Abortion Debate Forum - Physical Health Risks of Termination page 10
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Physical Health Risks of Termination

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FISHX

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Posted: 02-04-05 12:50pm

gero wrote:
steen wrote:
gero wrote:
the whole thing with abortion is selfish. You women are only thinking of yourselves when you do it and all you are trying to do is get rid of something that isn't convenient for you.
oh, crap. I can't believe we have to go over that again. Even jlee had to admit how silly that argument is. But let me help you. Lots of kids wait to be adopted, yet you selfishly insist on having your own kid instead of giving a home to those already waiting for one.



That is selfish, shame on you.... Etc.....



You were saying...?
i'm all for adoption as opposed to abortion. That is one of the main arguments for prolifers:adoption vs. Abortion.



i am also all for adoption but I don,t see it as an easy way out.
I can,t imagine carrying a baby/fetus for 42 weeks and then being able to give it up.
I am far to selfish for that i,m sorry to say.

And not even close to being brave enough.
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Gero

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Posted: 02-04-05 12:54pm

All i'm saying is that if a woman came to me and was trying to decide between abortion or adoption, as a prolifer, I would encourage her to put the baby up for adoption if she felt that she wasn't in the right circumstances to raise it.
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FISHX

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Posted: 02-04-05 13:04pm

gero wrote:
all i'm saying is that if a woman came to me and was trying to decide between abortion or adoption, as a prolifer, I would encourage her to put the baby up for adoption if she felt that she wasn't in the right circumstances to raise it.




i completly agree with you but just pointing out it isn,t that easy to adopt out a baby/fetus that you have carried for 42 weeks but that could be just me I am a selfish coward when it comes to my kids their mine all mine lol

i only wish that adoption was the answer to termination.
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foreverblue

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Posted: 02-04-05 13:27pm

gero wrote:
all i'm saying is that if a woman came to me and was trying to decide between abortion or adoption, as a prolifer, I would encourage her to put the baby up for adoption if she felt that she wasn't in the right circumstances to raise it.




not being funny or anything don,t you think that you should really be impartial when it comes to advising people,i know I cannot do the job as I could,nt be impartial
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Kourtney08

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Posted: 02-04-05 16:17pm

Quote:
just because the pregnancy was considered an inconvenience to you doesn't give you the right to take the baby's life.


oh you bet your damn ass it does. I have the right to my body, no one else. Not even a tiny fetus. Sorry.

Quote:
kourtney, does that "thing" or baby whatever you choose to call it have a voice to stop the mother from aborting it? No! It is at the mercy of what the mother and abortion doctors do to it. Doesn't that make you feel the least bit guilty? Knowing that you are aborting an innocent life that has no say so in what you do to it? I think it is so inhumane that you think that just because you have been around for years and this baby is a new "thing" that it doesn't have the same rights as you do. It is still a human life for heavens sake! I don't care if it was conceived a month ago and you are 46, it still has the same rights. Just because you say it doesn't because you want to rid yourself of the guilt of aborting doesn't mean you are right. It's just a convenient justification for you to abort.



thing? Im sorry, can you show me where I called it a thing, because if I did that was a mistake. Its at the mercy, please. It doesn't have a clue whats going on, before, or after.

It doesn't have the same rights. I have the right to decide what happens with my body, if I don't want to go through a pregnancy thats going to change my body, I don't have to. No, it doesn't have the same rights. Sorry. You're mistaken on that one.

If I was going to abort, I would have to be 100% sure, therefor there'd be no "guilt." this is my opinion, don't put it down like its garbage, this is what I believe in and im allowed to believe in it without being belittled by you. We've talked about this on this board a lot. If you're going to debate, also respect other peoples opinions. I respect yours, I just don't agree with it.

People who try and force their beliefs on another person, are really only insecure in there beliefs.

