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Debate Forums > Abortion Debate Forum > What Is the Difference Between This Boy And a Abortionist? (Page 3)
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trina1
on June 9th, 2005
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pcforme wrote:
trina1 wrote:
who grants this personhood?


society. 14th amendment.


That was written long before abortion was legal. At that time abortions were few and far between and the government had no part in them. Thus...I believe that it was written believing that all unborn would be born.


trina1 wrote:
so the fetus is alive....It is just not a child. It only becomes a child when it is out of the uterus....And yet if you are pregnant and someone shoots you and your baby dies inside you.....The shooter can be convicted of not a nice act. Hmmmm...And yet....You can't not a nice act a fetus. Hmmmm....Makes perfect sense. Not!


i support fetal protection laws because the mother shouldn't be forced to abort against her will. I don't consider it homicide. But it does violate her reproductive rights.

Doesn't matter whether you consider it homicide or not...The law does. Thus...You can't kill a fetus...Only a child.


trina1 wrote:
in order to be guilty of something....An action must be taken....A baby never takes an action....It merely exists. The female is there when the child is created....A willing participant of sex....So "if" there is guilt....She is taking the action....Not the child. You did go to school...Right?


yup... And again, sex isn't against the law and doesn't make anyone guilty.


So if no one is guilty...Why does the child get punished.


trina1 wrote:
not if they are live human beings.


yes, I do. No one has the right to live off my body.


They do if you helped create them.

trina1 wrote:
the unborn babies....Were you napping while posting again?


what are unborn babies? No such thing!


Really? How interesting.


trina1 wrote:
prove it.


i already did. Fetus is a medical term. Baby is an emotional term. I have science to back me up. You have fundie anti choice retoric.

Baby is an emotional term? Ummm...I do medical transcription and believe me....Baby is also a medical term, as is infant, teenager, adult.
You crack me up with some of the things you come up with and try to present as fact.
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trina1
replied on June 9th, 2005
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pcforme wrote:
trina1 wrote:
that was written long before abortion was legal. At that time abortions were few and far between and the government had no part in them. Thus...I believe that it was written believing that all unborn would be born.


considering all pregnancies didn't carry to term before abortion was legal, you point is pointless.


My bad....I should have said....All heathy pregnancies.



trina1 wrote:
doesn't matter whether you consider it not a nice act or not...The law does. Thus...You can't kill a fetus...Only a child.


the law only considers it homicide when it isn't a doctor doing it at a woman's request. And they are fetal protection laws. So, no, it doesn't make it a child.



Which only shows the inconsistencies of the law. Nothing more..Nothing less.


trina1 wrote:
so if no one is guilty...Why does the child get punished.


no child, therefore no punishment.


You keep telling yourself that. Lol


trina1 wrote:
they do if you helped create them.


no, wrong again. I am not required to give a kidney to a born child against my will. My parents are not obligated to give a lung to me if I need one. Therefore, you are wrong yet again.


You are so funny when you are stretching. Most parents would die to save the life of their child. It would not be a question of being required....It would be a question of doing anything to keep their child alive. If you had children...You would know that.


trina1 wrote:
baby is an emotional term? Ummm...I do medical transcription and believe me....Baby is also a medical term, as is infant, teenager, adult.


no, baby, infant, toddler, teenager, etc are developmental terms. And if you do medical transcription, you would know a fetus is not a baby

what? I thought you said baby was an emotional term? It is developmental...Much like conception, fetus, etc. It is all refering to the same thing....A human being.
Well, to the drs. I transcribe for...The term baby is used quite often.

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trina1
replied on June 9th, 2005
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pcforme wrote:
trina1 wrote:
my bad....I should have said....All heathy pregnancies.


so you can guarntee that all healthy pregnancies will result in a live birth?


The only thing I can guarantee in this life is taxes and eventual death.



trina1 wrote:
which only shows the inconsistencies of the law. Nothing more..Nothing less.


wrong. The law protects women from people that would otherwise force her to abort against her will.



