Medical Questions > Nutrition > Gout Diet Forum

Gout Cured After 27 Years (Page 4)

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November 27th, 2006
Thanks a Million
I have been prone to extreme gout attacks since I past the age of 50. A family problem. I know I shouldn't eat shellfish but I like it too much. So last week I had two dinners with mussels, shrimp and other stuff at an italian restaurant while on a trip. I took allopurinol every day thereafter expecting the usual attack. Nothing happened for four days. Then came thanksgiving when I ate a fairly large quantity of homemade cranberry sauce. Can't resist it! And bingo, when going to bed I felt the bunion on my left foot getting painful. By morning it was blood red and the pain was increasing tenfold during the day. In desperation I took twice two tablets of allopurinol. Zilch effect, maybe even worse. By then the heat and the redness had spread to my big toe as well. Applied ice compresses several times. Seemed to help somewhat. Finally used internet to get some info on this calamity. Found your ehealth forum website and read every reply to jjj2 info. Took a full teaspoon of baking soda in a glass of water at 2pm and the pain started to subside considerably during the following night. Took another teaspoon in the morning before breakfast. It is now 11am, all the redness is gone, my big toe is still swollen and as stiff as a plank but it does not throb anymore. Thank a million jjj2.

By the way I have been using baking soda for ages to reduce the acidity of my stomach.
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replied November 29th, 2006
Follow Up On My 11/27/06 Notice
I spoke a bit too fast on the 27th at 11am. Later on in the day, after dinner of bland food, my entire foot started to swell up and excruciating pain settled in the crease of my foot and leg. Couldn't walk any more. Took some more baking soda but added later on, before going to sleep, one dextrametasone tablet which had been prescribed months ago by my gp to relieve the pain caused by gout. Slept little but by the next morning the redness had subsided. Took immediately a dose of baking soda and another dextrametasone. Three more baking soda doses during the day and by the evening of the third day the gout attack had become bearable. On this morning of the fourth day I am able to wear my shoe again on the left foot and amble about with a slight little limp. This is definitively a success due to the baking soda intake. I have never been able to recover this fast from any other gout attack.
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replied November 30th, 2006
Follow-up 0n My 11/29/06
Relief was of short duration. Pain and swelling reappeared with a vengeance in the afternoon. Took baking soda dosage before going to bed and 2 tylenol tablets. Bad night! Woke up with a left foot swollen and a bunion red as beet. Am back to square one. Beginning to doubt about the benefits of baking soda.

Jyy2, would you have any recommendation. I have followed the suggestions as posted and made sure my diet was as bland as possible.
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replied November 30th, 2006
Experienced User
Please take a look at "emergency gout treatment" section of http://www.Icuredmygout.Org . I will explain more later.
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replied December 1st, 2006
Experienced User
Baking soda helps to reduce uric acid levels. I take baking soda and it has lowered my ua levels. The only thing I can guess is you did not take enough to lower your ua levels.

Just taking one or two when you have gout is not going to do much. You need to be taking it so you do not get gout. Wink
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replied December 2nd, 2006
Experienced User
Hi cdm1820,

hope your gout has subsided. Fyi,

1) allopurinol is neither an anti-inflammatory nor a pain reliever, and is not useful in treating an acute gout attack. As described in "emergency gout treatments", you need an nsaid, colchicine, or steroids to treat an attack. Baking soda in water seemed to work well in many users, especially, when it is used together with these meds. (check with the doctor before trying.)

2) the key to a successful treatment of gout attacks is to treat it the minute you think an attack is coming. When an attack is full-blown, medicines do not work well. To be sure an attack is gone, keep taking the med for 2~5 more days at a lower dosage. The reason your attack kept coming back is that you discontinued the treatment before gout is completely gone.

3) what triggered your attack? I think they are: change in allopurinol dosage, over consumption of cranberry, alcohol drink (if you had it), and, to a smaller degree, the purine-rich dark turkey meat. You are not alone. There are more gout attacks after thanksgiving.

4) bring gout med when traveling.