By the way, i've never had an abortion, I have a beautiful baby girl whose 3 months old today! But if I happened to get pregnant again, while using birth control, I have the choice to abort, and that my friend, has nothing to do with you. Its none of your buisness what someone else does with their body.
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a1mmee

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Have An Opinion - Some Women Dont Have a Choice
Posted: 02-04-05 20:00pm

Hi - I read the posts and there are strong points of view - let me tell you I had an abortion 6 years ago, I really didnt have a choice, I often wonder what would have happened if I hadnt had it done. It was the most difficult choice I had to make, im an indian woman, pregnancy before marraige was a no go. The boyfriend, well of course he would support my choice - but added 'we cant go to our families....Blah, blah blah' he was right and the laughable thing was I did not have a choice. My experience was harrowing at best. I was confused and too ashamed to share my pregnancy details with anyone incase it got to my parents. I did 3 checks each time knowing the result, I went to a clinic for advise and she worked out my dates and then proceeded in telling me the development stage of the embryo, stuff which threw me. Every night and day whilst pregnant I suffered extreme pain, so who knows I may have lost the child. Anyway my then boyfriend bought the best money could buy, I had the consultations and the date was booked.

Well it was supposed to be at 830 in the morning, but they lost my blood sample so I had to wait. Even more worse was the consultation on the day, I was shufled to a room where the doc just did the old scan thingy, no real communication, he had the screen towards me so of course all that stayed in my head was 8 weeks 5 days and the blob that was my baby. I was in shock, then it dawned on me what am I doin?
I was then shuffled into a room where a admin person asked for the balance, and whether they could use the embryo for research, I barely mustered energy to say anything I was still in shock. I was then taken into a room with 3 beds. By now it was 9am and the other women in the room had already had the 10 procedure done. I shut myself in my area, drew the curtain round me. As I lay there the director of the hospital was showing visitors around discussing the colour schemes etc whilst I lay there trying to think of the options I had. I had no option, but all I could see was that blob, my baby. I tried to convince myself that I could runaway my parents would never find me. By now it was 1230 so much for the 830 procedure. I battled in my mind, all those hours all my make believe options - I got off my bed and walked towards the cupboard with my clothes, I convinced my self that I was going to see this through, I was not gonna be judge and jury on my baby's life. As chance would have it the nurse came to take me, it was now my turn. All of a sudden I was the frightened girl I walked to the room, lay on the bed and looked towards the clock. Most the nurses were as chance would have it, indian. The thought I had been aneasthatised so began to discuss the origins of my name and who I could be related to. Next thing you know I lay back in a room with a nurse telling me they needed the bed so I was to leave, it was only 330pm 2.5 hours after a general aneas. I was to leave. But this was when I knew it was too late, I sat in the bathroom and just cried, cried at being weak, crying at killing my baby. It will actually be 7 years on feb 12, I have no kids, the boyfriend ended things shortly after, he has a kid, and always likes to share the joys of being a father, me has no kids, and have been told the chance is remote. It was the hardest time of my life, the biggest decision I had to make, I still feel the pain of that day, I pity any woman with no choice, because many dont have one, regardless of the stigma attatched. Me is laying some ghosts to rest, I get married in 6 weeks and I needed to put this behind me.
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sandyallen

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A1mmee
Posted: 02-05-05 01:35am

We always have a choice. You cannot worry about what others think, feel or say about what we are or what we do, it is your body, your choice and your right. It is not a baby until birth(after it is born). I am not judging you, you did what you felt was right @ the time, things happen for a reason, which we do not always understand the reason. Pregnancy before marriage is generally never good whether you are indian, black, white, purple or whatever but it happens, it is apart of some peoples lives.
There is always a 50% chance of most females becoming pregnant or anything happening, like you said, you might have lost that one by miscarriage, who knows.
It seems to me that you have problems with the abortion but these problems could have been prior to the abortion and the procedure surfaced these problems, have you thought about seeking counseling. A good thing that they have now is emdr, it takes you back to a bad past and allows you to release this situation and it is a great release. Please do not get me wrong, I am not judging you or telling you what to do, or telling you that you are crazy, I am just trying to help you get over this hurdle.
Sincerely,
sandy
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foreverblue

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Posted: 02-05-05 06:16am

A1mmee I read your post and I can understand the position you were put in.I do understand that some women do not have a choice due to family and faith and cultural background,are your family devout muslims?.




