Abortion?? Need Some Feedback (Page 1)
I am still steaming from a fight I just had with my best friend a bit ago. Let me first start by explaining what had happened. She is a mother of two and recently divorced, well a few weeks ago she decides she is going to have sex with a man who could give a rat's arse about her. So I don't make this too long she is now five days late for her period and she starts telling me she is going to have an abortion. :evil: she says I should be a supportive friend but I am sorry I can't agree with it and I won't. I asked her why she did not use protection, well she said she is allergic to condoms and all other kinds of bull, trying to justify why she didn't use protection. She says she can't have a child because the guy is a jerk and she won't have a deadbeat father, nor will she subject her children to this. My comments to her were, why didn't you think of that before you decided to sleep with him? She says I am bitter because I can't have children and I that is not why I am mad. I am bitter that women will use abortion as a form of birth control, I think it is sickening. I don't know that much about abortion but she gave me some big whoop deee dooo about how a baby does not have a heartbeat at four or five weeks. I don't know what to come back on her in regards to that because I don't know. But regardless of when the baby has a heartbeat I still think it is wrong. First of all she is a loser for throwing up the fact that I can't have children, second is I can't believe she is going to go through the rest of her single life not using protection, because "she is allergic to condoms" gimme a freaking break. We have been friends for a very long time and she has not agreed with some of my decisions but I have never killed a human being. I will terminate our friendship if she is pregnant and does have an abortion. She can find her support somewhere else because I will never ever support a decision like that. Am I wrong for feeling this way? Can someone give me some insight on a fetus that is only four weeks. Thanks in advance
please don't blast me to hard, I am just really pis _sed right now.
please don't blast me to hard, I am just really pis _sed right now.
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Re: Abortion?? Need Some Feedback
You certainly have the right to your opinion, and I do agree that if her behavior upsets you, you are better off with less close association with her. Regardless of what we think about abortion, she clearly sounds like she has some issues regarding sex and relationships, and it is very possible that this is not the last time she will present you with such a scenario. Whether she is pregnant or not is unknown at this point, but even if she isn't, you must be prepared that it could happen again. You will have to base your opinion on that likely reality.
| sandywalsh wrote: |
| she can find her support somewhere else because I will never ever support a decision like that. Am I wrong for feeling this way? |
not at all. Nobody is wrong for feeling what they feel. After all, you are the one who have to live with the decisiojns you make about who are your friends, and if it puts you in situations where it upsets you, you likely are better off without that interaction.
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| can someone give me some insight on a fetus that is only four weeks. Thanks in advance |
at that point, it actually is an embryo, not yet a fetus and won't be for another several weeks. Some features have begun to be laid down, such as that a beginning feature recognizable as the heart later on has begun at this time, though it mainly is more like a thich, mildly pulsating tube at this stage (heart muscle cells pulsate aautomatically from the very start). There is no sensation, no awareness or any kind of functioning brain for many months.
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Hi Sandy
Try to relax(i know, easier said than done).
My name is sandy also! I am not going to blast you. She did have no right to say anything about you not having kids. It is difficult after being married and then trying to be single again, we have feelings, she might be on the rebound, she made a mistake, she does not want to be pregnant with another man, she might be going thru her, what I refer to as her divorce period and she feels their might be some hope that her ex and her might get back together, she might have not been thinking very well, she might have been thinking that this might make her ex jealous, I do not know the whole situation and it is none of my business anyway. I admit that I am pro-choice maybe she might not be pregnant, it could be stress, nerves and if she is then this is her choice, her right, her body, she made a mistake, if you are true friends you might think of allowing her to have her rights this one time, even if you do disagree with her heck, we are all different, as long as she does something about it after this time you might be able to forgive her this one time and I do know that we can forgive but we do not forget. Just talk to her as I said before, she might not even be pregnant or have the abortion, maybe her hormones are kicking her.
The best to you!
Sincerely,
sandy
My name is sandy also! I am not going to blast you. She did have no right to say anything about you not having kids. It is difficult after being married and then trying to be single again, we have feelings, she might be on the rebound, she made a mistake, she does not want to be pregnant with another man, she might be going thru her, what I refer to as her divorce period and she feels their might be some hope that her ex and her might get back together, she might have not been thinking very well, she might have been thinking that this might make her ex jealous, I do not know the whole situation and it is none of my business anyway. I admit that I am pro-choice maybe she might not be pregnant, it could be stress, nerves and if she is then this is her choice, her right, her body, she made a mistake, if you are true friends you might think of allowing her to have her rights this one time, even if you do disagree with her heck, we are all different, as long as she does something about it after this time you might be able to forgive her this one time and I do know that we can forgive but we do not forget. Just talk to her as I said before, she might not even be pregnant or have the abortion, maybe her hormones are kicking her.