Good luck.
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replied December 2nd, 2006
Experienced User
Hi makoto,

may I ask what dosage of baking soda do you take a day? How long have you been taking it? And, what was your ua level before and after taking bs? Thanks.
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replied December 5th, 2006
Works Pretty Well, Jyy2
I'm a pretty young gout sufferer -- got my first bona-fide "attack" right around my 32nd birthday in june of this year. However, there had been warning signs for a couple of years prior to this, including occasional, inexplicable toe pain without swelling. Turns out my mom has gout too, and it started hitting her about the same time as it hit me. Seems women have some resistance to it prior to about 50.

When I realized that I did indeed have gout and not turf toe, which I thought it might be due to running up hills, I did some research and found your website. Your explanation of the mechanism by which sodium bicarbonate works was pretty compelling, so I decided I would give it a try the next time I felt an attack coming on.

It didn't take long for another twinge to appear in the toe, and I let it get to the point where it hurt to walk before trying baking soda. At first I took a dose of 1/2 tsp before bed, and then 1/2 tsp upon waking up. The relief came quite quickly, but I found the baking soda to taste awful, so I diluted it more and took 1/4 tsp 4x per day. Within 36 hours of the first dose the attack had completely subsided. I only took the baking soda for 3 days on that occasion.

Since then I have had a couple more twinges, and bs has worked very well as a prophylactic against developing a full-scale attack -- all it takes is a couple of doses in the evening and I feel fine in the morning. However, I felt a twinge the other day, took my usual prophylactic dose, woke up fine and then proceeded to drink a lot of beer in the evening. Now I have more than a twinge, but less than a full-scale attack, and I think i'd better stay on the baking soda for at least a few days.

I wanted to point out an unusual phenomenon I noticed after taking baking soda for about a day. It seems that the baking soda starts to actually help eliminate the uric acid from one's body in the form of sodium urate, because my urine became distinctly cloudy within 24 hours of beginning bs treatment each time I used it. Sodium urate crystals evidently give urine a turbid appearance, so my bet is that's what I am seeing.

This worries me a bit, because it seems that too high of a concentration of these precipitates might lead to kidney stone formation. But on the other hand, I would guess that by eliminating a lot of residual urate one might be able to "buy time" with an extended period of baking soda usage -- say 2 weeks or so -- by eliminating some of the uric acid that has built up in joint tissue.

If anyone has any information on whether baking soda might contribute to kidney stone formation, please let me know. Although I really do not like having a sore toe, I suspect I might dislike passing a stone even more.
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replied December 11th, 2006
Experienced User
""hi makoto,

may I ask what dosage of baking soda do you take a day? How long have you been taking it? And, what was your ua level before and after taking bs? Thanks. ""

i use to take a tablespoon full a day, and my ua dropped down to about 7.5. It was 8.3. I have not tested my ua lately, but I think it is still okay.

I now drink bs, same dosage, but once every two days.

I use to drink it with a big bottle of water. 750ml bottle of water.

My last gout attack was october 10th. I am hopeful and somewhat confindent that bs will keep away other attacks.

I do credit bs for my drop in ua levels.
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replied December 11th, 2006
Experienced User
Hi makoto,

thanks for your info.
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replied December 12th, 2006
Experienced User
Re: Works Pretty Well, Jyy2
Re: "gwalch post
works pretty well, jyy2
posted: 12-05-06 5:33pm
...
I wanted to point out an unusual phenomenon I noticed after taking baking soda for about a day. It seems that the baking soda starts to actually help eliminate the uric acid from one's body in the form of sodium urate, because my urine became distinctly cloudy within 24 hours of beginning bs treatment each time I used it. Sodium urate crystals evidently give urine a turbid appearance, so my bet is that's what I am seeing.

This worries me a bit, because it seems that too high of a concentration of these precipitates might lead to kidney stone formation. But on the other hand, I would guess that by eliminating a lot of residual urate one might be able to "buy time" with an extended period of baking soda usage -- say 2 weeks or so -- by eliminating some of the uric acid that has built up in joint tissue.

If anyone has any information on whether baking soda might contribute to kidney stone formation, please let me know. Although I really do not like having a sore toe, I suspect I might dislike passing a stone even more."

========================================== =.

I am glad you have good control of your gout.

Msu is excreted in the urine as uric acid. When uric acid concentration is high and the urine ph is low (ph<5.5), uric acid can precipitate to form uric acid kidney stones. This can be avoided by drinking more water to dilute the urine, and by alkalizing the urine to increase the solubility of uric acid by consuming more alkaline foods and drinks, including drinking baking soda in water. The fact that you drank baking soda in water will only help prevent uric acid kidney stones, and not other way around. The same logic applies to cystine kidney stones.

