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Constitution V Goverment

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FISHX

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Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 920
Location: UK

Posted: 03-29-05 13:23pm

bd1012 wrote:

fishx.. The resaon micheal is her guardian is because he is the person most likely to know her wishes. She doensn't have to have said outright " you know if I was ever pvs.. Don't let me live" and outline all the steps she wants taken.. A simple "i would never want to live like that" when the subject of people living in a pvs state was brought up.. Would do. I personally don't know what she wants so I really don't know what should be done as long as it's what she would've wanted. I did hear from bf the other day that she had some type of living will where it said that she didn't want to live in that state so if that's true.. Then we have the answer right there but I don't know if it's true or not.

if that was true and she had a living will then why havent the courts, doctors or terris solicitors seen it.

To state that she doesn't have to say she wants to die is ridiculouse one throw away comment should not be enough to sentence this woman to death.

Terri is. N .O.T in pvs she is aware of her enviroment and communicates to friends and family with different responses.

steen

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Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Upper Midwest

Posted: 03-29-05 15:14pm

fishx wrote:

are we still so sure that anerexia nervosa was to blame for terri's heart attack?

yes. Claims by non-treating physicians in the face of numerous actual evaluations of treating physicians to the contrary really do not carry that much weight.

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are we still convinced that michael is such a loving husband I certianly am not.

of course you aren't. A spouse can speak for their partner, except when he/she speaks other than what you want, because then he just needs to be willified. The schindlers and their spokespersons have shown an unpresedented willingness to lie and exagurate, as well as attempting character assasination. Regardless of this extremely dishonest prolife approach, the courts consistently have looked at the facts and discarded all the lies and prolife dishonesty that has been spewed forth.

steen

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Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Upper Midwest

Posted: 03-29-05 15:27pm

fishx wrote:

are you also aware that the reason terri sufferd anerexia nervosa was because of the constant physical and emotional abuse she suffered at michael's hand's?

really? And you can prove this? Certainly, this flies in the face of the reports of the schindlers and schiavo getting very well along initially, until schiavo finally accepted that she wouldn't get well, several years later.

So no, we were not aware of that lie. Do you have anything that is not from the schindler lie site?

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this is a very distressing case for the schindlers as they know michael has ulterior motives for wanting terri dead.

nah, they just lie to that extend.

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i also noticed that you seem to think that terri is in pvs but she isn't she is aware and communicative with her family and doctors.

not according to her doctors, she doesn't. Again, we only have the schindlers' lies and the now proven dishonesty of their radical catholic munk spokesperson who have demonstrated a rabid desire for exaggerations and lies to fit his political theocratic agenda.

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there is also the question as to why michael waited 7 years to make his wifes so called wishes known?

ah,m you mean until he finally accepted that he couldn't get his belowed wife back?

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why wait until she became communicative before he stated her wish to die?

she is. Of course, not communicative in any meaningful way, shindler and catholic lies none withstanding. Are you by any chance referring to when the munk claimed that she had expressed a desire to live by "interpreting" her grunts and random vociferations? Yeah, he is also the one who claimed that she wawed to him the other day. Such despicable liars seem to be the only spokespersons that the radical prolifers can gather

FISHX

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Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 920
Location: UK

Posted: 03-29-05 15:30pm


Actualy steen no a spouse should never be able to speak for a partner that is how country's get screwed up. You say the schindlers are exagerating can you prove that? Why have you put this down to the schindlers being pro life? I think that this is more about them trying to save thier daughter from being killed in a horiffic way than about what their political stance is as for the courts well they wouldn't know justice if it bit them on the a** also every physicians oppinion should be taken into consideration if they have had contact with terri. Steen you seem really hypocritcal to me all this coming from the man who opposes the death penalty............Forgive me for being slightly confused.

steen

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Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Upper Midwest

Posted: 03-29-05 15:31pm

fishx wrote:

steen correct me if i'm wrong but didn't you state to me that you do not beleive in the death penalty?

as this has nothing to do with capital punishment, prolife hyperbole none withstanding, it is irrelevant that I don't believe in the death penalty.

We are talking about terri's choice, as has been amply proven to the courts, the schindlers lies none withstanding.

foreverblue

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Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 577

Posted: 03-29-05 15:33pm

jlee77 wrote:

steen, you are the most paranoid person i've ever met.
You think everyone lies. Do you call your wife a liar when she doesn't agree with your selfish views?

everyones a liar except for steen no matter what

steen

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Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Upper Midwest

Posted: 03-29-05 15:34pm

jlee77 wrote:

fishx wrote:

sorry I don't care if I do get loads for this but american law sucks and I think the guardian law is just pathetic in the fact that it gives the husband the right to decide whether or not his spouse lives or dies.

i agree. I think the parents should have more of a say in a person's life because w/o them that person wouldn't exist anyhow.

so when your spouse, who knows you the best, decides that you are prolife and want to stay on, then your parents who feel miserable about the whole deal will push to have your ventilator stopped, and they should just have that power, right?