The best to you!
Sincerely,
sandy
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Ok who are you to say if she is allergic to condoms or not? Are you her doctor? Maybe she is.. Some people are allergic to condoms and/or spermicide.. And like sandy said..She made a mistake... Don't tell me you didn't sleep with somebody sometime in your life without plans to get pregnant.. And if i'm wrong.. Then I apoligize but it's rare that everytime a person has sex they are ttc. Also.. Why would you terminate the frienship if she had an abortion? Don't you know your supposed to support her no matter what? What if she is deeply hurt if you leave her? You chose to be friends with her so now you are stuck..
Does what I said above sound stupid with the whole friendship thing? Well that's what pl sound like to us..
Does what I said above sound stupid with the whole friendship thing? Well that's what pl sound like to us..
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Bd-you are saying that everyone that has sex has intentions of getting pregnant? Not me!!!! Or did I read that wrong?
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| sarahsweet wrote: |
| bd-you are saying that everyone that has sex has intentions of getting pregnant? Not me!!!! Or did I read that wrong? |
...Umm.. I said that not everyone who had sex was ttc.. Yeah I think you read it wrong. :wink:
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"don't tell me you didn't sleep with somebody sometime in your life without plans to get pregnant."
thats what I read......
thats what I read......
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Yes.. You read that wrong. I was saying that I doubt that everytime she has had sex.. She was ttc.
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Each one of us likely has someone in our past that we would rather have not had sex with or been likewise intimate with. Right off the top of my head I can think of 3 distinct people. Darren, the whiny momma's boy, jeremy, the sex addict, and m.B., the control freak who turned into the stalker. When I first started dating each of them, they seemed like normal, everyday likable guys. And while i'm not the sort to jump into bed quickly, it wasn't until *after* the relationship became more intimate that I realized that I didn't want to be with them and there was something wrong with them. Each of these three were a mistake. Women and men both make mistakes throughout the course of their lives.
Why is it then that we seem to only want women to pay for their mistakes? Is it because pregnancy likely effects only women and therefore is a more concrete "consequence" that we tell them they must pay for? Did they commit some crime that must be payed for?
More and more I am hearing the attitude that simply because women have had sex, then they should be forced to gestate as some sort of punishment for the dirty sex that these sl-ts have had. This interests me because no one has yet commented that it effectively takes *two* to tango and no "punishment" has been presented for the men who are also sl-ts and have shared in the dirty, dirty sex acts. So, if we are going to force women to gestate when they have had "illicit" sex and have effectively made a mistake that we all have probably made at some point in time, then what are we going to force the men to do that is just as extreme and life threatening? Shouldn't the "punishments" for sex be the same since both men and women have illicit sex?
It seems, here especially, to go from one extreme to the other quite quickly. Most make it seem that pregnancy is a punishment for women who have committed the crime of having sex, especially illicit sex. Then, the other side will chime in that pregnancy isn't a punishment but is a blessing. Which is it? A punishment for sex or a blessing? If it is a blessing, i.E. A gift, then what's wrong with simply returning the gift?
I will end by saying something that I have always believed. A consent to sex is not a consent to pregnancy. You cannot force (almost) victorian attitudes about sex and about women who have sex onto people just because you personally believe them yourself.
Also, if you can't support your friend for the choices she makes, then perhaps it is time to seek new friends. If you can get past her choice, then perhaps you can talk to her about simply changing your relationship to where in the future, this subject won't come up between the two of you. I have friends who are very different than me and we simply don't bring up certain subjects with one another. We're still friends, we're just not as close as other friends are. You can ask her not to include you in these most personal dilemma's if they make you this uncomfortable.
Why is it then that we seem to only want women to pay for their mistakes? Is it because pregnancy likely effects only women and therefore is a more concrete "consequence" that we tell them they must pay for? Did they commit some crime that must be payed for?