Sandyallen it is obvious from your reply that you really do not know how the muslim faith works,have you heard of honour killings.These usually happen to females of the muslim faith who *disgrace* the family,and whilst getting pregnant before marriage is frowned upon in most cultures,it is a virtual death penalty for a muslim woman.So I think that in this case she did not have a choice.
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steen

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Posted: 02-05-05 12:42pm

gero wrote:
steen wrote:
gero wrote:
the whole thing with abortion is selfish. You women are only thinking of yourselves when you do it and all you are trying to do is get rid of something that isn't convenient for you.
oh, crap. I can't believe we have to go over that again. Even jlee had to admit how silly that argument is. But let me help you. Lots of kids wait to be adopted, yet you selfishly insist on having your own kid instead of giving a home to those already waiting for one.

That is selfish, shame on you.... Etc.....

You were saying...?
i'm all for adoption as opposed to abortion. That is one of the main arguments for prolifers:adoption vs. Abortion.
but you are for birth of your own child over adopting another child, who needs a home. That is very selfish of you.

So again, what is it you wanted to say about being selffish?
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steen

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Posted: 02-05-05 12:50pm

[quote="gero"]kourtney, does that "thing" or baby whatever you choose to call it have a voice to stop the mother from aborting it? No!No more than ahydatidiform mole or your fingernail does, no.
Quote:
it is at the mercy of what the mother and abortion doctors do to it. Doesn't that make you feel the least bit guilty?
as guilty as cutting my hair.
Quote:
knowing that you are aborting an innocent life that has no say so in what you do to it?
it is using the woman's body against her use. That makes it an invader, a thief, a squatter. That is not innocent.
Quote:
i think it is so inhumane that you think that just because you have been around for years and this baby is a new "thing" that it doesn't have the same rights as you do.
i think it is inhumane that you so much reject the right of the woman to not be enslaved, that you allow nonsentient tissue to have more rights than she does.
Quote:
it is still a human life for heavens sake!
it is life of human origin, just like your hair or a tumor in your colon. It is not an individual being, however.
Quote:
i don't care if it was conceived a month ago and you are 46, it still has the same rights.
no, it doesn't.
Quote:
just because you say it doesn't because you want to rid yourself of the guilt of aborting doesn't mean you are right.
guilt, what guilt? Did you feel guilty over having a haircut? Why not? You killed living human cells. Shame on you, how could you.
Quote:
it's just a convenient justification for you to abort.
nah. No justification is needed, other than "i don't want to be pregnant." all the antichoice yammering and rhetorics about the embryo or fetus is completely irrelevant.
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steen

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Posted: 02-05-05 12:59pm

gero wrote:
all i'm saying is that if a woman came to me and was trying to decide between abortion or adoption, as a prolifer, I would encourage her to put the baby up for adoption if she felt that she wasn't in the right circumstances to raise it.
ah, but before,you talked about being "selfish" for aborting. Now, if you are not adopting that child or one of the 100,000 kids available for adoption right now, doesn't that make *you* selfish?
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Gero

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Posted: 02-07-05 12:10pm

[quote="steen"]
gero wrote:
kourtney, does that "thing" or baby whatever you choose to call it have a voice to stop the mother from aborting it? No!No more than ahydatidiform mole or your fingernail does, no.

Quote:
it is at the mercy of what the mother and abortion doctors do to it. Doesn't that make you feel the least bit guilty?
as guilty as cutting my hair.

Quote:
knowing that you are aborting an innocent life that has no say so in what you do to it?
it is using the woman's body against her use. That makes it an invader, a thief, a squatter. That is not innocent.

Quote:
i think it is so inhumane that you think that just because you have been around for years and this baby is a new "thing" that it doesn't have the same rights as you do.
i think it is inhumane that you so much reject the right of the woman to not be enslaved, that you allow nonsentient tissue to have more rights than she does.

Quote:
it is still a human life for heavens sake!
it is life of human origin, just like your hair or a tumor in your colon. It is not an individual being, however.

Quote:
i don't care if it was conceived a month ago and you are 46, it still has the same rights.
no, it doesn't.

