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Gout And Baking Soda (Page 1)

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I have had my uric acid levels tested 3 times . All tests were within the normal range. I developed a lump on the joint of my left big toe, and had it surgically removed. My podiatrist said it was gout tophi. He then referred me to a rheumatologist who tested my uric acid levels and swears I don't have gout my podiatrist thinks he is a quack. In the past year I have had about 5 attacks, getting worse all the time.
Just started the baking soda and am monitoring my urine ph. If this works, is this something I should do for the rest of my life? I would rather do this than spend a life time on drugs. Baking soda seemed to lesson the severity of the attack. On the baking soda box it says not to do this for more than 2 weeks. Please help I don't want to stop drinking an occasional beer or stop eating red meat.
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First Helper Wormboy
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replied March 29th, 2005
Experienced User
Baking soda in water is not a treatment for gout in mainstream medicine. I just accidentally found it to be extremely useful for my gout. I have not read about how much or how long can a person take it to treat gout. The following is for your info:
* ask your doctor if it's ok to keep taking it.
* read the side effects of baking soda given in paragraph 3.7 of http://www.Icuredmygout.Org . Stop taking it if the side effects show up.
* a baking soda box says: "do not use the maximum dose for more than 2 weeks." that implies if you don't take the maximum dose you can take it for longer than 2 weeks. In my experience, the dose before going to bed is the most effective one. The second is the one after getting up in the morning. If you want to cut baking soda intake, cut the day time ones and keep the night time and morning ones.
* the first time I used it, I took it for 2 weeks. Then I stopped it for weeks or months. I now take it on and off when I feel like it. I have no problem taking baking soda in water in past 2.5 years.
* reduce the salt intake while taking baking soda and monitor your blood pressure.
* keep seeing your doctor.
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Users who thank JYY2 for this post: Kikeinc 

replied March 25th, 2011
Sounds like it might be a great idea to consider taking baking soda!
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replied August 28th, 2011
Jyy 2

I´m 33, i had my first attack 11 months ago, since then I´ve had 5 attacks all of the right in my ankles, both of them. One of my first problems here in Mexico is that all the doctors are afraid of using colchisine or corticoids, so all goes to allopurinol and piraxicam, now I know that´s why my attacks last for more than a month. About 3 weeks ago I feel great, for the first time in those months, so I decided to start to exercise, one week later A flare, I was eating right, no alcoholic drinks or whatever. So I investigate even deeper, so that way, I found this page, I found your comments and the icure mygout page, I´ve with BS 3 days Now I walk, MAN, THANK YOU, THANK YOU A LOT for your share
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replied November 5th, 2011
Thank you will try baking soda remedy!
Recently, gout hit my left toe then
somehow left the toe and went to back of
my heel "ouch", then left there and now
the left top portion of same foot is tender.
Keeps moving around same foot. I'm on
50 mg of indocin 3x day and it's not
working so great. Will try banking soda
now and so tired of not being able to walk,
run and play uggg.
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replied February 1st, 2014
Make sure it is aluminum free baking soda
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replied July 23rd, 2007
Baking Soda And Gout
Hi there

I am a genetics professor with polycystic kidney disease, and I do biomedical research at a major university. In the last few years I've had gout problems, and it is getting progressively worse. My diet has always been exemplary (low sodium, low protein), since my father had PKD and we always ate very healthily. My weight is also optimal. However, I haven't gotten enough input from my own physicians on this--they put me on allopurinol, but a low dose because the byproducts can harm the kidneys. It was only marginally helpful. And, as no surprise to you gout sufferers, I drink water like a fish (I estimate 140-160 oz/day).

When it got bad enough I started looking for alternative approaches that would still protect my kidneys, and I came across the baking soda treatment. I found the idea to be very appealing, because from a chemistry and physiology point of view, it makes a ton of sense that pushing the blood to a more basic pH would counteract uric acid crystal formation. I have tried it a couple of times, and it worked great for me.

But an obviously huge concern for a renal patient (and people with cardiac/circulatory disease or chronic hypertension) is the massive dose of sodium. A single Teaspoon of baking soda provides 48% of the USRDA of sodium, so the “recommended” Tsp every 4 hours would lead to 2.5 times the USRDA daily sodium (assuming a missed dose at night), even if the patient is on an extremely low sodium diet otherwise. Such a sodium overdose is a bad idea for people with renal disease, as perpetuating renal function depends on keeping blood pressure low; higher blood pressure can accelerate the progress of renal disease. Given that one of the most common sources of gout is people with renal disease, it is critical to prevent them from ingesting too much sodium.