Again...The inconsistencies of the law. On one hand it protects the baby from being killed by anyone other than the mother but on the other hand...It supports the mothers right to kill it. Makes a lot of sense.


trina1 wrote:
you keep telling yourself that.


yeah, the truth sucks, don't it?


Truth? Or just your version of it?





pcforme wrote:
no one has the right to live off my body.


trina1 wrote:
they do if you helped create them.


i am not required to give a body part to anyone. How is that stretching?



Since when does an unborn child require you to give them a body part? That is stretching.



trina1 wrote:
most parents would die to save the life of their child. It would not be a question of being required.


too bad that isn't what you said.


Really?



trina1 wrote:
if you had children...You would know that.


too bad that isn't what you said, huh? Again, prove I don't have children.


Proving you have no children is easy. If you had children you would know that it is not about selfishness. You lose the "all about me and my body" attitude and your love for them and their life overwhelms everything else.
If you do have children...Then obviously from the way you talk....They take a backseat to your wants and needs....And god forbid they ever need a kidney from you. But I am sure they will understand when you tell them that by law you are not required to give them one and that they have no right to any part of your body...Even if it is for their survival.

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steen
replied on June 9th, 2005
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trina1 wrote:
if you have ever had a child grown and live inside you.....
that would be an embryo or fetus. Your terminology is screwed up.
Quote:
then you know just how alive that child is...
still not a child. That aside, there have not been to many claims that the products of conception are not "alive." just because you put a lot of stock on reflexes doesn't mean that they are important for anything but your emotions.
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steen
replied on June 9th, 2005
Extremely eHealthy
trina1 wrote:
but if you support abortion in any case...
we support the woman having all options available. We are not uniquely supporting abortion, so your claim is a touch misleading.
Quote:
you are supporting death for an innocent human being.
the embryo or fetus are not "beings," so your claim still is just unsubstantiated prolife hyperbole.
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you are saying that individual is not worthy of life.
it is not an individual.
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by the logic you just used.....If a woman decided her 5 yr old was too much to handle and wanted to drown him or her....
nope, your claim is false. That merely shows that you do not have a good comprehension of logic, only of prolife manipulative revisionist linguistics. Prolife sophistry is not logic.
Quote:
the only difference is...It is legal to kill your child through abortion...It isn't legal to drown them.
still posting nonsense, as the embryo or fetus are not children.
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steen
replied on June 9th, 2005
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trina1 wrote:
wrong again....You support a womans right to kill her child.
a falsehood.

Quote:
did the child ask to be conceived? Last I knew that was mommy and daddy's area. Thus the child is innocent....It is mommy and daddy who aren't.
there is no child.

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conception is a stage of human life just like newborn, teenager, adult, etc.
but it doesn't generate a child, a baby, or "a human being," your prolife hyperbole none withstanding. These developmental stages begin after birth, your ignorance not relevant.

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any disruption of this from abortion to a gunshot wound is death. Thus you are killing a human being during the earliest stages of life.
a falsehood.

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if you truly believe an individual woman is worthy of life...Then what if that child is a girl....
there is no child.

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are you saying her life is not worthy? If a woman doesn't want to carry a child....In this day and age....She knows how not to get pregnant.
and if not, then you by golly are going to force her to give birth, misogynistic fundie theocrat.

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no twisting....Just fact.
a falsehood.

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the death of a child is the death of a child whether it be through abortion or drowning...The result is the same.
a falsehood.

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as I said before....You are the one that is wrong....But tell yourself whatever you have to......To justify the killing of a child.
a falsehood.

Quote:
again.....Wrong.
another prolife falsehood.
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trina1
replied on June 9th, 2005
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trina1 wrote:
"pcforme

it supports a woman's right to choose... Whether than choice be to continue or end the pregnancy.

