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Debate Forums > Abortion Debate Forum > Abortion Inhumane (Page 1)
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Q: Abortion Inhumane
asked by: samie on July 5th, 2004
Active User, very eHealthy
London, england -- they walk. They yawn. They rub their eyes. And it's been only 12 weeks since they were conceived.


Some incredible new ultrasound techniques developed in great britain may change the tenor of the heated debate over legal abortion.


The ultrasound scans show 12-week-old unborn babies not only walking in the womb, but stretching and kicking--long before the mother can feel the baby's movements.


The images themselves came as a surprise to professor stuart campbell of london's create health clinic, who developed the scans.


Campbell told the bbc, "this is a new science for understanding and mapping out the behavior of the baby. Maybe in the future it will help us understand and diagnose genetic disease, maybe even conditions like cerebral palsy which puzzles the medical profession as to why it occurs."

the society for the protection of unborn children, a british pro-life group, sees the incredibly detailed images as a breakthrough in the battle against abortion.


The group's national director, john smeaton, said, "these pictures are a wonderful reminder of the fact that the unborn child is a living human being. These pictures are of babies as young as 12 weeks' gestation, the age at which a large percentage of abortions are carried out in this country."

"tragically, unborn children such as these are killed at a rate of one every three minutes," smeaton added. "we hope and pray though that many lives will be saved by these awe-inspiring pictures. We challenge abortion providers, in the interests of informed consent, to show these pictures to women seeking abortion."

however, smeaton suggests it would be a mistake to use the pictures to push for legislation at this time, since the british parliament is not pro-life.


"it is essential that legislative proposals aimed at changing the abortion law are not put to parliament in this, the most anti-life parliament in history, because we are certain that a majority of mps would vote to make abortion even more widely available," smeaton said.


The 3-d ultrasound images have been compiled in a book called, "watch me grow."

campbell's work demonstrates that an unborn baby engages in complex behavior from an early stage in development.


The images show that, from 18 weeks, unborn babies can open their eyes and from 26 weeks, they can scratch, smile, cry, hiccup, and suck.


Until recently, a number of medical professionals thought that smiling could not occur until six weeks after birth.


In addition to captivating parents, the detailed 3-d images could provide a powerful weapon in the legal fight against abortion.


For years, pro-abortion forces have claimed that the unborn child is not a person, and therefore is not entitled to legal rights.


By demonstrating that unborn children can engage in complicated human behavior long before birth, the new technology could be used to demonstrate that laws permitting abortion are inhumane, according to pro-life activists.
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Replies(24)
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sparklypixie12
replied on July 5th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
Did you read the article in the daily mail with the pictures?? It's amazing to see the expressions and movements of the baby in the womb
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2ferano
replied on July 5th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
Whatever samie. Blah blah blah.
Yeah, let's make abortion illegal and hundreds of thousands of unwanted babies! More welfare, more crack babies, more women aborting their own fetuses, more abuse, more children in the adoption system, more kids on the street. Wonderful.
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samie
replied on July 5th, 2004
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Less in the grave....

Sorry incinorator or medical wast disposal units
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2ferano
replied on July 6th, 2004
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What is it like living in fantasy land anyway?
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samie
replied on July 6th, 2004
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Is that some cheap european copy of disney land?
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2ferano
replied on July 6th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
No, it is inside your head.
It is time to go home, samie. Let's leave the real world, to those with competency.
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samie
replied on July 7th, 2004
Active User, very eHealthy
Can I ask you two questions

1. Why do you keep insulting me or at least trying to insult me?

2. Is that a good enough reason to behave in such a manor towards a fellow human being?
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2ferano
replied on July 9th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
I insult you because you are acting like a fool. I am not trying to be mean or to hurt your feelings. I would just like you to open your eyes and read posts before responding.
I really am sorry if I offended you, I just get so upset at your posts that have nothing to do with the topic. And with your quotes and opinions that you list as fact. It is very frustrating.
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samie
replied on July 9th, 2004
Active User, very eHealthy
I list statisics as statistical data, biological fact as biological fact, I list opinions as opinions and I use quotes to back my posts up. You do nothing like that.

I wonder if you keep calling me a fool to convince other people or just yourself that I am posting lies, when I am not.

Most of my educational information comes from medical, political, religious and other books, internet, govenment stats and other reputable sources such as scientific research and are freely available to everyone if you just researched it yourself.

I dont mean to get you upset but I wont pretend abortion dosnt k ill a human being just to further a political agenda or to keep you in denile, I wont lie to enable woman to homicide another human being without conscience, out of fear, hatred, social ideologies or medical conditions that can be treated without k illing the baby, cancer for example or for any other unacceptable reason for k illing.