In the contrarily, calcium phosphate is more difficult to dissolve in high ph urine. Therefore, over-alkalizing urine for prolonged period of time can cause calcium phosphate kidney stones.

There are many causes of having cloudy urine -- such as changing diet, using acetaminophen (tylenol), and having certain medical conditions. I don't think one can determine the exact cause of the problem merely by looking at the color of the cloudy urine. I would stop using baking soda immediately and have a doctor check out why the urine is cloudy. In case your doctor gives you the blood and urine tests, you might want to ask him/her also to include blood uric acid test and 24-hour urine uric acid excretion test. They are very useful in the diagnosis and management of gout. Good luck and take care.
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replied December 13th, 2006
Hi,
new to this site. Just adding my .02 regarding the baking soda.

Long story short, i've tried anything and everything i've ever read. What do I have to lose? Had a very painful episode.
I can't say the baking soda definetly works, but I will continue using it.

This last bout had me getting a steroid shot- worked for a few days.
After it got worse, my podiatrist tells me to take alleve- killed my stomach and no relief. He then called in indomethacin. A little relief, but got worse by weeks end. This past weekend I was in terrible pain. Foot doc then calls in cholochicine. Monday evening I started with two .6mg of cholochicine and a teaspoon to baking soda. Following morning I had a significant improvement. Drank another glass of bs in the morning and followed up with 2 more cholochicine and another glass of bs that evening.

Woke up this morning and i'm back to 90%. I don't know it if was the cholochicine or a little bit of both. My previous experiences with cholochicine was 48 hours before I would see relief, along with a few hours a day on the crapper. This time around I only had a few trips to the john.

I plan on following up with 2 more and a glass of bs this evening and hope to be back to 100% tomorrow.

Maybe the baking soda works, maybe it doesn't. I know i'll continue using it. I'd recommend anyone give it a try.

The one question I have- is it recommended to continue the baking soda routine daily? It's not all that bad- certainly something I will deal with if it will limit/stop my attacks.
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replied December 13th, 2006
Will Chlorella And Barley Green Powder Help ?
Since the above 2 products(chlorella and barley green powder) on the shelf alkalize the body, so could we use this for the gout instead of baking soda ?

Thankyou.
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replied December 16th, 2006
Re: Works Pretty Well, Jyy2
jyy2 wrote:
in the contrarily, calcium phosphate is more difficult to dissolve in high ph urine. Therefore, over-alkalizing urine for prolonged period of time can cause calcium phosphate kidney stones.


good call. Dr. Says using the baking soda probably caused the cloudiness by making phosphates precipitate. Says not to worry too much, but not to overuse bs (i.E. Don't use it for more than a week or so at a time, which I don't).

Seems for some of us gout sufferers it is an issue of ph balance as much as anything else.

Already had the Dr. Check uric acid level and symptoms during my first true attack and he diagnosed gout. Mildly elevated blood uric acid level and classic gout symptoms on big toe.

Btw, my mom is using the bs remedy to great effect. The hardest thing was to convince her to quit drinking so much oj.

Thanks, jyy2! We are both very grateful.

Due to your site, I have only had one hard-core gout attack. Hopefully, it was the last.
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replied February 20th, 2007
Gout + Baking Soda
I am 37 years old and I had my first gout attack about 10 years ago. I do not know what brought on the first attack but I have my suspicions. Anyway I went about 8 1/2 years with bad attacks. Doctors could not figure anything out with my UA levels. It got soooo bad that Gout deformed my left big toe joint and I could not bend it anymore. Well I had to have that operated on and a screw put into my foot. Then I found out about Baking Soda via http://icuredmygout.org THANKS JYY. I have not a problem since I started taking baking soda as he has recommended. Some of the other benefits of the baking soda are that all of the deposits of the crystals on the joints have been going down or disappearing all together. I still have been experimenting with how often to take baking soda. From what I can figure out it depends on how much your body can deal with acidic foods.

The biggest problem that I had with Baking Soda was the taste of it in anything. So I decided to try something that may not seem normal but it works for me. I ordered empty capsules from the internet. This allows me to take the Baking Soda without having to deal with the taste.