Quote:
just because you say it doesn't because you want to rid yourself of the guilt of aborting doesn't mean you are right.
guilt, what guilt? Did you feel guilty over having a haircut? Why not? You killed living human cells. Shame on you, how could you.

Quote:
it's just a convenient justification for you to abort.
nah. No justification is needed, other than "i don't want to be pregnant." all the antichoice yammering and rhetorics about the embryo or fetus is completely irrelevant.
steen, you inferiorate me. How can you say that the "fetus" is "invading" the woman's body when she had a hand in creating it? She chose to have sex, whether it was protected sex or not, (but most often unprotected I bet), which in turn can result in a pregnancy. The fetus doesn't create itself. Give me a break! And to compare terminating the fetus' life to getting a haircut is absurd! Again, I don't care what you say, it is wrong to for a woman to terminate a fetus' life. It's no wonder our world has gone to hell with people like you who have such disregard for human life and treat a fetus like it is merely an unwanted piece of trash.
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steen

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Posted: 02-07-05 14:05pm

gero wrote:
steen, you inferiorate me. How can you say that the "fetus" is "invading" the woman's body when she had a hand in creating it?
because it does. If she doesn't welcome it, then its presence is an invasion. She has sex, yes. She does not have a welcoming party for a blastocyst. It implants without her knowledge, support or desire for it to do so. That is invading. If you leave your front door open and somebody walks in, they are still invading.
Quote:
she chose to have sex, whether it was protected sex or not,
irrelevant, as consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy any more than driving is a consent to a traffic accident.
Quote:
(but most often unprotected I bet),
as I have shown before, the last publicized study showed that 58% of the woman who had abortions were trying to prevent pregnancy by using contraception.
Quote:
which in turn can result in a pregnancy.
a risk for an event is not the same as a consent for an event. Otherwise, you are back to consenting to the traffic accident.
Quote:
the fetus doesn't create itself.
quite. And in an unwanted pregnancy, the woman does not give consent to its "creation" nor to its implantation and use of her bodily resources. Thus, it is using her body against her will, just as the intruder walking through your front door.
Quote:
give me a break! And to compare terminating the fetus' life to getting a haircut is absurd!
ah, because you say so, right? It is the removal of live, human, nonsentient cells from your body. No difference at all. That you place more emotional value on one than the other, that is your personal and special bias, and in no way distorts the fact that both really are nothing but live cells without any sentient coherence to them.
Quote:
again, I don't care what you say, it is wrong to for a woman to terminate a fetus' life.
ah, yes. The typical anti-choice "because I say so" utterance. If you don't care what the issue is, why debate at all?

Oh, you want me to acknowledge your reasoning but won't acknowledge mine? Oh, but that would be hypocrisy. Are you a hypocrite?
Quote:
it's no wonder our world has gone to hell with people like you who have such disregard for human life and treat a fetus like it is merely an unwanted piece of trash.
ah, more "because I say so" anti-choice crap. No, I don't "treat a fetus like it is merely an unwanted piece of trash." but if the woman does not want to be pregnant, then there is no difference to her between the embryo or fetus on one hand and trash or even a parasite on the other hand.

But yes, it is no wonder that our world has gone to hell with people like you who treat the woman as a slave whose body you can rule and control for the sake of a piece of non-sentient tissue.
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Kourtney08

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Posted: 02-07-05 19:08pm

Quote:
how can you say that the "fetus" is "invading" the woman's body when she had a hand in creating it?


because if its an (caps) unwanted pregnancy, then thats exactly what its doing. Sorry for ya.

Quote:
she chose to have sex


and? She didn't chose for the condom to break. Does that mean she should be (caps) forced to have a child she doesn't want? And who are you to force a woman to give birth. Thats absolutley disgusting to me. If they're not ready for a child, why would you force them? Can you imagine the hatred they'd feel for that child if they were forced to give birth to it? Can you imagine how that child would be raised? My friend had a baby, and was thinking of getting an abortion, she went there, and then left and didn't get it done. Now shes out having sex, partying, and doign drugs while her daughter is living with the grandmother.

Quote:
(but most often unprotected I bet),


don't make bets on other peoples lives please. Thats inconsiderate.

