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Moo

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From the Pro-Life forum (re: IUD)
Posted: 02-26-08 07:26am

Firstly I didn't want to respond there (being pro-choice) and would also like to respect the fact the OP mentioned she does not engage in debates (so this is a general topic on contraception rather than this specific post I guess) but I'm curious about pro-lifers views on IUDs and contraception?

The IUD is a typical method of birth control not advocated by pl given that it traditionally doesn't suppress ovulation, rather prevents a fertilised egg implanting alongside making an inhospitable environment for sperm to meet an egg.

No-one can know when they have an IUD whether or not there was fertilisation each month and I understand why this may be an ethical problem for some.

However, why is the IUD separate from other forms of birth control? The pill, the shot etc all primarily stop ovulation but also thin the lining of the womb in case an egg is released and fertilised. As with an IUD no-one can know whether the pill prevented a pregnancy by preventing implantation or by stopping ovuation so why are these forms acceptable (if they are) but the IUD is not?
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Becky

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Posted: 02-26-08 09:38am

i have no idea but I have the Mirena coil and it has never bothered me.
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Reptar

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Posted: 02-26-08 15:27pm

If the pro-lifer (or anyone for that matter) is Christian, it does go against what's in the bible, but so do any forms of birth control. Then again, many people are pro-life without being religious.

I never understood the people who do follow a religion that is against abortion, birth control, and pre-marital sex but still choose to have the sex. Especially if they go around telling women who are pro-choice to keep their legs closed.
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oopoopoop

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Posted: 02-26-08 16:00pm

Oh there's a significant nutcase element out there that insists that because one way the BCPs work is by stopping implantation, that they are causing "abortions". This is doubly the case with the morning-after pill, but has also been argued for the regular kind. That's the basis of all the pharmacists who refuse to dispense contraceptive pills and/or morning after pills.
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yodavater

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Re: From the Pro-Life forum (re: IUD)
Posted: 02-27-08 17:09pm

Moo wrote:

As with an IUD no-one can know whether the pill prevented a pregnancy by preventing implantation or by stopping ovuation so why are these forms acceptable (if they are) but the IUD is not?

That's a perfectly good question, and I can't imagine why any prolifer would take that position. I certainly don't. The only reason I can think of might be that the person taking that position is also taking some sort of BC pill, and doesn't want to admit the ethical ramifications.
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Verizon-y

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Posted: 02-28-08 00:09am

Here is a quote from a post of mine on another thread. It explains why Plan B Emergency Contraception does NOT cause embryos to not implant:



source
futureshock wrote:
Ingi wrote:
It can. What Plan B does, is it prevents ovulation. But it also makes your uterus a hostile environment if you have already ovulated. Since it is a massive dose of hormones, it can cause your period to be delayed.


It does not cause the uterus to be a hostile environment. It actually does the opposite. Plan B is the hormone progesterone , which is the same hormone fertility clinics give women to maintain the uterine lining for keeping a pregnancy.

Here is exactly how it works:

The ovary contains a supply of eggs. One egg each month begins to ripen and mature into a large structure called a follicle, regulated by a hormone from the pituitary called Follicle Stimulating Hormone, FSH. The follicle is going to produce estrogen, which is what causes the growth of the uterine lining. FSH is particularly important early in the cycle.

A second pituitary hormone, Luteinizing Hormone, (LH) assists in stimulating the mature follicle, and in particular, a rapid surge in LH is what triggers the follicle to pop, releasing the egg, in a process called ovulation. This is a key step, so remember this: a spike in LH levels triggers ovulation.

After ovulation, the egg goes on its way, and might be fertilized, leading to pregnancy. The follicle left behind isn't done yet, though; it becomes a structure called the corpus luteum, which continues to produce estrogen (necessary to maintain the uterine lining), and also gradually produces more and more progesterone. Progesterone helps maintain the uterine lining, (This is why women undergoing fertility treatment are sometimes given progesterone to help maintain the pregnancy}. but also suppresses LH production by the pituitary. It's a kind of timer. The corpus luteum is maintained by the levels of LH, but the corpus luteum also produces rising levels of progesterone, which shut off LH…and when too little LH is produced, the corpus luteum shuts down, no estrogen and progesterone are produced, the uterine lining is no longer maintained, and a woman finds a bloody mess in her panties.