Good luck to all of those who have Gout.
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replied May 3rd, 2007
the Website Is Down
http://www.icuredmygout.org/

with this error.
SC_INTERNAL_SERVER_ERROR

Is the webmaster still involved in this thread?
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replied July 22nd, 2007
My Gout Experience
Hi, I have gout for 7 years with nearly 1-2 serve attacks each year. I given up visiting a doctor 4 years ago because:

1. NSAID over-the-counter like ibuprofen is a good painkiller for me
2. When I thought about a doctor I was too pain to go for
3. Proof rest has more benefits than travel
4. Doctors just give you similar NSAID with UA controlling medicine.
5. Using UA controlling medicine is gambling even given advise from a doctor.

However my recent longer attack (about 2 weeks, my longest attrack) alerts me to take an alternative approach therefore I found here. I've been searching lot of materials about gout in both Chinese and English. A funny thing is one gout article (in Chinese) recommend to drink lemon juice without sugar (juice to water is 1:9). At first I really doubt about this because everyone knows lemon is so acidic, but I found more articles are talking about after the body intake the juice, the blood will become more alkaline. I've tried it myself (about half to 1 lemon per day) for 1 week during my gout attack and proved the effect is neutral or even positive.

I will try the baking soda method too and report lately.

One more thing is do you ever thinking of combining lemon juice with baking soda? I've found this and I will try this later:
The Lemon Bicarbonate Formula
Ted from Bangkok provided us with this pH Alkalinizing Forumla. "This simple formula will normalized many biological parameters, pH, ORP, phosphates, bicarbonates and antioxidants of vitamin C. A potential miracle water. One whole lemon freshly squeezed. Keep adding baking soda slowly bit by bit until the fizz stops. Then you will add water to one half glass. This is often taken either twice a day. To be taken once in the morning and once before bedtime on an empty stomach."

Facts:
1. I have my complete blood and urine test, every goes between the normal range except my UA is at 8.74 mg/dL. It seems quite a major factor of my gout.
2. Everyone has different triggers of gout, here is mine (not in order):
- dehydration
- walking too much
- eating chicken or soybeans or shellfish for several days
- stress
3. The most unforgettable pain of my gout at peak of the attack is the great pain coming with your heart bit, even I'm at resting position without any movement. So bad.
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replied October 22nd, 2007
Jyy2
I want to know if there are any side effect to the baking soda and blood thinners cumadin and lovenox.

My husband is having an acute gout attack on top of having a blood clot in his right knoww. He is currently taking allopurinol and colchicine as well as the blood thinners above. Do you think it would be ok to give him the baking soda
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replied October 22nd, 2007
Experienced User
I am very sorry your husband is having a gout attack in addition to his other medical conditions.

I strongly suggest that he does not take baking soda in water unless his doctor says it is OK. I do not know if it is safe to take baking soda in water with Coumadin and/or Lovenox. I know baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) contains sodium and can raise the blood pressure. Other side effects of BS can be found at: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginf o/medmaster/a682001.html .

If his pain is sever, you may want to ask the doctor for some narcotic pain killer for the pain.

Best wishes for your husband's speedy recovery.
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replied March 3rd, 2008
I hope this help all of you
We just thought we would email you with some extra recipes. We hope the cleansing phase is going well and that you are remembering the importance of drinking 2.75 litres of (preferably non-chlorinated) water daily. We recommend little and often is the best way forward. The rushing to the loo phase does pass once the kidneys start working more efficiently. However, if you are worried about this you could try by adding a pinch of SEA salt to the water

The reason for the water is that it helps keep the blood hydrated. In relation to gout and the capsules, the water helps the blood to carry the excess uric acid to the liver and kidneys where it is filtered and finally excreted from the body.

Don't forget that 30% Uric acid is excreted through the bowels so it is also important that you help them to work efficiently.

We recommend that you need to consider helping restore the friendly bacteria in the gut. This can be done by taking Lactobacteria Acidophillis. This can be purchased from most good pharmacists.

Remember whilst on the cleansing diet it is important to only eat the foods on the list, if a food is not mentioned then it is out of bounds until the cleansing phase is completed. Secondly, try to stay full so that you do not experience rapid weight loss, as this can make the Gout worse, by eating several meals rather that 3 bigger meals. You need to also remember to try and keep the calorie intake right for you.