Quote:
again, I don't care what you say, it is wrong to for a woman to terminate a fetus' life


thats an opinion, not a fact. Sorry. And you're allowed to that opinion. But I as a (caps) woman, who would be the one faced with having to chooe, don't think its wrong. *big smiles*

Quote:
it's no wonder our world has gone to hell with people like you who have such disregard for human life and treat a fetus like it is merely an unwanted piece of trash.


if you're going to debate, then do so as an adult. Please don't throw out insults, thats petty, and definitley not proving a point.

Sometimes that fetus is unwanted, not a "piece of trash" but a fetus. A woman has the right to abort, it is legal, and even if it wasn't it would still happen. So believe in what you want, thats fine. But don't insult people who think differently then you, thats immature, and don't try and push your opinions and beliefs on other people because that only shows me that you're insecure in what you believe in. People are allowed to their opinions, but (caps) everyone, please stop disregarding everyones opinions because its not yours. Thanks.
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FISHX

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Posted: 02-08-05 04:55am

Well said kourtney I completley agree people should n.O.T be getting personal about the opinions of others.
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bd1012

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Posted: 02-08-05 10:44am

What is the deal with the whole "sex is consent to pregnancy" bs? I don't know about you but the fact that i'm on birth control should give you an idea that my womb is not up for rent. I dont' get the shot every 3 months because I like injections.. I do it becuase I obviously don't want to be pregnant.. The only time sex is consent to pregnancy is ttc sex.
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Gero

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Posted: 02-08-05 13:41pm

kourtney08 wrote:
Quote:
how can you say that the "fetus" is "invading" the woman's body when she had a hand in creating it?


because if its an (caps) unwanted pregnancy, then thats exactly what its doing. Sorry for ya.

Quote:
she chose to have sex


and? She didn't chose for the condom to break. Does that mean she should be (caps) forced to have a child she doesn't want? And who are you to force a woman to give birth. Thats absolutley disgusting to me. If they're not ready for a child, why would you force them? Can you imagine the hatred they'd feel for that child if they were forced to give birth to it? Can you imagine how that child would be raised? My friend had a baby, and was thinking of getting an abortion, she went there, and then left and didn't get it done. Now shes out having sex, partying, and doign drugs while her daughter is living with the grandmother.

Quote:
(but most often unprotected I bet),


don't make bets on other peoples lives please. Thats inconsiderate.



Quote:
again, I don't care what you say, it is wrong to for a woman to terminate a fetus' life


thats an opinion, not a fact. Sorry. And you're allowed to that opinion. But I as a (caps) woman, who would be the one faced with having to chooe, don't think its wrong. *big smiles*

Quote:
it's no wonder our world has gone to hell with people like you who have such disregard for human life and treat a fetus like it is merely an unwanted piece of trash.


if you're going to debate, then do so as an adult. Please don't throw out insults, thats petty, and definitley not proving a point.

Sometimes that fetus is unwanted, not a "piece of trash" but a fetus. A woman has the right to abort, it is legal, and even if it wasn't it would still happen. So believe in what you want, thats fine. But don't insult people who think differently then you, thats immature, and don't try and push your opinions and beliefs on other people because that only shows me that you're insecure in what you believe in. People are allowed to their opinions, but (caps) everyone, please stop disregarding everyones opinions because its not yours. Thanks.
i'm disregarding your opinions? Deary you are contradicting yourself because right now you are showing no respect or regard for my personal feelings about the immorality of abortion. But then again, I know that you people who favor abortion get defensive because you want to do whatever it is you want to without having any rules, morals, or standards. I don't think that what I say is immature and you are pushing your immorality on me, so stop it! Also, it is very immature to take the easy way out of taking responsibility for a human life just because it is considered an inconvenience for you. That is like a small child running away when he or she doesn't want to deal with something. I will say it again, it isn't the child's fault that the condom broke or the contraceptive failed, so why should it be punished. And adoption is always an option, but you obviously don't want to put forth the effort to do that. I'm very secure in my viewpoints. The only reason I spew forth the words that I do is because you people make me so angry the way you have complete disregard for human life. And another thing, people who are prochoice are very insecure because they try to chase anyone who is prolife off of this board. They don't want someone on here that actually has standards because that makes them look bad. :roll:
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Kourtney08

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Posted: 02-08-05 14:28pm

Quote:
i'm disregarding your opinions? Deary you are contradicting yourself because right now you are showing no respect or regard for my personal feelings about the immorality of abortion.


show me where i've done this please.