What about the fathers right to choose life for his child? After all...That child is half his. What about the killers right to choose? What if someone is just so inconvenient to him...He just wants to kill them? Why is that wrong but killing an inconvenient child isn't? What about the unborn childs right to choose? I could be wrong...But I seriously doubt that any child would willingly choose to be sucked out of the womb, or disected in the womb and then just be discarded like trash.




Now medical facts are my opinion?

Not medical facts...Just your version of them.


[quote="trina1"]since when does an unborn child require you to give them a body part?


i spoke with a mother today that has a baby with one kidney. What is stopping you and your anti choice fundies from forcing her to give her kidney against her will?


Ummm...Great story...But you totally dodged the question. Also many people have one kidney and live long lives. Oh and when was the last time you heard of anyone giving a kidney, lung, etc. Against their will?

trina1 wrote:
really?


yup. You said if I create it, I am required to give my body and body parts to it against my will. You are wrong.

I said if you create it...You should be required to allow it to live. All you give it is nourishment and blood, it doesn't walk off with your heart or a kidney.



You are so foolish... But I have no intention of giving away information about my personal business. But it would surprise you.

Surprised...I doubt it. But you are smart not to give away personal info. You never know who is on a forum.


trina1 wrote:
if you do have children...Then obviously from the way you talk....They take a backseat to your wants and needs....And god forbid they ever need a kidney from you. But I am sure they will understand when you tell them that by law you are not required to give them one and that they have no right to any part of your body.


they wouldn't. Doesn't mean I wouldn't give one to someone that needed it. That is the difference between me and you. I understand that my wants/needs aren't shared by everyone. Absolutists like yourself think the only way is your way. If that isn't the ultimate in selfishness...


the ultimate selfishness is knowing you don't want children, not preventing it, then getting pregnant, and killing your unborn child. That is selfish. That is putting your childs life below your wants. Nothing could be more selfish. I believe all human beings both born and unborn have the right to life, and if this makes me an absolutists, a fundie, a pro-lifer or any other name you choose to call me (you are so good at it)....Then I wear the title proudly.
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lil_blaze2004
replied on June 9th, 2005
Supporter
steen wrote:
trina1 wrote:
if you have ever had a child grown and live inside you.....
that would be an embryo or fetus. Your terminology is screwed up.

Quote:
then you know just how alive that child is...
still not a child. That aside, there have not been to many claims that the products of conception are not "alive." just because you put a lot of stock on reflexes doesn't mean that they are important for anything but your emotions.


my "fetus" might be gettinghis nutrients off me (ie: living off me) right now but he's alive. Him moving is not reflexes, it's not like he only moves when I touch him. He hiccups, and has gas, and pees, and everything. And hopefully decides to get his lil butt out of mommy soon!!! Lol
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trina1
replied on June 9th, 2005
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steen wrote:
trina1 wrote:
if you have ever had a child grown and live inside you.....
that would be an embryo or fetus. Your terminology is screwed up.


An embryo or fetus is a developmental stage in a human beings life. Whether you call it embryo, fetus, baby, or child....It is all human life.

Quote:
then you know just how alive that child is...
still not a child. That aside, there have not been to many claims that the products of conception are not "alive." just because you put a lot of stock on reflexes doesn't mean that they are important for anything but your emotions.