The key thing to remember about this part, though, is that progesterone suppresses LH.

Put two pieces of the story together: a spike in LH levels triggers ovulation and progesterone suppresses LH. Hmmm. This suggests an idea. If you wanted to prevent ovulation, how would you do it?

(Consider this a test. Imagine that Jeopardy jingle playing right now.)

Time's up—I bet everyone came up with the right answer, though. Giving someone a large dose of progesterone would shut down LH production, so there would be no ovulation, so no egg would be released, and any sperm happening to be in the woman's reproductive tract would find nothing to fertilize.

You have just figured out what is called Plan B contraception. It is a form of birth control that tells the woman's ovaries to hold off on releasing any eggs for a short while. It's called emergency contraception, because it is used by a woman who has, for whatever reason (rape, a broken condom, misplaced enthusiasm, second thoughts, anything) had unwanted sperm in her reproductive tract, and she wants to make sure that this isn't the moment her ovaries happen to pop a follicle.

futureshock wrote:
How much more explicit could I possibly be? I just posted the exact biology of Plan B.

If biology doesn't work for you, how about pro-life websites?


Conclusion

Given the above, there is no evidence that shows that the endometrial changes produced by COCs contribute to failure of implantation of conceptions, nor is there evidence that COCs cause an increased per pregnancy ratio of ectopics.

There is no evidence that Plan B affects implantation.
# There is evidence that suggests that Plan B only prevents conception by either making cervical mucus hostile to sperm or preventing ovulation.

"'The post-fertilization effect was purely a speculation that became truth by repetition,' says Joe DeCook, MD, a retired OB/GYN and vice president of the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists."

futureshock wrote:
Ingi wrote:
Futureshock, please explain how it prevents an egg from attaching to the uterin lining. BECAUSE I'M FASCINATED TO KNOW!



It doesn't prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine lining.

Plan B is progesterone.
Progesterone helps maintain the uterine lining, (This is why women undergoing fertility treatment are sometimes given progesterone to help maintain the pregnancy}.
Progesterone stops ovulation because it suppresses LH production by the pituitary.

I can tell you where the mistaken notion started, and that was from looking at women on the pill. If there is no ovulation, there is no cascade of events leading to thickening of the uterine lining so implantation can take place. That's the "hostile environment". However, you can only have an insufficient uterine lining of there is no ovulation. The notion of ovulation occurring while a woman was on the pill, getting fertilized, and not implanting was based on the notion that women on the pill have an insuficient uterine lining. What was not taken onto consideration was the fact that if ovulation occurred while on the pill, the cascade of events leading to a thickening, sufficient for pregnancy uterine lining would also occur.

Otherwise, you'd never hear of a woman giving birth after getting pregnant while on the pill. If Plan B stopped fertilized eggs from implanting, it would work a lot longer than 5 days after sex, and it would work a lot better.
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Jules

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Posted: 02-29-08 07:41am

But what happens if the woman has already released the egg when she takes the plan b?

This is all very interesting!
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Verizon-y

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Posted: 02-29-08 14:09pm

Nothing. Some research has shown that the sperm are slowed down a little by the thickening of the cervical mucous, but nothing happens to the egg. If the sperm and egg meet, she gets pregnant.
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yodavater

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Posted: 02-29-08 15:41pm

Here's an interesting article on the MAP:

Emergency contraception

Is it worth all the fuss?

(excerpt)

Emergency contraception has been heralded as the solution to rising abortion rates. Some authors have suggested that almost a million abortions could be prevented in the US annually if every woman used emergency contraception every time she needed it.7 Proponents claim that 43% of the reported fall in abortions in the US (110 000 between 1994 and 2000) was due to use of emergency contraception, and that around 51 000 pregnancies were prevented by its use in 2000-1.4 Similar calculations would lead us to conclude that emergency contraception prevented more than 66 500 abortions in England and Wales in 2004.

