removing an ectopic pregnancy is to save the life of the mother...


Also...





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news.Bbc.Co.Uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/beds/b ucks/herts/4197194.stm

'special' baby grew outside womb

lisa pittman with her miracle baby millie-an
a baby girl has survived and been delivered by emergency caesarean after growing in her mother's abdomen.
Doctors at lister hospital in stevenage only realised millie-an pittman was in the wrong place when her mother lisa was admitted for a caesarian operation.

The 27-year-old, from letchworth in hertfordshire, had been told she would find it hard to have children.

Baby millie-an, whose name is a play on the words "one in a million", was delivered weighing 8lb 7oz.

Despite repeated scans during pregnancy, millie-an's position beneath her mother's stomach was never noticed.

In so many ways millie-an is a very special baby indeed and it's great to hear that she and lisa are doing so well



ms pittman, who lost 12 pints of blood and needed emergency surgery after the birth, including a bowel operation, said it was only after surgery that the truth became clear.

"i only fully realised what had happened when I came round in intensive care. I had a lot to take in because I had a hysterectomy as well," she said.

"i didn't meet my daughter until three days after she was born because I was very poorly, but when I saw her I was just overwhelmed and I went into mummy mode."


millie-an pittman weighed 8lb 7oz at birth

"i'm just happy to be alive and i'm in love with my daughter. I don't feel as though i've lost anything, i've just gained.

"she is my one in a million and that's why I called her mille-an."

consultant obstetrician and gynaecologist douglas salvesen said lisa's case was "incredibly rare".

"the odds against one going undetected, reaching full term and for the baby to be delivered and the mother to survive are literally huge," he said.

"in so many ways millie-an is a very special baby indeed and it's great to hear that she and lisa are doing so well

Well it's lovely when they do survive, but as was stated, a tubal pregnancy cannot carry to term. What were we arguing about here?

you are right. It does make a difference. Im not condemming anybody by the way just sharing my own feelings...

However you want to define ectopic is fine and dandy. It still does not change the fact that you are killing your flesh and blood with abortion. Pro-choice admits (most the time) it's killing but say it does not matter because the "zef" is nothing. Blah, blah blah. Like others said, this is a comfort zone in justifying the awful truth and destruction of abortion. Woman who abort for non-medical reasons are guilty of killing their own child and are not worthy of respect, nor anything else good, maybe not even life, for that matter.

anyone who thinks that women are not allowed to control their own bodies is a misogynistic and ignorant person. Anyone who think something that is basically an egg yolk and has no greater individuality or intelligence than a slug has precedence over what a woman thinks is best for her life must be suffering from some kind of serious personality disorder, which should really be weeded out of the gene pool.

my my poopoo, you always manage to drag the attention away from your killing self to inflict on the people who actually care about life-pro life.
Your attempt above at trying to make me out to be some "monster" (hah), was a poor attempt to put it nicely. In fact, you edit failed dear.

As I have said again and again, abortion is about killing an innocent human. Just because it lives inside the mother's womb does not make it less of a person, it is in the start of the process of life. Ever hear of it? Take biology in high school? An egg yolk......Amusing! I will remember that next time I decide to fry some eggs for my toast. And your calling me ignorant? Lol you have no respect for human life and your a disgrace to womanhood. I hope nobody such as yourself ever scars a child's life by being their .Mother. Abortion is killing and once again as pro-choice you are just attempting to make yourself feel better about condoning it by saying it's about a "woman's body".Edit hun. Go hug another tree for me.

You are entitled to your opinion as to whether a blob is worth more than a living person. But the obsession with what's inside other people's uteri is seriously disturbing.

oh good .Lord already....I'm not "obsessed" with what is inside another woman's uterus. I simply respect life and hate seeing innocent young lives taken for pure selfishness. That's all. Easy enough concept to grasp poo, don't ya think??

no, I feel exactly the same way. That is why it makes me so angry about people who have a baby "because I want a baby" -- the selfishness of bringing more children into the world just because someone *wants* one, when there are already so many starving children in the world already.

If you want to call it selfish for wanting a child, than so be it. That is silly though. If it's selfish, it certainly is not a "bad" selfish.
Now....Those who have no business having children because they are not fit are a different story. Like the drug addict .Mother who figures she can use the system for the money she gets for each child to buy her crack. That is obviously selfish. The man and woman who long to have a child to love and care for and provide a good home to.....If you want to call it selfish, okeydoke, I call it a desire, a wish, a want. It's good.

so why don't you go on a killing spree and kill every woman who's ever had an abortion? My mum is dead, my bf's mum is dead, and hundreds of thousands of others. They aren't worthy of life, as fully grown humans. And now, they'll never be able to bring more life into the world.

Just because a woman has one abortion does not mean she doesn't want to someday have children; it simply means she isn't ready right then. She has more than one egg for a reason! Abortion does not make a woman a bad person, it makes her a woman who has made a very hard desicion, and chosen to move on with her current life before having kids.

yikes! You call yourself pro-life?

You seem to be drawing a moral equivalence between a born person and something that has no brain, no mind, no individuality and no existence in actuality. There is no being in a first trimester abortion, just a body with human genes. That is a morally bankrupt position, imo.