so tell me....When does a child come to life? Magically when it hits the air? How come they would open up a womans uterus and do surgery on a child that is not alive? How come babies are born at 21 weeks and live and others aren't born until 36 or 40 and they to are alive? How come a woman went into to have an abortion, went to the bathroom, delivered a live baby and the drs. Wouldn't help save it? Was that considered abortion too.?
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steen
replied on June 9th, 2005
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trina1 wrote:
no...But from conception to senior citizen....You are a human being.
that is false.
Quote:
no....But if there is guilt...They are the ones that committed the act in which the child was conceived.
there is no guilt.
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so we agree....Both are in stages of human life. Good...Now you are getting it.
we have pointed this out for many years. But finally. *you* admit it.
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a fetus is just a pro-aborts word for a child.
you are lying.
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it makes a child sound less human and more like a thing....
your claim is false. You are still lying.
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thus trying to ease guilt.
you are lying.
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as I figured before you have no idea what it is like to carry a child or you would be far more educated on what goes on during pregnancy and the stages your child goes through before birth.
your claim is false.
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you would also know that the Dr. Doesn't wave a magic wand and have your child magically come to life when it's head comes out of the birth canal.
strawman. Nobody claimed this. You are dishonest.
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me try to emotionally manipulate? That is funny.
it is the truth.
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what do you think pro-aborts do
there are no proaborts here, your stinking lies none withstanding, scumbag.
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when they mislead women saying you aren't aborting a baby....Just a fetus.?
you are lying.
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unfortunatley...Many women have found out too late that what they actually did was kill a child and that they were horribly mislead.
your claim is a lie.
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oh and there you go with that name calling again.
observing that you are lying is not namecalling.
Quote:
you know...I don't believe I have called you a name once. I thought word on the street was.... Only us pro-lifers were mean and nasty.
rather, you lie a lot.
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lil_blaze2004
replied on June 9th, 2005
Supporter
Off topic....Steen, the sock/ace bandage thing worked! Thanks for the info.
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steen
replied on June 9th, 2005
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trina1 wrote:
oh...That is right....I keep forgetting that you believe that the Dr. Just magically clunks the baby on its head when coming out of the birth canal....And suddenly it is alive.
you are lying.
Quote:
abortion is never okay.
your claim is false. Most pl will agree that your claim is false.
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if used correctly bc is 99.9 % effective. No one should do anything for me. It's all about the babies.
there are no babies at the time of abortions.
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name calling again.....
no, a factual observation. You are an fool as you evidenced with your claim.
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of course it is a medical term for a "child" before birth....A stage of human life. But used in the context that pro-aborts use it....
ah, more false claims. You are really lying a lot today.
Quote:
it takes all the humaness out of the unborn child.
more false claims from the pre-dead corpse.
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trina1
replied on June 9th, 2005
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steen wrote:
trina1 wrote:
but if you support abortion in any case...
we support the woman having all options available. We are not uniquely supporting abortion, so your claim is a touch misleading.

In your definition of choice....You support a womans right to kill her child if it is inconveient. You can word it any politically correct way you want to....But it all comes down to the same thing.

Quote:
you are supporting death for an innocent human being.
the embryo or fetus are not "beings," so your claim still is just unsubstantiated prolife hyperbole.


Obviously you have never carried one. Gosh...And I guess my doctor was wrong when he told me I had a live little human inside me. I better let him know that his wall full of degrees and licenses don't mean a thing...Cause he doesn't know what he is talking about.Lol

Quote:
you are saying that individual is not worthy of life.
it is not an individual.

And you have some sort of medical something or other? How scarey.


Quote:
by the logic you just used.....If a woman decided her 5 yr old was too much to handle and wanted to drown him or her....
nope, your claim is false. That merely shows that you do not have a good comprehension of logic, only of prolife manipulative revisionist linguistics. Prolife sophistry is not logic.


I have quite good comprehension of logic. I also know when someone has to pull out their dictionary in order to try and cover up a pile of bs. A large vocabulary doesn't make you right...It merely means you can read.Lol

Quote:
the only difference is...It is legal to kill your child through abortion...It isn't legal to drown them.
still posting nonsense, as the embryo or fetus are not children.



