Lumber Puncture

Unless you are pregnant, the doctor that did this to you messed up! There is a very basic technology called flouroscopy that should have been used to ensure that the needle placement was in a good place. Epidural medicine is placed "blind" all of the time in pregnnt women because there is a basic landmark area on all people that is well accepted and safe but is no longer the standard since the floroscope is so much more simple and safe to use for placement of needles in the spinal canal.

I am not sure why they would elect to go at you using only landmarks but since he did hit one of the nerve roots and you had experienced the brutal pain that accompanies nerve stimulation, they really owe you an explaination and also an appology.

You should contact the hospital administration and demand that there be an investigation into the purpose of the puncture if they did not draw csf for study, (menengitis test) or some other lab that would need csf to determine your headache trigger. (csf = cerebral spinal fluid)

you definatly need to follow up on this and make sure that you are healthy as well as not injured from the placement of the needle. Nerve damage can be totally traumatizing and long lasting.

Good luck.
-brian

Hi & thanks for the message brian, I did have fluid taken that was the point of the lumber puncture, however the first one was so bad I passed out.

The second was performed 15 minutes later, again I had the same terrible pain, I am so at my wits end, after I left hospital I woke up in bed to excrusiciating pain in my right hip it felt like someone had smashed it into pieces, since then things have gotten worse. I cannot sit in the car for more than 5 minutes before the pain radiates down my leg and my back has a contastant pain.

I did have some bruising when I left the hospital.

I have since seen a senior physio who says the symptoms I have are nothing to do with the lp., and that I have a prolapse disk !!!

Never had any back problems in my life before that. !!!!

Make sure to get a second opinion. With the lumbar spine, you will want to see an orthopedic surgeon not a neurosurgeon unless you have spinal cord damage.

As a side note, your spinal cord does not go all the way down your lumbar spaces, it stops at about l1/l2 and then the rest is open space and so this is the reason it is best to get csf from the lumbar region.

If you need surgery, try to have the team working on you use the charite artificial disk because it allows the spine to continue to be mobil and so you are less likly to need a second surgery and so on because with fusion you fixate the inter-vertebral space and move all of the mobility from one space to another and so the next disk will wear out sooner then it is supposed to and you will require more surgery.

Good luck and please keep us up to date,
-brian

Hi again brian
have you ever heard of anyone getting any problems from a lumber puncture ???

My doctor doesnt seem to have any idea, but she is just a general doctor & not a specialist in backs, after I came out of hospital and was taken off high doses of pain killers to rid the original crushing pain in my head that I went in with !!! I end up with this, and then the pain started and has never gone.

Its very frustrating not to know whats caused it, and it being the same pain as the needle caused, in the first place. !!!!

I have had a mri scan and I am waiting for the results which should be in a week.
Very slow in the uk !!!

Thanks again

That to me sounds like lumbar herniation,
which I just had sugery for that,

Was it through a lumber puncture ???

Sorry trudy it took me so long to get back to you. No I have not heard of too many problems being cause from having a lumbar puncture. The biggest risk is for there to be infection. Otherwise the majority of tissue is very flexable, as well as self healing. You should be feeling better by now as far as the punture is concerned.

Let us know how it is going.

Hi

i had lumber punture, not once but twice. The second time they did it made my whole body worser now I cant walk, talk, stand up as a long as much, I cant use my arms and I have a back pain in my lower back. Now i'm suing the bloody doctor.

The symptoms you are having are so varied that saying the lumbar puncture made this happen is almost impossible! The placement of the needle is no where near the spinal cord! You are not having arm pain from this procedure.

You may have gotten an infection and that is causing thes symptoms and so you are having so many symptoms but it is not the procedure that made you like this.

Did you have no symptoms and the doctor said "hey, lets do a lumbar puncture, those are loads of fun and I feel like doing one on you now".

Probably not, you had to have had something wrong with you to have been prescribed a puncture in the first place.