More and more I am hearing the attitude that simply because women have had sex, then they should be forced to gestate as some sort of punishment for the dirty sex that these sl-ts have had. This interests me because no one has yet commented that it effectively takes *two* to tango and no "punishment" has been presented for the men who are also sl-ts and have shared in the dirty, dirty sex acts. So, if we are going to force women to gestate when they have had "illicit" sex and have effectively made a mistake that we all have probably made at some point in time, then what are we going to force the men to do that is just as extreme and life threatening? Shouldn't the "punishments" for sex be the same since both men and women have illicit sex?
It seems, here especially, to go from one extreme to the other quite quickly. Most make it seem that pregnancy is a punishment for women who have committed the crime of having sex, especially illicit sex. Then, the other side will chime in that pregnancy isn't a punishment but is a blessing. Which is it? A punishment for sex or a blessing? If it is a blessing, i.E. A gift, then what's wrong with simply returning the gift?
I will end by saying something that I have always believed. A consent to sex is not a consent to pregnancy. You cannot force (almost) victorian attitudes about sex and about women who have sex onto people just because you personally believe them yourself.
Also, if you can't support your friend for the choices she makes, then perhaps it is time to seek new friends. If you can get past her choice, then perhaps you can talk to her about simply changing your relationship to where in the future, this subject won't come up between the two of you. I have friends who are very different than me and we simply don't bring up certain subjects with one another. We're still friends, we're just not as close as other friends are. You can ask her not to include you in these most personal dilemma's if they make you this uncomfortable.
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If someone is knowingly hurtful to you then you have every right to get away from the situation. I don't know her so I can't really say how she feels or is acting but from what you posted it seems to me that she doesn't hold your feelings in high regard. She knows of your struggles to have children and yet tells you of a possible pending abortion. I think that is really sad and I don't think you have every right to end the relationship with her.
Her comment about you being bitter was very harsh. A friend wouldn't say that to another friend!
Tell her exacly how you feel. Word for word everything you are feeling about her situation. Tell her exactly why you feel like you do. If she doesn't understand that what she is doing is hurting you then it's time to move on.
I'm sure she knows why you feel the way you do but simply sit her down and really explain the depth of it and maybe she will understand it better and not be so harsh towards you.
I wish you the best of luck with everything
Her comment about you being bitter was very harsh. A friend wouldn't say that to another friend!
Tell her exacly how you feel. Word for word everything you are feeling about her situation. Tell her exactly why you feel like you do. If she doesn't understand that what she is doing is hurting you then it's time to move on.
I'm sure she knows why you feel the way you do but simply sit her down and really explain the depth of it and maybe she will understand it better and not be so harsh towards you.
I wish you the best of luck with everything
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If someone is knowingly hurtful to you then you have every right to get away from the situation. I don't know her so I can't really say how she feels or is acting but from what you posted it seems to me that she doesn't hold your feelings in high regard. She knows of your struggles to have children and yet tells you of a possible pending abortion. I think that is really sad and I think you have every right to end the relationship with her.
Her comment about you being bitter was very harsh. A friend wouldn't say that to another friend!
Tell her exacly how you feel. Word for word everything you are feeling about her situation. Tell her exactly why you feel like you do. If she doesn't understand that what she is doing is hurting you then it's time to move on.
I'm sure she knows why you feel the way you do but simply sit her down and really explain the depth of it and maybe she will understand it better and not be so harsh towards you.
I wish you the best of luck with everything
Her comment about you being bitter was very harsh. A friend wouldn't say that to another friend!
Tell her exacly how you feel. Word for word everything you are feeling about her situation. Tell her exactly why you feel like you do. If she doesn't understand that what she is doing is hurting you then it's time to move on.
I'm sure she knows why you feel the way you do but simply sit her down and really explain the depth of it and maybe she will understand it better and not be so harsh towards you.
I wish you the best of luck with everything
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| mom2trevor wrote: |
| she knows of your struggles to have children and yet tells you of a possible pending abortion. |
I don't see the correllation you're attempting to make. While it is unfortunate when a woman has trouble conceiving or having children, I don't understand why you think the subject of abortion should not be brought up between two friends? Do you think that women who have difficulty in conceiving are inately "bitter" about the subject of pregnancy in general? Do you think they are inordinately jealous of other women who conceive? And if you think that, why would the ending of the pregnancy matter at all to them? After all, if the woman ends the pregnancy (if she is, in fact, pregnant), then there's no pregnancy to be jealous over.