You are essentially saying that the parents have more power over what happens to a person than does that person's spouse. Nice devaluation of marriage that prolifers now are pushing.

FISHX

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 920
Location: UK

Posted: 03-29-05 15:35pm

steen wrote:

fishx wrote:

are you also aware that the reason terri sufferd anerexia nervosa was because of the constant physical and emotional abuse she suffered at michael's hand's?

Quote:

this is a very distressing case for the schindlers as they know michael has ulterior motives for wanting terri dead.

nah, they just lie to that extend.

Quote:

i also noticed that you seem to think that terri is in pvs but she isn't she is aware and communicative with her family and doctors.

Quote:

there is also the question as to why michael waited 7 years to make his wifes so called wishes known?

ah,m you mean until he finally accepted that he couldn't get his belowed wife back?

Quote:

why wait until she became communicative before he stated her wish to die?

i have one thing to say to you steen you have proven you do not check sources when given also you never actualy provide any sources so come on provide sources to your claims I have provided sources for mine they are all in the link to terrisfight.Net including video footage proving terri is not pvs.

Time to put your money where your mouth is steen sources to your claoms please,

foreverblue

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Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 577

Posted: 03-29-05 15:38pm


Time to put your money where your mouth is steen sources to your claoms please come on sweetheart you know he would'nt know proof or evidence if it jumped up in front of him.

FISHX

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 920
Location: UK

Posted: 03-29-05 15:41pm


Ahhh now give him a chance he may surprise us.

steen

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Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Upper Midwest

Posted: 03-29-05 15:41pm

fishx wrote:

sandy to answer your first question yes I was a macmillan nurse for 5 years I have seen people die it is not as peaceful as you are making out and there is also a big difference terri is not terminaly ill nor is she pvs.

ah, you saw that on the schindler lie site? Sure, yup!

Quote:

it has been stated by the medical proffesion that there are people out there worse of than terri ie;stephen hawkins and the late christopher reed should we have starved and dehydrated them to death?

hmm, given that both of them have/had a functioning, non-atrophied neocortex, that claim would be an outright lie.

Quote:

do you actualy know anything about terri?

you obviously don't, seemingly getting all your info from a biased prolife lie site set up by the lying schindlers.

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do you realise that there is evidence that terri's heart attack was not brought on by anorexia nervosa but more likely by strangulation.

no there isn't, schindler lies none withstanding.

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i think the fact that michael is demanding that terri be cremated immediatly after death is very suspicious especialy considering terri wanted to be buried not cremated.

that would be after the authopsy that he has insisted on, right? The authopsy that will show the brain atrophy and the lack of strangulation. Careful what you ask for here. When the authopsy shows that everything the schindlers have claimed are lies, then what? Will you then work on restoring the reputation that you have tried to tear down through pushing their lies? Or will you not care because he does not have the same political leaning as you do? I will bet on the latter. I will bet that when the authopsy results finally prove all these claims to be outright lies, you will do nothing to make up for the hatemongering that you bought into and have helped spread.

I will of course look for your appology to michael and your condemnation of the schindlers and their prolife handlers' lies, but I am not holding my breath.

On the other hand, maybe you actually have integrity and will do so? I know the other mprolifers here wouldn't, but there once was a glimmer of integrity in you. Lets see if it has died out or not.

Quote:

as for not believing everything you read neither do I but most of the shindlers evidence is video evidence so I do beleive what my eyes can see.

all of which have been highly and selectively edited, or did you miss that criticism? Yes, prolifers are very prone to lie with video, as "the silent scream" has amply proven.

Quote:

we have seen terri tracking a baloon with her eyes we have seen terri laughing at jokes told to her.

we have seen video being made to look that way.

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for christs sake she can even follow simple requests such as opening her eyes when asked to or following someone around a room with her eyes she certianly isn't in pvs and does not deserve nor want to die.

hmm, before you claimed that she wasn't bedridden and could walk around. Now making claims about reflexes and prolife video editing trickey somehow is evidence? Where is the video of her walking? No? Hmm... Makes you wonder about all the information you are posting about terri, almost as if you are her treating physician.

Quote:

you say you are pro choice but you don't seem to care about terri's choice.

she made her choice known to her husband, the person that is closest to her.

Quote:

why are you really so dispassionate that you think the choice should be michaels even though the evidence points to him having ulterior motives for wanting terri dead?

"pointing to" yes, more prolife lies and hate mongering. We sure have seen that a lot over the years. Sorry that you guys have no credibility left in that area per many years of lies and distortions.

steen

Extremely EHEALTHy

Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Upper Midwest

Posted: 03-29-05 15:54pm

fishx wrote:

[ have one thing to say to you steen you have proven you do not check sources when given also you never actualy provide any sources so come on provide sources to your claims I have provided sources for mine they are all in the link to terrisfight.

rotflmao. Yes, another lie site set up by prolife liars as so many others are. Yup, good one. Perhaps you should have paid attention when those who are actually the treating physicians have spoken up? Nah, because they don't support your claims or the outright lies spewed by the schindlers. No, I would not use terrisfight as soutrce for anything. Find me independent verification of your claims, or I will just know that it is the typical prolife lies recycled again.