Good luck,
brian

Hello everyone, I have also had a horrible experience with a spinal tap. I went to the hospital 4 nights ago, due to an extreme migraine. I have had similar migraines before, due to muscle tension in my neck. I explained this to the er doctor, but he insisted in doing a ct scan and a lp. The lp. Was horrifing!! I felt stabbing pain all up and down my back, repediatly..They left me lay there for two more hours(without checking the bandage), gave me two tylox and said see ya later..I made it back to my house (after stopping to throw up twice) and my wife took a look at my back and was shocked to find 19 holes that problem doctor had made in me. I stay lying down the rest of the day and night with a new headache. This new headache deserves a catagory all to its self. The mother of all migraines..I could only stand up momentarily for the pain would knock me to the floor instantly. When lying flat the pain would subside. I went to a differnt hospital and the staff at the hospital acted very surprized about the amount of holes in my back. They preformed a blood patch, which provided me with instant relief from the headache.
Now my lower back feels extremely bruised and I still have a dull headache. I'm scared about what the future will hold. How much spinal fluid can a person afford to loose?
When does brian damage occour?
The doctor did not even have a face mask on nor did he scrub his hands. I noticed that at the second hospital I went to they took great care in insuring a steril enviroment , and the first hospital did not even have sheets on the bed.
Im not sure, but I bet any kind of infection in your spinal area is no joke..
I wish I had my head on right before the spinal tap was first done, but anyone who gets migraines can tell you that all you can think of is making the pain stop.
If anyone has had an experience like this I would appreciate the insite

The worst thing done to you was the er giving you a narcotic analgesic to help with heaace pain related to the lp. It is not fully understood why it is so bad but it is evidenced in all people that have a leak and csf migraine that giving even codine, will make the problem worse.

As far as the 19 holes in your back, you are right that was a bad or really inexperienced doc! Call a malpractice attorney asap and get them to take pictures of your back andif you can begin litigation, you need to.

As far as scrubbing, it is not necessary, latex gloves are more than adequate as long as the doc is not touching the catheter that is being inserted into the spinal column. If you can go to your family practice doc and have them look at what happened to you and then refer you to a doc that he trusts and works with.

As far as how much csf can you lose. I do not know but I do know that you will need to increase your water/gatorade intake to allow your body to replace the lost fluid. If you are still leaking, you need to go to the hospital and get that hole patched because you will never get rid of the headache until the leake is stopped!

I have read all the replys to problems associated with lumber punctures, I am still in pain, 8 months later, I have had a mri scan which shows nothing. Yet the hospital want to offer me pain management and ask do I want to see someone to help me feel less depressed !!! I cannot remember feeling depressed before the 2 lumber punctures that seemed to have caused a pain running down my spine and right leg & hip constantly, does anyone have any answers to why I have these problems because I know for sure I have had them before the lp were done. Thanks :roll:

Oh my goodness. Personally I think they punctured your disc, and possibly injured your nerves as well. Possibly disc pressing on nerve roots.

I have very much nerve damage and spinal cord compromise from disc rupture, disc bulge, and total disc compromise(l5--s1) spinal dislocation, spina biffida occulta, spondylolisthesis grade 2 l5 --s1. Anyway I say this because a lot of the symptoms you state are like the ones I experienced with my accident. And most of my symptoms come from the disc rupture, disc protrusion, and the disc compromise. And apart from the good .Lord I would have never been the same again. For he is truly healing my spine now. I endured this for 4 years, before .God started to heal me.

I had a horrible experience with lumbar puncture too--they were doing mine for a mylogram(after this injury) to find where my nerves and disc were damaged. They did the puncture without episode at all, but by the next day--my spinal fluid was running into my body. I had a leak in my spinal cord. When I lay down I could feel csf flowing to the other side of my head. Like I was 1/2 empty. I was drinking water by the 64 oz cups and could not keep the fluid in there. I had horrible horrible headaches. And throwing up for 5 days. Then they had to do it again in emergency dept. And put a blood patch in to stop the leak--thank .God it worked.

I truly hope they can do something to help you, for I would not wish the pain I endured with my discs on my worst enemy. The bone pains alone were nothing, compared to the nerve, bone, cord compression pains I endured from the disc rupturing and bulging.