Also, this attitude can exist both ways. At 15, a friend of mine got pregnant and chose to keep the pregnancy. At 18, she was at the mall, putting her child into his car seat and getting ready to leave when an older woman approached her. This woman proceeded to tell my friend that she should be ashamed of herself, that she was the problem with this country, and then the woman said that she had been trying for years to have children. So, my friend by your standards or possible correllation, is dam-ed if she does and dam-ed if she doesn't. If she had obtained an abortion, then by your correllation she would be "wrong" or "bad" because other women try and can't get pregnant. However, she kept the pregnancy and the resulting child and was still told that she was "wrong" and "bad" because other women try and can't get pregnant. It's a two way street.
I am truly sorry if anyone has had trouble conceiving or keeping a pregnancy when they truly wished to be pregnant. My heart does go to women in these heartbreaking situations. However, I still fail to see where another woman's decision to obtain an abortion has any bearing on your life, choices, or fertility at all.
Also, this attitude can exist both ways. At 15, a friend of mine got pregnant and chose to keep the pregnancy. At 18, she was at the mall, putting her child into his car seat and getting ready to leave when an older woman approached her. This woman proceeded to tell my friend that she should be ashamed of herself, that she was the problem with this country, and then the woman said that she had been trying for years to have children. So, my friend by your standards or possible correllation, is dam-ed if she does and dam-ed if she doesn't. If she had obtained an abortion, then by your correllation she would be "wrong" or "bad" because other women try and can't get pregnant. However, she kept the pregnancy and the resulting child and was still told that she was "wrong" and "bad" because other women try and can't get pregnant. It's a two way street.
I am truly sorry if anyone has had trouble conceiving or keeping a pregnancy when they truly wished to be pregnant. My heart does go to women in these heartbreaking situations. However, I still fail to see where another woman's decision to obtain an abortion has any bearing on your life, choices, or fertility at all.
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I said it exactly how I meant to say it and I don't believe this girl came here for a debate.
I know two very close relatives of mine that infertile both due to endo and the other one also has pcos. They are very hurt over the mention of abortion.
If a woman can't concieve a desperatly wanted child i'm sure she doesn't want to hear about her best friends abortion
I know two very close relatives of mine that infertile both due to endo and the other one also has pcos. They are very hurt over the mention of abortion.
If a woman can't concieve a desperatly wanted child i'm sure she doesn't want to hear about her best friends abortion
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I am allergic to latex so cannot use all types of condoms, but there are non latex condoms out there. They are a little more expensive but well worth it, if you don't know who you're sleeping with. How did this friend not get pregnant while with her ex??? Anyway, it is up to you to do what you feel for this "friendship"
i agree with j-lee "as for her being your friend, it does not sound like she had too much regard for your friendship when she throw the comment to you about not being able to conceive. That was childish and hurtful." I would terminate the friendship more over that than anything.
Anyhow- good luck with all of this.
i agree with j-lee "as for her being your friend, it does not sound like she had too much regard for your friendship when she throw the comment to you about not being able to conceive. That was childish and hurtful." I would terminate the friendship more over that than anything.
Anyhow- good luck with all of this.
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| bd1012 wrote: |
| ok who are you to say if she is allergic to condoms or not? Are you her doctor? Maybe she is.. Some people are allergic to condoms and/or spermicide.. And like sandy said..She made a mistake... Don't tell me you didn't sleep with somebody sometime in your life without plans to get pregnant.. And if i'm wrong.. Then I apoligize but it's rare that everytime a person has sex they are ttc. Also.. Why would you terminate the frienship if she had an abortion? Don't you know your supposed to support her no matter what? What if she is deeply hurt if you leave her? You chose to be friends with her so now you are stuck..
Does what I said above sound stupid with the whole friendship thing? Well that's what pl sound like to us.. |
no I am not her doctor and never claimed to be. We have been friends for over 13 years and I know pretty much everything about that girl. I was sitting here thinking last night, back about six years ago when her ex-husband had a vasectomy I remember he had to wear a condom for a while after he had the surgery for some reason until he got the clearance from his doctor that their was no live sperm cells in his specimen. I never heard about the allergic reaction back then. It was just a convenient excuse, but regardless, when you know damn well you are going to have sex with a person sooner or later there are other forms of birth control out there besides condoms. Why would I terminate my friendship with her? I guess its not just the fact that she would have an abortion but I just don't want to associate myself with the kind of person she has become. Regardless of how long we have been friends I am not stuck with her and I will never support her decision to have an abortion. One last thing if this guy had some bucks I guarantee she would be poppng that baby out in about 9 months but because he is a scrub that won't happen. It just makes me sick.