Quote:

net including video footage proving terri is not pvs.

i have seen the heavily edited video fottage. It doesn't prove any of what you claim. And notably, what is not on video is as telling about the schindlers' lies; all these claims about her ongooing abilities that just happened to never have been video taped despite the claims that they were intact abilities? Terri walking. Terri wawing. Terri talking and jokjing with people..... Nope, not one video to that extend, yet all these claims of how she can do all that all the time? Stinking liars the schindlers, and the prolife radical liars that use them as pawns in their political sideshow.

Quote:

time to put your money where your mouth is steen sources to your claoms please,

the medical testemonies of the treating physicians are out there. They disprove every one of the schindlers unproven lying allegations.

Prolife should be ashamed of making a political spectable out of a private medical decision of a family. But then, we have seen that prolife has no shame and will not back away from any lie as long as it furthers their political agenda. Nice display of conservative behavior.

FISHX

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 920
Location: UK

Posted: 03-29-05 15:55pm


I will burn in hell before I ever apologise to the likes of micheal schiavo. So steen still no sources just a lot of ranting you really are begining to prove right the very people you wish to prove wrong. Last time I asked for sources people said you wouldn't give any but I said i'm sure he will but guess what....You stayed of the board until the post was forgotten oh well it was a stupid mistake to make. By the way steen i'm happy with my integrity as is everyone that knows me so sorry you can't hold it to ransom.

steen

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Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Upper Midwest

Posted: 03-29-05 15:59pm

fishx wrote:

i will burn in hell before I ever apologise to the likes of micheal schiavo.

of course. When all of schindlers claims are proven lies, and when all the false claims that you have sucked up and repeated are exposed, then you do not have enough integrity to appologize for the hatemongering and lies that you participated in.

Not that it surprises me, as prolife of course have shown a complete lack of integrity.

Quote:

so steen still no sources just a lot of ranting you really are begining to prove right the very people you wish to prove wrong.

i am looking. I am getting the legal citations from the various cases, just have to find them first.

Now, where is your evidence from a reliable, non-biased site (no, the schindlers' prolife site is rather biased and full of lies and misrepresentations, so if that is your evidence, then I can go to the jay leno show for my equally credible evidence)

Quote:

by the way steen i'm happy with my integrity as is everyone that knows me so sorry you can't hold it to ransom.

the integrity that shows you refusing to owe up to your claims even if they are proven outright lies? Yup, no surprise there.

foreverblue

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Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 577

Posted: 03-29-05 16:04pm


Why are you even arguing with this fool,you know what will happen same as always he saysi am looking for the evidenceand never comes up with it then if you pull him sandyallen will pop up saying hes a doctor he hasnt got all the time you have,though he is on 4 forums I know of,forget him he is a joke and everyone knows it now.

sandyallen

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Posted: 03-29-05 17:01pm


I sure do care what terri wants. You know we all have second thoughts when preparing for death, radiation chemo, surgery. My husband knows what I want, my Dr. Knows what I want and it is no body elses business because it is written down and I carry it with me wherever I go and it is legal and it is not a living will, I always talk to my patients and clients about having this on file. My patients have died in comfort because this is what they wanted and I have had to jump on some dr's. To make sure this was done. I even had one guy pull his own plug because he did not want his family to have to fight to keep him alive. You know that family does not want to lose a family member most of the time. None of us here knows what was written or what was said. I never said anything about not caring for terri's choice, geesh, this is why I am pro-choice, I am for choice. No, I do not know terri personally. I am not just talking about terri, I am talking about hospice situations that I have dealt with. So don't be judging someone that you know nothing about. Thanks, sandy

sandyallen

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Foreverblue Posted: 03-29-05 17:25pm


You do not know what I am going to say, so please quit lying! You are the one that is acting like an fool. Thanx. Sandy

steen

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Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Upper Midwest

Re: Foreverblue Posted: 03-29-05 17:50pm


Sandy, I don't think they will get it. Their motivation is purely political (regardless of how disgusting it is to play prolife politics with terri's personal life and circumstance) and as such, facts and reality matters little to their zeal to fit the situation to their agenda. We see it with schiavo, we see it with prolifers, we see it with creationists, all often being the same crowd, so we really shouldn't be surprised.

foreverblue

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Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 577

Posted: 03-30-05 06:35am


Still no proof what a surprise,what makes me laugh is the hypocrisy of it all calling other people anti sematic whilst spouting anti christian garbage all over the place,steen really is a joke and the biggest hypocrite.

FISHX

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 920
Location: UK

Posted: 03-30-05 09:39am


Http://codeblueblog.Blogs.Com/code blueblog/2005/03/csi_medblogs_co.Html even more contradicting evidence steen now can I please have some sources to your claims thank you. Oh yes please remember to decapitalise.

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