Then you say...

Quote:
but then again, I know that you people who favor abortion get defensive because you want to do whatever it is you want to without having any rules, morals, or standards


hmm, looks like more insults and asumptions. I hate it when people assume. You only make an ass out of yourself.

I have morals and standars. My morals tell me that I shouldn't but my nose into places they don't belong. That means telling a woman what she should do with (caps) her body. I think men that try and force woman to go through with abortions are controlling, and abusive. Period.

Quote:
I don't think that what I say is immature and you are pushing your immorality on me, so stop it!


oh grow up. You were being immature, you're making assumptions instead of trying to say you're opinion, you're making pro-lifers look really bad, and I know they're some good ones here. So you stop!

[quote]also, it is very immature to take the easy way out of taking responsibility for a human life[quote]

actually no, its not immature in the slightest. Do you realize how hard of a choice it is to make? Easy my ass. Its easy for a man to sit back and force a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy too.


Quote:
that is like a small child running away when he or she doesn't want to deal with something


thats like saying "abortion is like getting a haircut" no, im sorry, you're wrong. You obviously know nothing about abortion.

Quote:
i will say it again, it isn't the child's fault that the condom broke or the contraceptive failed


and? It isn't the womans fault, and it was her body first. Get over it.

Quote:
and adoption is always an option


not for a woman who doesn't want to carry a baby in (caps) her body for 9 months. Adoption.. I hate it when people use that. How many kids are in the foster care system right now? And how many selfish people are on a waiting list to adopt little babies? Im sorry, but im not a baby making machine for selfish people who wont adopt the children already in foster homes. Sorry for ya! (caps)

Quote:
i'm very secure in my viewpoints


well bully for you. Im very secure in mine also.

Quote:
the only reason I spew forth the words that I do is because you people make me so angry the way you have complete disregard for human life.


are we using this argument again? Please, think of something new. Like I said, when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.

Quote:
and another thing, people who are prochoice are very insecure because they try to chase anyone who is prolife off of this board


wow, your post is full of assumptions. Come on, a post full of assumptions is not proving anything. I am no where near insecure, and im not trying to chase anyone off, im stating my opinion and if that makes some poor little lifer cry and run off then frankly I don't give a hot damn.

The difference between pro-choice, and pro-life people is pro-choice people will sit back until somethings said about abortion, they don't go around pushing their beliefs on other people. Because they feel woman should have the choice to do what they will with their unwanted pregnancy. Lifers try and force you to do something you don't want. Pushy controlling people.

Quote:
they don't want someone on here that actually has standards because that makes them look bad


can you for have atleast one sentence that actually has a fact in it? Please don't assume caca about a bunch of people that you don't know just because they don't agree with you. Thats beyond petty and immature. I have standards. I don't try and force other people to do something they don't want, I worry about my own life instead of sitting at a computer all day worrying about whose getting an abortion and how I can stop them.

You're not going to change my mind, and im not going to change yours, so lets please stop assuming caca like I have no morals and standards because I don't butt into peoples lives and tell them what they should do with their unwanted pregnancy.

You need to be worrying about yourself. I find it funn that you spend so much time worrying about other people and what they're doing.
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Kourtney08

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Posted: 02-08-05 14:30pm

I think men that try and force woman to go through with abortions are controlling, and abusive. Period.


I meant to say I think men who try and force a woman to go through a pregnancy she doesn't want are abusive, and controlling.
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FISHX

Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 920
Location: UK

Posted: 02-08-05 14:35pm

kourtney08 wrote:
i think men that try and force woman to go through with abortions are controlling, and abusive. Period.



I meant to say I think men who try and force a woman to go through a pregnancy she doesn't want are abusive, and controlling.



but you do stand by the original statement right?
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