The spinal cord is located within the spinal canal but it does not run all the way down into the lumbar and sacral sections of the spine. In most people, the spinal cord stops at about t12/l1 or l1/l2 not any further. This is why they do the lp procedure in the l4/l5 or l5/s1 area.

As far as csf leaking, it leaks out the hole that the catheter leaves when it is pulled out. If the doc preforming the procedure is worth his weight in salt, he will make sure you are ok before leaving the hospital.

You guys have had the worst treatment I have read about when it comes to something so sensetive as the spine and your csf. All I can say is that you need to contact malpractice attorneys and begin litigation. Normally, the attorney will also have a relationship with the best docs to get you fixed and sue for those fees too.

Thanks, I still dont understand but I will research. I do know my spinal condition pulled on my spinal cord--and that with spina biffida occulta, I could possibly have a tethered spinal cord--and mine may be longer than most pples.(past l1-l2) I also know now, I have what they are calling atrophy of the spinal cord--looks like a rip or hole or stretched spot in my spinal cord at t-7.(since my spine dislocated and I received no treatment or care--fighting workman's comp) for when my spine fell forward it also fell down. My upper spine went completely straight, where I used to have scoliosis. (however you spell it)

Hi again

wouldnt a mri scan show up any problems, I cannot believe that they think I am depressed and dont have any of these incrediable painful symptons, on top of the pain in my right side, I also am suffering with severe fatigue, joint pains, back pain, leg pain, headaches, and I cannot seem to find an answer. I never had any of this before the lumber punctures, my life is a misery now, instead of feeling 42 I feel 72.

Trudy



quote="fatfamily02"]oh my goodness. Personally I think they punctured your disc, and possibly injured your nerves as well. Possibly disc pressing on nerve roots.


I have very much nerve damage and spinal cord compromise from disc rupture, disc bulge, and total disc compromise(l5--s1) spinal dislocation, spina biffida occulta, spondylolisthesis grade 2 l5 --s1. Anyway I say this because a lot of the symptoms you state are like the ones I experienced with my accident. And most of my symptoms come from the disc rupture, disc protrusion, and the disc compromise. And apart from the good .Lord I would have never been the same again. For he is truly healing my spine now. I endured this for 4 years, before .God started to heal me.


I had a horrible experience with lumbar puncture too--they were doing mine for a mylogram(after this injury) to find where my nerves and disc were damaged. They did the puncture without episode at all, but by the next day--my spinal fluid was running into my body. I had a leak in my spinal cord. When I lay down I could feel csf flowing to the other side of my head. Like I was 1/2 empty. I was drinking water by the 64 oz cups and could not keep the fluid in there. I had horrible horrible headaches. And throwing up for 5 days. Then they had to do it again in emergency dept. And put a blood patch in to stop the leak--thank .God it worked.


I truly hope they can do something to help you, for I would not wish the pain I endured with my discs on my worst enemy. The bone pains alone were nothing, compared to the nerve, bone, cord compression pains I endured from the disc rupturing and bulging.[/quote]

Yeah, I was installing satellite dishes at 41 and they just say things like--well, you are getting older. Well, it happened over night. And I am very strong country born and bred girl--and they say my strength is okay for a woman. I am no normal woman and I can kick many guys as/ses. I am really strong, but after this I lost all the strength in my whole body. And instead of a healthy strong(installing satellite dishes, moving ladder-- fiberglass by myself, climbing on roofs.) 41 year old I felt really old.

I just hope they find where to help you.

Trudy,

i am terribly sorry that you are still in pain. I am very worried that you may be suffering from an undiagnosed infection. You should not be in any pain at all. As I have said before, the lumbar spine is the best place to get csf because the spinal column is basically empty with the exception of csf. The cord stops in most beople at l1/2 and so it is the safest place to get the sample.

I cannot beging to understand nor will I pretend to have the knowledge or the training to tell you how to procede but in my humble opinion, you need to be looked at from an endocrinology view point. Find a doc that will test you for infection in the spinal column or for other infection/trauma.

Good luck,
brian