Well obviously if babies can live when they are born at 20-some weeks

Who are u to say that a fetus doesn't feel pain? Do u remember ur days as a fetus? I don't think so. Let people have their beliefs, not everyone has to believe everything u say.

that's fine -- but these are arguments being used by the anti-choice brigade to force other people to adhere to their views. No one is forcing you to have an abortion, if you think this is an issue -- but if someone either believes the data and science which says otherwise, or they simply don't give a monkeys, don't tell them they are wrong to have an abortion.

their beliefs about fetal pain are unscientific and untrue.

the problem is trying to use misinformation for debating. It doesn't do your case any favours.

She doesn't care. She wants to believe it, therefore it's true.

Jlee, you can have an opinion about abortion all you want. But it is not acceptable that you post lies that have been disproven. That is what I am saying. Argue all you want, but when scientific sources disprove a false scientific claim of yours, then you have to accept that your claim is false. When you repost it, then it is a deliberate lie, regardless of what unscientific lie-site you use as source.

That is the problem I have with you and your incessant lies, and which proves that you are nothing but a lying troll.

So again, jlee, stop posting lies about fetal pain.

then what? That doesn't mean that they feel pain before the 26th week of pregnancy (24 weeks gestation), does it now?

*that* is the lie I am objecting to, nothing else.

sigh! The question of whether pain signals can reach the brain or not has nothing to do with "belief," but rather with the *fact* that the pain nerves don't connect with the brain's cortex until the end of the 26th week of pregnancy. Before then, no signal of any kind can be "felt," including those of pain. This is documented and is standard medical/scientific knowledge. So the claim that the fetus feels pain beofre that is proven to be a lie even before that lying claim is made.

Any question? Or are you one of those who believe that wishful thinking is the same as scientific facts? That *is* typical of pro-lifers, after all, and likely is the reason why they get caught in outright lies so often.

i never said that they did

so you randomly inserted your post out of context in a tread having nothing to do with your post.

Ah, but of course. Silly us for not figuring that out

I did not have any feeling as a fetus, pain, happy, shock, whatever and I held the same feelings when I was born and I have a birthmark and didn't feel that either and I was fully developed as a fetus and at birth. Lol! I love this place, it is like a good humor ice cream bar.
Always,
sandy

first of all, do not group me together with all those who are prolife. Yes I am prolife, but that doesn't make me a certain way automatically does it? And what i'm saying about beliefs, some choose not to research every single bit of information and they go on their belief system. Why is it you can't just leave that well enough alone? Do u have to be right all the time? Is that a big thing for you? I mean, seriously, give it a break. If someone wants ur "professional" medical advice let them ask u for it. As for me, I don't give a good god damn about anything u have to say. U could try to convince me that something is false til the cows come home, doesn't mean i'm going to listen. I don't have to believe something I don't want to. That's the great joy of having an individual mind, being able to think for myself. And as for me, whether u say it's false or not, it is my belief that a fetus can feel pain at some point. That's not why I choose not to abort, that has nothing to do with it. It is simply my opinion, and nothing u or anyone else can say will change that.

and if you met somebody that believed the world was flat you'd just agree with them? No. You'd disprove them.



alrighty then. Continue to believe lies because you want to. Denial is fun!



your opinion is wrong. Your opinion is disproved by the general medical community.

Opinions are opinions, not facts. That's why I don't care about urs. People can believe what they want, doesn't matter to me. As for someone believing the world is flat. Good for them. That's great. I don't care. I'm not gonna go out and try to show them that it's not. What does it matter to me what they think? And ur right, denial is fun, isn't it? here's an idea for u, get a life, internet isn't the be-all, end-all of life. Go out and do something with urself instead of trying to make urself feel better by being a shadow to other people. Say it with me "free thinking!" have fun with that.

so how do you feel about those who use lies and misinformation to try to force other people to follow their beliefs? Canadian abortion laws are relatively liberal (although I understand there can be problems obtaining abortions in some places, this is not because they are prohibited). What do you think about what is going on in the usa, with the right wing and fundamentalists trying to force their extremist views into law?

so you don't care about other people's opinions. That's depressing, but perhaps just the american way.



miaow!

well thanks, but i'm not american. Take a geography course.

" here's an idea for u, get a life, internet isn't the be-all, end-all of life. Go out and do something with urself instead of trying to make urself feel better by being a shadow to other people. Say it with me "free thinking!" have fun with that. "

jacg..Just because people are on the internet, it does not mean that is all they do! You know what really angers me off about this whole internet deal.. Sometimes people say I should be doing something constructive and I spend too much time on the computer (i don't) but I spend the same amount of time watching tv other days and no one says anything, it's always about the computer, but somehow the fact that it's a computer and not the tv, it wastes double the amount of time.. anyway.. I watch tv, I clean up a lil, I go to work.. I am working like 30 hours lately and I do the laundry and still find time to be on the internet. It only takes a small fraction of time to read and post.. What is this some kind of last resort thing that you go to when you lose an argument? Why are you on the internet anyway? Why don't you go out and do something miss queen bee? If I want to use the internet in my free time.. That is my perogative, nothing wrong with that.