I dont care if you think I am a fool or idiotic or a complete waste of space I am not offended by your name calling. I simply pitty you and hate those who have made you like this.

I am sorry if sometimes it seems as though I am fighting you I am not I am fighting the mentality you have as a result of slogans and propergander.

I know its not your fault I am not your enemy I am (believe it or not) on yourside, I fight not against people like you but fight to protect those of weak mind.

By fighting against those who use a system called perception managment, I encounter people who have fallen victim to this every single day, you are not alone in your misfortune many people have weak minds many, many people so dont worry your not slow or uneducated just educated to a different set of ideologies those which different people of power wish you to have.

Perception management example:

20 to 30 years ago it was not socialy unacceptable to drink and drive but over the last 20 - 30 years we have had little bits of information as to why its wrong odd programmes, reports in newspapers and tv news of accidents, different advertisments ect so now 20 or 30 years later it is not only a crime but is frowned upon by society and rightly so.

This same tactic has been consistantly used but sightly more subtle in regards to abortion rights, it is often portrayed in soaps to make the viewer feel for the woman and ignore the baby, newspaper reports and televison promotion of pro choice ideology.

Thankfully the powers that be, are slowly changing the system to promotion of a more pro life p.O.V (we are winning) but dont get me wrong its not down to pro life that we are winning its just politicaly and socialy more benifical to raise awareness in this area, due to certain economical downfalls abortion has had on society.

Such as loss of pensions, loss of work force, loss of schools loss of population, the need to increase immigration numbers (oh you didnt think ilegal immigrants got better social benifits for no reason did you?) and other related reasons.
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2ferano
replied on July 10th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
Samie...No you don't. Everything you list, you say is fact when it is nothing but opinion. So, get over yourself. I don't have to convince myself you are a fool. I already know that.
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where_is_the_line
replied on July 24th, 2004
Experienced User
Dear Hotasfrick...
I'm not saying I agree with all of samie's logic or opinions, and I haven't seen enough of them to honestly say. But when samie makes a post largely quoting a newspaper source, yea, there is some inevitable connotation of fact there! Newspapers are supposed to print fact, unless it's in the editorial section, which is still supposed to use fact in the basis of their opinion, which you should try some more hotasfrick. Instead of belittling people who disagree with you. Please try and offer concrete counter points. What justifies abortion?

Maybe you are getting upset and frustrated because some of the facts do not favor your opinions? I don't see samie claiming everything posted is fact when some of it is clearly opinion.

You insult samie because she is a fool. Maybe it is foolish to insult. I haven't seen many, if any, posts by samie that do not relate to the topic of abortion, and if they are somewhat off topic, it is in response to someone else's comment, so samie is not the one going off topic originally.
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2ferano
replied on July 24th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
Quit bumping up old posts and trying to start arguments.
I was pretty sure that you were samie when you first joined this site, but you actually use proper grammar, so you must just be one of her "friends"

so, go back and read samie's crap and then you will understand why I call her a fool.

Samie quotes things out of context....Yes, it may be a fact that scientist, mr.So and so, said," blah blah blah" that is a fact, but the only fact there is that is what he said. It does not make what he said, fact.

So, don't start with me. I don't have time for samie want to be's. I do not call samie names because she does not agree with me, I call her a fool because she is. Besides, she is a he who claimed to have had an abortion.....
If she/he is so sure of himself, then why did he need to lie?
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PattyV
replied on July 24th, 2004
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So why do you think this "line" person is posting on sami's old posts?Don't you think we all see the similarities???We are pro-choice,not stupid!Patty
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2ferano
replied on July 24th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
Exactly!
And odd how I get argued with right away! Do I sense a grudge?
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where_is_the_line
replied on July 24th, 2004
Experienced User
Well i'm not samie, and I don't know samie, and I just thought i'd comment based on what I saw, I admitted I haven't been around here long enough to really know the history. I'm posting on what I see, I just recently found this forum. Are there more recent threads that you won't complain about me commenting on? I'm def not a samie wannabe, lol, I don't even know this person, and I had a suspicion she might really be a he too.
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sparklypixie12
replied on July 27th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
You blatantly are samie!
Why else would you be suspicious that she was really a he???
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2ferano
replied on July 30th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
Yeah, whatever.....

Liz, is that you in your avatar? If so, you are really freakin pretty!
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sparklypixie12
replied on July 30th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
Yeah that's me- Embarassed omg i'm not pretty! That just happens to be the best pic I have! But thank you for the compliment :d
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PattyV
replied on July 31st, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
You are beautiful,inside and out!! Smile
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