So I gave this much thought. I was convinced that the buffering activity of the bicarbonate was the critical factor. Further, I suspect that in a large number of gout patients, gouty arthritis is a combination of slightly lowered blood pH, elevated urate, decreased circulation and perhaps architecture of extremity joints. And perhaps certain medications can exacerbate some of these traits. This would explain why a horrendous diet can cause gout (but not necessarily!), but also explain why many (but not all!) renal patients experience gout, and furthermore why some non-renal patients with great diets experience gout.

After doing extensive research on blood buffering, I realized that baking soda is very much a sub-optimal agent to use, primarily because of the sodium (though the cost can't be beat!) There are other sources of bicarbonate; the simplest of these are different bicarbonate salts: potassium or magnesium bicarbonate should buffer just as well, and not be subject to anywhere near the risks of sodium bicarbonate (though I should note that high levels of any salt can be dangerous for certain people, especially those with complicating heart, circulation or kidney disorders. So consult your doctors!). Even calcium carbonate (i.e. Tums or other stomach antacids) is a possibility, though such a high percentage of the mass is calcium that one might get into issues of calcium over-dose without getting enough carbonate. From a pharmacological point of view, balancing the right amount of carbonate with the minimum potential side effects is the trick. Since no studies have been done, the right combination is still unknown, and one should proceed with great caution, and under the supervision of a qualified physician. But one possibility is to decrease the amount of sodium from baking soda by supplementing with other sources of carbonate buffer. To calculate the amount of any salt that is bicarbonate, refer to the periodic table or consult a physician.

I consulted a great friend of mine from graduate school who is now a nephrologist (he has an MD/PhD and is practicing medicine). As you may know, there are few who understand the flow of salts in the body better than a nephrologist, since kidney function is mostly an issue of salt and fluid flow. He pointed out that there are other, better bases than bicarbonate to use. For example, salts of citrate (sodium, potassium, or magnesium) should buffer just as well. In fact, potassium citrate is a mild base that is converted to bicarbonate in the liver, as are other salts of organic acids (for example, potassium lactate or potassium succinate), so essentially it is just another way of ingesting bicarbonate. In principle, any of these has the potential to counteract gout just as well as baking soda, and as long as non-sodium salts are used, the issue of sodium toxicity is avoided. My hunch is that a combination of salts is best: for example, low levels of baking soda supplemented by potassium or magnesium salts of citrate, lactate or succinate are the best bet. Personally, I am going to conduct an experiment on myself with potassium and magnesium citrate (since, as a renal patient, I should avoid sodium entirely). Obviously, as with any recommended treatment, I will consult my physicians first.

I should add one additional point. There is not a single effective dose for all gout sufferers, but instead people with different severity of gout probably need different doses. Consequently, I strongly recommend to all sufferers, especially those sticking with baking soda or other sodium salts, that you bring your dose down to the “as needed” level. In other words, do what I am starting to do: use only the level and frequency of treatment required to deal with YOUR gout. Ingesting a large amount of any salt is a somewhat risky prospect, so to minimize your risk, it follows that you should limit your intake. By using far less baking soda than JJY2 recommends, I have greatly limited my gout. When I start feeling a little stiffness in my left ankle or right big toe (my typical gout spots), then I take some baking soda, and that seems to work fine for several days. By my calculation, I am taking more than 15 times less baking soda than recommended. But this is just my gout, and yours may be different. As always, CONSULT YOUR PHYSICIAN!!!

Furthermore, people should make sure to drink plenty of water. I know gout patients are used to this, but just because your gout is “cured” does not mean you are off the hook with regard to water. High intake of any salt functions as a diuretic, so you excrete a lot of water. Consequently, you can get dehydrated when pursuing a treatment like this, and it behooves people to make sure to get adequate fluid intake. And I recommend continuing the anti-gout lifestyle, including a low-purine diet and avoiding diuretics like caffeine, to minimize the amount of anti-gout agent you take. Finally, if you have advanced kidney disease, or other diseases sensitive to levels of various salts, please be very careful! Abnormal salt or water intake can be extremely dangerous, especially if you are on dialysis or getting to that stage. One should coordinate this treatment with your physician and monitor key signs as carefully as you would during treatment with a potent prescription drug. Just because things are sold without prescription, or in a grocery store, does not mean that they aren’t dangerous when ingested at high levels!
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Users who thank Wormboy for this post: retrorose  Curtis721  dazshaw 

replied March 14th, 2012
I find this to be a huge blessing to have people like you all willing to share your expertise with others. Thank you. I will have many question regarding things come across trying to help others. I will my sister of the Christian faith about this. She suffers from gout and my dad also. Thanks again.
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replied July 24th, 2007
Experienced User
Thanks for the very useful info.