still denying that truth huh? I would say there is far more evidence that they are children than that they are not.
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steen
replied on June 9th, 2005
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trina1 wrote:
who grants this personhood?
the law. "personhood" is a legal construct defined through the legal codes.
Quote:
and many believe that personhood does not exist until a "person" is aware of itself and its surroundings.
irrelevant. What the law says is not dependent on what people "believe."
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hmmm...So the fetus is alive....It is just not a child. It only becomes a child when it is out of the uterus....
correct. You are *finally* getting that "child" is a developmental stage that begins after birth. It is impressive that you actually learned this. Most prolifers never learn and continue to lie time after time.
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and yet if you are pregnant and someone shoots you and your baby dies inside you.....
there wouldn't be a baby yet. It would be an embryo or a fetus.
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the shooter can be convicted of not a nice act.
only in a few places where the law has yet to be challenged at the us supreme court where such unconstitutional laws will be struck down.
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in order to be guilty of something....An action must be taken....
the blastocyst/embryo is guilty of implantation.
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a baby never takes an action....It merely exists.
there is no baby until birth.
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the female is there when the child is created....
there is no child until birth. You already showed that you knew this, so now you are deliberately lying.
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a willing participant of sex....So "if" there is guilt....She is taking the action....Not the child.
there is no child until birth, liar.
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you did go to school...Right?
you apparently didn't.
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not if they are live human beings.
not true for embryos or fetuses.
Quote:
the unborn babies....
there are no such things, lying pre-dead corpse.
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steen
replied on June 9th, 2005
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trina1 wrote:
that was written long before abortion was legal. At that time abortions were few and far between and the government had no part in them.
abortions were not illegal when the 14th amendment was written, liar.
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thus...I believe that it was written believing that all unborn would be born.
what ever falsehood you pre-dead corpse believes, is irrelevamnt to the law.
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so if no one is guilty...Why does the child get punished.
there is no child, liar.
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baby is an emotional term?
when applied to a fetus, yes it is, liar.
Quote:
ummm...I do medical transcription and believe me....Baby is also a medical term, as is infant, teenager, adult.
medical terms for developmental stages beginning after birth, liar.
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trina1
replied on June 9th, 2005
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[quote="steen"]
trina1 wrote:
wrong again....You support a womans right to kill her child.
a falsehood.

So you say...Doesn't make it fact. But again....If I support a woman killing her child....I would have to deny it was a child to the end too.

Quote:
did the child ask to be conceived? Last I knew that was mommy and daddy's area. Thus the child is innocent....It is mommy and daddy who aren't.
there is no child.

You poor man....You must get awfully tired of have to repeat that pro-abort propaganda.

Quote:
conception is a stage of human life just like newborn, teenager, adult, etc.
but it doesn't generate a child, a baby, or "a human being," your prolife hyperbole none withstanding. These developmental stages begin after birth, your ignorance not relevant.

No you are wrong. Conception does generate a child. It generated you, me, and every other human on the planet. Development begins at conception and never stops until death.

Quote:
any disruption of this from abortion to a gunshot wound is death. Thus you are killing a human being during the earliest stages of life.
a falsehood.

Way to back up your statements. Lol.... I love your posts. Why don't you simply say....."you're a liar. I can't prove it...But i'm going to call you one anyone cause I don't like what you're saying." I do enjoy debating you.

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if you truly believe an individual woman is worthy of life...Then what if that child is a girl....[/.Quote]there is no child.

Lol...I haven't laughed this hard in a long time. This is hilarious.

Quote:
are you saying her life is not worthy? If a woman doesn't want to carry a child....In this day and age....She knows how not to get pregnant.
and if not, then you by golly are going to force her to give birth, misogynistic fundie theocrat.

Whoa...You must be running out of arguments because now you are resorting to name calling. You don't trust in your facts well enough to let them stand on their own...So you resort to pettiness. I don't need name calling when I post. First of all it is way beneath me...Second...I am confident in what I say....And I respect the fact that you don't have to agree with me....So there is no need to call you or anyone else names. Oh...And if the woman doesn't want to get pregnant...You and I both know she can take control of her body, before she is carrying another life inside her.