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| jenn_smithson wrote: | ||
I don't see the correllation you're attempting to make. While it is unfortunate when a woman has trouble conceiving or having children, I don't understand why you think the subject of abortion should not be brought up between two friends? Do you think that women who have difficulty in conceiving are inately "bitter" about the subject of pregnancy in general? Do you think they are inordinately jealous of other women who conceive? And if you think that, why would the ending of the pregnancy matter at all to them? After all, if the woman ends the pregnancy (if she is, in fact, pregnant), then there's no pregnancy to be jealous over.
Also, this attitude can exist both ways. At 15, a friend of mine got pregnant and chose to keep the pregnancy. At 18, she was at the mall, putting her child into his car seat and getting ready to leave when an older woman approached her. This woman proceeded to tell my friend that she should be ashamed of herself, that she was the problem with this country, and then the woman said that she had been trying for years to have children. So, my friend by your standards or possible correllation, is dam-ed if she does and dam-ed if she doesn't. If she had obtained an abortion, then by your correllation she would be "wrong" or "bad" because other women try and can't get pregnant. However, she kept the pregnancy and the resulting child and was still told that she was "wrong" and "bad" because other women try and can't get pregnant. It's a two way street. I am truly sorry if anyone has had trouble conceiving or keeping a pregnancy when they truly wished to be pregnant. My heart does go to women in these heartbreaking situations. However, I still fail to see where another woman's decision to obtain an abortion has any bearing on your life, choices, or fertility at all. |
thank all of you for replying to my post. I needed a good nights rest to calm down and that is what I have done. I think what upset me most was her comment to me about not being able to have kids. This was the last straw and I have chosen not to continue our friendship. If by chance she is pregnant, which knowing her for so long the girl is never late for her period so most likely she is, I don't want to know anything about it ,because I know it will be brought up later when she wants a pitty party for what she has done and how guilty she feels. I will never look at her the same. I am the kind of person that has never have been jealous of someone when I find out they are pregnant it has never been a sensitive issue with me, I think pregnancy is the most beautiful thing and god has blessed someone and has given someone that privilege to conceive a child. The issue I have is when a woman decides she is going to take that gift god has given her and throw it away like garbage I can't stand the very thought of it. We all have choices and each individual has a say so about how they live their own life but that child (if she is pregnant) doesn't have a say so and has no choice whatsoever.
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I am glad that you are sticking to your beliefs.
Wishing you all the best :)
Wishing you all the best :)
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| mom2trevor wrote: |
| i said it exactly how I meant to say it and I don't believe this girl came here for a debate.
I know two very close relatives of mine that infertile both due to endo and the other one also has pcos. They are very hurt over the mention of abortion. If a woman can't concieve a desperatly wanted child i'm sure she doesn't want to hear about her best friends abortion |
your right its not the pregnancy that hurts me its the talk of abortion. By the way I have pcos and that is why I can't have children.
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| mom2trevor wrote: |
| i am glad that you are sticking to your beliefs.
Wishing you all the best :) |
thank you
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| jlee77 wrote: |
| hi sandy, my name is jamie, pleased to meet you.
No, do not feel guilty for your plans to terminate the friendship. You feel how you feel and nobody can change that. I would tell you that whether you were for abortion or against abortion. As for her being your friend, it does not sound like she had too much regard for your friendship when she throw the comment to you about not being able to conceive. That was childish and hurtful. Yes, she should have thought about becoming pregnant before she slept with the man. Unfortunately it seems her mind is made up on abortion and if she is pregnant, she will seek one. Obviously you cannot change that. If it makes you queazy just thinking about it, and you cannot bear the friendship, then end it. It's not worth the stress in your life. You have your beliefs, she has hers. Palpatation, heartbeat, whatever you call it, is there very quickly. I forgot the exact time but i'll find out for you. As for the brain.....To correct what was previously said, brainwaves are present at 40 days. It is indeed not a fetus, but an embryo. But it is still human and it is a baby, just not fully developed yet. Good luck with your situation and if it's stressful to you, try and stay as far away as you can hun. I'm here if you would like to im me! Take care. |
nice to meet you also jlee I will be nosing around here for a while, this seems like an interesting forum.
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| Tags: abortion debate, about abortion, Birth Control, throwing up, allergic to, pregnant, allergic, period, sleep, sex | ||
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