The dosage for baking soda in my webpage was obtained from Arm & Hammer and other reputable websites. It is meant to be the maximum dosage for otherwise healthy people during bad gout attacks. As said in my webpage, the users are recommended to study the side effects of BS and have their doctors' permissions before trying.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a good replacement for baking soda in alkalizing the body fluids. As given below, the capacity of the blood to hold sodium (Na) is 30, 40, or more, times greater than that of the other major electrolytes: potassium (K), calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg). That means we can't change the pH much by taking safe amounts of potassium, calcium and magnesium salts of bicarbonate, citrate, gluconate ...

------------------------------------------ -----------------
Electrolyte..........................Daily supplement
[normal range
in blood(mEq/L)]
------------------------------------------ -----------------
Sodium (135.0~145.0)# 217...mEq (1 tsp......5g BS)
................................434...mEq (2 tsp.....10g BS)
................................761...mEq (3.5 tsp 17.5g BS)
Potassium (3.5~5.0)#......2.1 mEq ( 80 mg 2.3% DV)
Calcium... (2.1~ 2.6)#...12.5 mEq (500 mg 12.5% DV)
Magnesium(1.4 ~ 2.3)#...4.2 mEq (100 mg, 25.0% DV)
------------------------------------------ -----------------

Overdose of potassium can cause serious medical conditions including irregular heartbeat; slow, weak, or absent of pulse. I wouldn't experiment with potassium intake regardless of the conditions of my heart and kidneys. It's too dangerous and the amount of pH it can raise is almost zero.

Deficient kidneys can't excrete electrolytes properly such that the electrolytes will accumulate in the blood to cause serious health problems. If I had deficient kidneys, I wouldn't experiment with Na, K, Ca, Mg intake without being able to monitoring their blood & urine levels very closely.

Take care.
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replied March 25th, 2011
Taking baking soda
I didn't recall I was already a "registered user" to this site so I couldn't respond to the writer. I found the information the man shared most interesting and helpful. Very well expressed since he is well educated.

Thank you.
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replied December 2nd, 2007
Control My Gout
Please go to the Icuredmygout.org noted on this page, for the best relief hundreds of us have received. He is the "gout guru" for home remedy relief and has great advice and safe info to help you with a great malady. I'm thankful for his site.
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replied February 5th, 2008
I succesfully used famotidine
I have had gout for 17 years and tried everything from NSAIDs (Indomethacin helped), allopurinol (reduced uric acid level, but attacks continued) and Colchicine (fairly effective) recently. I still would get about one gout attck a month.

After reading this forum I decided to try alkalizing my body.

To reduce acidity, instead of Sodium bicarb (which I did not want to take regularly, being a cardiac/ blood pressure patient) I tried famotidine. Famotidine is taken to reduce acid production in stomach.

It worked. After years of painful existance I am living comfortably

I have not had a gout attack for about 3 months now. Even the body/joint pains are gone. I think reduction in acidity in the gut somehow reduces body acidity and crystalization of uric acid in joints.
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replied June 11th, 2012
Pepcid and calcium
Can you tell me if the famotidine you took is with or without calcium. I believe pepcid is the name for Famotidine. They have famotidine alone, Pepcid; and Pepcid Complete with famotidine and different concentrations of calcium carbonate I believe and potassium.
I ask you this because calcium overdose can cause ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) inhibition which create many symptoms that are similar to Goute and exhacerbate goute crises. Fructose also appears to be an ATP inhibitor. In fact a low purine diet alone may lack in B12 vitamin which is essential in creating ATP. Thank you.
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replied July 9th, 2008
Folks: I have come back to the web to add my 2 cents worth, but wishing there was more I could do for the gentleman who put up the icuredmygout site. It was one of those too easy and too simple things that didn't cost anything either, so I tried it. I had been fighting recurring bouts of gout and had been to the doc and gotten the usual round of meds, but they were almost as bad as the gout pain. And they didnt CURE it, just treated it. So I read the site, and took the half tsp several times the first day, and then twice a day for two additional days. I knew in 24 hours that something was up, as I felt the circulation in my toes, and the joints loosened up. I have now been pain and symptom free over a month, and had come back to read more and see if there was a general agreement on a maintenance level of BS. It is remarkable how this has worked. I am on Allupinorol also, and my last UA level was a 5.0, so that also is good, but had been experiencing episodes for months WHILE on the drug. So it is certainly no panacea! The biggest problem so far? telling people about this, and watching the look on their faces - (another poor old delusional old man who thinks he cured himself) - that look. Sir - the web site guy - I wd appreciate your comments. And thanks.
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replied July 9th, 2008
Folks: I have come back to the web to add my 2 cents worth, but wishing there was more I could do for the gentleman who put up the icuredmygout site. It was one of those too easy and too simple things that didn't cost anything either, so I tried it. I had been fighting recurring bouts of gout and had been to the doc and gotten the usual round of meds, but they were almost as bad as the gout pain. And they didnt CURE it, just treated it. So I read the site, and took the half tsp several times the first day, and then twice a day for two additional days. I knew in 24 hours that something was up, as I felt the circulation in my toes, and the joints loosened up. I have now been pain and symptom free over a month, and had come back to read more and see if there was a general agreement on a maintenance level of BS. It is remarkable how this has worked. I am on Allupinorol also, and my last UA level was a 5.0, so that also is good, but had been experiencing episodes for months WHILE on the drug. So it is certainly no panacea! The biggest problem so far? telling people about this, and watching the look on their faces - (another poor old delusional old man who thinks he cured himself) - that look. Sir - the web site guy - I wd appreciate your comments. And thanks.
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replied July 15th, 2008
Experienced User
Hi mrbill,