A TYPICAL DAILY DIET PROVIDING ENOUGH CALORIES, PER DAY FOR THE 5-7 DAY HEALING PHASE

BREAKFAST: - Plain Yoghurt and fresh fruit smoothie

MID MORNING: Bowl of 2% cottage cheese, ground flax see, with fresh pineapple and/or strawberries

LUNCH: The Soup and salad recipe with a baked potato loaded with 2% sour cream

MID AFTERNOON SNACK: Carrot and Celery with one of the dip recipes and the other half of the smoothie, and /or some more cottage cheese with the fresh homemade salsa recipe

DINNER: Brown Rice, almond and corn combination with a baked sweet potato and sour cream. OR Casserole, soup salad etc

SNACK: A banana, apple or orange

Make meal times actual meals as variety and proper calorie intake is vital to the healing process. Above is just an example of how to obtain the variety of the suggested foods and enough calories to avoid fast weight loss.

Using the recipes below you can make up a weeks supply so as to avoid the daily hassle. This will help to stop you from swaying from the strict phase of this.


Recipes for the cleansing and healing Diet.

BREAKFAST IDEAS

(1) PLAIN yoghurt with fresh fruit (pineapples, berries, banana, pear)

SMOOTHIE RECIPE: Take 8oz of plain yoghurt and blend with one large ripe banana, ½ cup of unsweetened orange juice or one large orange half a can of crushed pineapples in its own juice, a few handfuls of mixed fresh or preferably frozen berries and even some frozen dark sweet cherries and 2 tablespoons of fresh bee honey.

ENJOY HALF IN THE MORNING AND FREEZE THE REST FOR AN ICY TREAT LATER

**If your system is used to something hot with your meals then you can have warm water with a slice of fresh lemon or lime to comfort your system **

(2) Cottage cheese mixed with fresh fruit:- fresh strawberries, cherries, pineapple, kiwi, mango or your choice from the healing list.

LUNCH OR DINNER IDEAS

(1) Iceburg salad (no dark greens whilst cleansing). Although the iceburg is of little nutritional value, it is a tasty way of combining the other important healing foods. Add carrots, avocado, celery, grapes, parsley, cucumber, onions and tomatoes. (Avoid regular dressings - please see the dressing and dip recipes below.
(2) A baking potato (avoid all purpose "white" potatoes - they are labelled as white potatoes) with a lot of sour cream. Using brown and red skinned potatoes, that are still white inside, are fine. Add sour cream and parsley with a small pinch of sea salt for extra flavouring.
(3) A baked sweet potato with a tiny bit of cinnamon and butter for flavouring. NO margarine or butter substitutes!
(4) Cabbage or Squash steamed with onions is a nice side dish.
(5) Brown Rice may be boiled in the microwave with celery, garlic and/or onions for flavour. Add fresh chestnuts and almonds on the side. Brown rice should always be eaten with raw almonds/chestnuts to absorb the iron content of the nuts. Don't forget that corn is very helpful in healing. You can use frozen, fresh or corn on the cob. Watch the butter, salt intake; avoid it as it can cause water retention, it is important to keep flushing your water intake. You can boil it, microwave it or steam it. This provides a nice protein meal.
(6) Steam brown rice, carrots, celery, garlic and/or onions, chopped raw almonds, along with a small fresh tomato. This is a great meal addition. Season with parsley and/or garlic or onion powder to taste.
(7) SOUP RECIPE- it can be eaten for lunch or dinner. This will help cleanse the system, add plenty of vitamin A and neutralise the metabolism. However, do not use any bouillon, it is full of purines! In a large pot mix water, carrots, onion, fresh garlic, lots of corn, red potatoes with their skins on, celery, Chinese celery cabbage, Bok Choy stalks and a small can of chopped tomatoes for flavour. The carrots and celery take longest to cook so start them first and end with the tomatoes.
(Cool A GREAT CASSEROLE - 1 ½ cups of brown rice, ¾ cup of sour cream, 2 shakes of soy sauce, 1 ½ cups of corn 2 stalks of Bok choy, 1 ½ cups of celery cabbage, 1 large carrot and 4 cloves of fresh garlic. Pre-cook the rice and then mix ingredients together. Bake at 350 for 30 minutes or until desired texture and temperature is reached.
(9) A SQUASH SPAGHETTI MEAL- Many find the orange-type spaghetti squash more appealing to the eye but find the vegetable spaghetti squash to have a better taste and texture.
Method
Halve the spaghetti squash lengthwise, scoop out the seeds. (b) Place half the squash, cut side down, in a pot with (5cms.) water, cover and boil for 20 minutes. (c) Squash is half cooked; Use a fork to scrape out the flesh to produce spaghetti-like strands. A thin hard shell will be left. (d) In a large bowl mix the strands of spaghetti squash with a small can of fresh-diced tomatoes, onions and garlic. Spoon back into the squash shell or put into a casserole dish. (e) Bake at 350 F (175 C.) for 20 minutes or until done.