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no twisting....Just fact.
a falsehood.

Sad.

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the death of a child is the death of a child whether it be through abortion or drowning...The result is the same.
a falsehood.

If you weren't so amusing...I might have to pity you.

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as I said before....You are the one that is wrong....But tell yourself whatever you have to......To justify the killing of a child.
a falsehood.


Lol.....I know..I know...It is a falsehood....Because you said so.
Quote:
again.....Wrong.
another prolife falsehood.


omg...You gotta quit. I got tears running down my face from laughing so hard. I am so glad you are here to post. You have made my entire evening. Thank you.
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trina1
replied on June 9th, 2005
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steen wrote:
trina1 wrote:
no...But from conception to senior citizen....You are a human being.
that is false.

Quote:
no....But if there is guilt...They are the ones that committed the act in which the child was conceived.
there is no guilt.
Quote:
so we agree....Both are in stages of human life. Good...Now you are getting it.
we have pointed this out for many years. But finally. *you* admit it.

Quote:
a fetus is just a pro-aborts word for a child.
you are lying.

Quote:
it makes a child sound less human and more like a thing....
your claim is false. You are still lying.

Quote:
thus trying to ease guilt.
you are lying.

Quote:
as I figured before you have no idea what it is like to carry a child or you would be far more educated on what goes on during pregnancy and the stages your child goes through before birth.
your claim is false.

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you would also know that the Dr. Doesn't wave a magic wand and have your child magically come to life when it's head comes out of the birth canal.
strawman. Nobody claimed this. You are dishonest.

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me try to emotionally manipulate? That is funny.
it is the truth.

Quote:
what do you think pro-aborts do
there are no proaborts here, your stinking lies none withstanding, scumbag.

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when they mislead women saying you aren't aborting a baby....Just a fetus.?
you are lying.

Quote:
unfortunatley...Many women have found out too late that what they actually did was kill a child and that they were horribly mislead.
your claim is a lie.

Quote:
oh and there you go with that name calling again.
observing that you are lying is not namecalling.

Quote:
you know...I don't believe I have called you a name once. I thought word on the street was.... Only us pro-lifers were mean and nasty.
rather, you lie a lot.



prove it. Prove that I lied anywhere. You are hilarious. All you got is the word..."liar" or "its not a child." any educated person would read your repsonses and go into hysterics....And the fact you have backed up nothing you say....And your best shots are name calling......Your posts hold about as much water as my aunt hazel's faulty bladder. Lol...Please keep em coming. I am copying these posts and giving them to the drs. I work for. That will be an awesome way to start friday....With a whole lotta humor. Thanks again for the laughs.
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trina1
replied on June 9th, 2005
Active User, very eHealthy
Does anybody else love steen as much as I do? His hit and run posts are fabulous. Steen you have done more for pro-life by your unsubstantiated posting than I ever could. You are my hero...And I love your posts to death. Don't ever change.
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steen
replied on June 9th, 2005
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lil_blaze2004 wrote:
my "fetus" might be gettinghis nutrients off me (ie: living off me) right now but he's alive. Him moving is not reflexes, it's not like he only moves when I touch him. He hiccups, and has gas, and pees, and everything.
ah, but before 26th week of pregnancy, the only movements are reflexes. The fetus is not capable of anything else.
Quote:
and hopefully decides to get his lil butt out of mommy soon!!! Lol
heh, can't wait, I am sure.
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trina1
replied on June 9th, 2005
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[quote="steen"]
lil_blaze2004 wrote:
my "fetus" might be gettinghis nutrients off me (ie: living off me) right now but he's alive. Him moving is not reflexes, it's not like he only moves when I touch him. He hiccups, and has gas, and pees, and everything.
ah, but before 26th week of pregnancy, the only movements are reflexes. The fetus is not capable of anything else.


Then how come babies are born at 21 weeks and are just fine? If they aren't moving inside...How do they move outside.?


[
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