Thanks for your post. I am very glad you have successfully treated your gout with baking soda.

I am glad you keep your blood uric acid level at 5.0 mg/dL. As to the baking soda dosage, I do not have additional info other than what's said in my webpage. I would watch out for its possible side effects, such as high blood pressure and edema, and use it carefully.

Take care.
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replied July 21st, 2008
"Normal" Urine pH Reading, Best Urine pH Testing Strip
All & JYY2:

I've read most of the posts on this site. I have also printed and studied all of the information on JYY2's ICMG site and am deeply appreciative of all of this information and shared experience (even including the recurring and continual reminder on this board about sleep apenea).

I was diagnosed five years ago, have an active lifestyle, low BP, and a family history (Grandfather had gout). Since being diagnosed I beginning to notice an increased frequency of attacks during a year - I'm now up to about three or four a year.

The BS method of alkalizing was new for me and I just found this during my most recent attack. Some questions:

1. What is the best brand of Urine pH testing stuff to buy?
2. What is the preferred pH range to see for daily pH urine tests?
3. I've seen contradictions on the acidity vs. the alkaline measurements of different foods. Is there a simple list somewhere?
4. Is there a recommended Gout Sufferrer's Cookbook?
5. Finally, I usually exercise vigorously and frequently (when not sufferring from gout) and have heard that lactic acid from the exercise can bring on an attack. Will BS also reduce this type of non-food acid?

Thanks

civa
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replied February 22nd, 2009
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! thanks so much!
It worked!!!

I had the pain of gout almost constanty for about 6 weeks. i've had it on and of for about 3 years now. i just put up with it but gradualy it was changing my life for the worst (not going out-grumpy all the time). i didn't want to tell anyone as its kinda my own fault as i drink quite a lot. I finanly went to the doctors and quite frankly they were rubbish. one even laughed at me..... the next put me on these horrid tablets that made me sick and didn't offer any relief!!!! (***holes) anyway i tried the baking soda and almost a few hours later i was feeling slightly better. 2 days later i was cured (i hope) and now its been 10 weeks pain free!!!!! I'm certain the baking soda cured me, and i'm so happy i want to tell everyone who is suffering to just try it. you have nothing to loose. and i might add that i didn't take as much as the info says to (i was dubious). what i did....

1/8 teaspoon of baking soda in a little water. (after lunch)

then same again next morning. drink a pint of water too if you can handle it.


i repeated for 3 days but on the third day i was allready feeling better..... thats kinda it......... i also recomend mixing ibuprofen and paracetamol to ease pain fast. i feel the baking soda was helped by taking these. i was on 800mg of ibuprofen and 1000mg paracetamol TWICE a day. now i take nothing... i'm feeling great. ironicly as i'm in painless and go out more. my drinking is down loads too. anyway thanks to whoever came up with the cure and shared it with the world. i'm here to say that it worked for me and if you have gout, give it a bash and spread the word.