(10) YUMMY Cabbage Rolls: - Trim the rib of each cabbage leaf so it is thin. Place the leaves in and 11 by 7 inch baking dish, add 2 tablespoons of water and cook on high in the microwave, for 8 - 10 minutes, until tender. Drain and set aside. In a casserole dish add potato, carrots, celery and onion. Cover and cook on high for 3 mins. Stir in uncooked rice and garlic cook for 5 minutes. Remove form the microwave and let cool slightly. Place about 1/3 of rice mixture onto the centre of each cabbage leaf and fold the bottom of the leaf over the mixture, and the sides towards the centre. Roll tightly. Arrange the cabbage rolls in the baking dish seam side down. Cover and cook on high for 8-12 minutes. Rotate the dish half way through cooking. Sprinkle the rolls with the diced tomatoes and enjoy with soured cream topping.

SNACKS AND DIPS

In between meals eat some fresh fruit, yoghurt, cottage cheese and fresh vegetables. This helps to keep the calories up and provides more alkaline healing help. At least one meal/snack per day should be some fresh fruit and raw vegetables. You can take some carrots, avocado, celery and cucumbers and use one of the dip recipes below for a tasty treat. All of these vegetables are well suited in combination with fruit-avocados and grapefruit or oranges. Apples and carrots are also a good combination. You can use fruit to flavour the vegetables, mix together and enjoy on a bed of lettuce. Use these dressing/dips for the suggested salad receipt in the meal sections above
(1) Take two large or 4 small red peppers and place into a frying pan, cook on all sides until the skin in blackened. When the skin is charred it can be peeled off easily. Cut and de-seed. Puree the pepper and add to 16 oz of sour cream. Add some cayenne pepper and/or chilli pepper for extra spice!
(2) Take one cup of plain yoghurt and mix with two cloves of chopped garlic, ½ teaspoon of Sea Salt, ½ teaspoon of cumin seed, ½ teaspoon of ground ginger and the zest of 1 lemon
(3) Sour cream with some fresh lemon juice squeezed into it can be great, or also add some spices. Add some cucumber to this.
(4) Homemade Salsa - Great mixed with cottage cheese. Mix some tomatoes, chopped green and red peppers, cucumber, red onion, cilantro, pablano pepper, Serrano pepper and a few dashes of garlic and sea salt plus lime juice and the juice form the tomatoes.
(5) Half a ripe avocado, 1 -1 1/2 ripe bananas, 4 -5 frozen or fresh strawberries, ¼ cup plain yoghurt, 2 tablespoons natural honey. Pinch cardamom, Pinch allspice, and whatever else takes your fancy. Almonds, fruits, spices etc. Throw it all into a blender. Blend until the desired texture is reached i.e. Smooth or crunchy!
(6) Quick, easy, nutritious and delicious - this salad is a great side dish to serve the family! Take 2 cups of cooked brown rice, 2 apples (peeled, cored and chopped), ¾ cup chopped raw almonds, ¼ cup plain yoghurt, ¾ cup of natural honey, 2 tablespoons of lemon juice. Toss all the ingredients into a bowl, mix and serve.
(7) Shredded cabbage with slaw dressing - ½ cup sour cream, ½ cup plain yoghurt then add 2 tablespoons fresh lemon juice, a little sea salt and 1 teaspoon of celery seed.



It's taken ages to find the good sites and get quality info on this so I hope you'll find it useful and that it helps sort your gout out.

Thanks,
Neil1973
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