Jimbo
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replied June 4th, 2009
hello,

I would like to thank everyone on this topic. I have gout pains and family history of gout, along with blood pressure/heart desease. I'm a former athlete and started getting gout pains in both my big toes about a couple of years ago. First talking to my doctor he thought it was activity related etc. but it kept coming back. I used the combination of low doses of baking soda (~1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per day) at bed time, drinking concentrated cheery juice (natural with no sugars etc. added) and drinking lots of water and fluids. In the last 4-6 months I have had no more gout pains in my toes and have been able to workout at very good levels with no bad side effects. Initially I felt the effects within 24 hours.

thank you again
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replied July 7th, 2009
Another great way to lower your bodys' Ph (Acidity Level) and is much safer, is to eat Melon.....any kind , they all have Alkalizing properties and tastes better and safer than Baking (Bicarbonate)Soda.

Also, take Celery Seed extract to help flush out the uric acid.
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replied September 6th, 2009
Gout pain
Frankly, I was a skeptic....I had tried a massive dose of sodium bicarb and it seemed to make things worse. That is a warning. I think big doses can make the condition worse, probably because of edema. But I just had a flare up before labor day, and I was really depressed (as it is a beer and beef weekend). After 24 hours of doing baking soda, my joint pain subsided. A 1/2 to a full teaspoon, I mix it with medamucil (more for taste than anything else)...every couple of hours when things are bad. I am going to try twice a day. Listen, yesterday, I could not walk...now I am (not quite) pain free....
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replied September 8th, 2009
anyone have a suggestion for getting rid of tophi?
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replied September 24th, 2009
Gout & Kidney stones?
I have just had my first 2 gout attacks.

The last 3 years I have passed (a lot) of painful kidney stones (uratic acid type)

Do you think the low dose BC method will help or hurt my making so many stones or kidney health?

I do drink several bourbon & cokes every other day -Yes bad for uratic and liver.

Thanks Rich
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replied September 24th, 2009
I'm glad everyone is getting success.

May I just mention STRESS is a huge factor in most health problems, including gout.
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replied September 25th, 2009
Gout pain
When I suspect or feel "gout pain" coming, I always look or check my retina and after some time whith the right light-/darkness I can see sharp, needle-like crystals acumulating. It doesn�´t happen every time but when this phenomen occurs I cure myself with lots of whater and 1/4 teaspoon of Bicarbonat.
Then I check my retina again every morning to see if this needles are decreasing or not. So far (ten years) this treatment ha cured me.

I always take my medicin 2 tab Probe(ne)cid 0,5g per day


Hu_man
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replied January 15th, 2012
How not to live with gout
I got on here to find some answers.Your entry about seeing objects behind your retna help a lot.The VA has never gave me a straight answer about what they were other than blood vains exploding.They have mis diagnosed me to many times and every time they send me a perscription i give them to poor people who can't afford the perscriptions.When i was drinking beers i had some bouts with gout.When i stopped it stopped.I just recently got over the flue and the gout reapeared.I did the baking soda and it went away again.I'm going to start using bob's red mill baking soda because i don't believe what arm n hammer says about their product.Thankfully the grocer has this product.I think using something more natural would be much better though.I've been studying something for a year now and it is called hemp seed oil with no side affects.I hadn't had a gout attack in years until recently with the flue.This hemp seed oil put my arthritis at bay for a year now.No pain at all for a year.I'm going to get another bottle of it from amazon and use it for the next attack and see what happens.I hardly ever eat steak.My dad ate steak so much it made me sick watching him.He died at 54.I'm 63 and have changed my way of eating because of this fact.I miss eating t bones though.If the hemp oil works for the gout i'll come back and tell you either way.Thank you and God Bless.
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replied October 6th, 2009
Sounds like a good natural way for gout cases.
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replied October 29th, 2009
I'm so glad there is a forum like this for people who suffer from gout.

I can honestly say that the baking soda did help me but I also realize that gout is not just problem and reaction, problem and reaction.

Gout is a practice. A practice of maintaining a balanced healthy lifestyle for yourself.

Eating right, maintaining a healthy weight, exercising, drinking plenty of fluids can solve your gout problems.

I was very shocked to see that the original poster of this thread said he still wants his occassional beer and to eat red meat...all I have to say is...DUDE. have you learned nothing form all of your pain? lose the bad stuff if you want to be better, don't look for a quick fix, because there are none.

I'm actually glad I got gout or else I'd still be eating all that meat that I used to, and I got gout at the tender age of 20. So not fun. So far I've only had one major gout attack this year and it was because I went to a Japanese restaurant. NOT GOOD.

Anyways, I don't take the baking soda treatment everyday but I do it every once in a while to balance out the system.

I will try the magnesium and potassium bicarbonates per the research said in this thread.

Thanks to everybody here and keep the support alive!
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replied November 5th, 2011
Foods
What's wrong w going to Japanese restaurant
for gout ? Purines ?
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