Yet, despite the clear increase in the use of emergency contraception, abortion rates have not fallen in the UK. They have risen from 11 per 1000 women aged 15-44 in 1984 (136 388 abortions) to 17.8 per 1000 in 2004 (185 400 abortions). Similarly, increased use of emergency contraception in Sweden has not been associated with a reduction in abortion rates.8 A multitude of social and economic factors influence pregnancy rates, and it is hard to show the effect of a single factor. For example, the fall in the abortion rate in the US could be due to reduced access to abortion clinics - another ideological battleground.

full article: http ://www.bmj.com/cgi/content...X=0&resou rcetype=HWCIT

And here's a Wikipedia article with links to other sources:

"A number of studies in the 1970s and 80s concluded that emergency contraception could cause changes in the endometrium[113] that would prevent implantation of an early-stage embryo in the uterus. This research led many pro-life advocates, who believe that pregnancy begins at fertilization, to oppose ECPs as an abortifacient."
http://en.wikipe dia.org/wiki/Morning-after_pill
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Verizon-y

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Posted: 02-29-08 17:13pm

Breast feeding acts as an abortifacient.
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Verizon-y

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Posted: 02-29-08 17:16pm

So many embryos and fertilized eggs die before they are either implanted or born that
the women who are on hormonal birth control are causing the LEAST amount of embryonic death, because they are not ovulating.

For every live birth, on average, 9 fertilized eggs and embryos die. So just having procreative sex causes death.

Also:

The National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly
Issue: Volume 7, Number 4 / Winter 2007
Pages: 703 - 707
URL: Linking Options

Is Plan B an Abortifacient? A Critical Look at the Scientific Evidence

Nicanor Pier Giorgio Austriaco A1

A1 Providence College, Rhode Island

Abstract:

On September 27, 2007, the Catholic bishops of Connecticut announced that they would allow the four Catholic hospitals in their state to comply with the state's emergency contraception law. The statement has generated much controversy and criticism from those who are convinced that Plan B is an abortifacient. This essay summarizes and critically reviews the scientific studies that have attempted to uncover the mechanism of action of levonorgestrel, the active drug in the contraceptive commonly known as Plan B. Mounting and recent evidence suggests that this emergency contraceptive has little or no effect on post-fertilization events.



source
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BRmom

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iud...abortion?
Posted: 05-17-08 21:34pm

I am a pro-lifer and a christian. I had an iud for almost two yrs. I recently found out that it actually is like having an abortion. I went to the gyno to have it taken out and my doc tried to convence me otherwise. I looked it up on the internet before i went to make sure. My doc actually brought a laptop into the room and we looked at websites together. When she seen it she tried to say that was hypotetical and wasn't the way the iud worked. Needless to say i had it removed. Here's how it works...first of all it suppose to keep the egg and sperm from meeting. It makes the cervical mucus thick so sperm die out before reaching the uterus. It acts as a spermicidal. It thins the lining of your uterine wall so that if an egg and sperm meet it does'nt attatch to your uterus. Therefore your body flushes it out. There are people who get pregnant and have successful pregnancies with an iud. Most of the BC pills do the same thing to your uterus so that an egg can't attatch. So I'm going the natural way for BC. Here is a website that is good...www.fertilityfriend.com ...also there are things called cylcle beads. search cycle beads on google to find out more... So if you are a christian and pro-life i would not reccommend iud.....you dont even have to be a christian...pro-life should be enough......
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aochriss

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Re: iud...abortion?
Posted: 05-18-08 11:21am

BRmom wrote:
I am a pro-lifer and a christian. I had an iud for almost two yrs. I recently found out that it actually is like having an abortion. I went to the gyno to have it taken out and my doc tried to convence me otherwise. I looked it up on the internet before i went to make sure. My doc actually brought a laptop into the room and we looked at websites together. When she seen it she tried to say that was hypotetical and wasn't the way the iud worked. Needless to say i had it removed. Here's how it works...first of all it suppose to keep the egg and sperm from meeting. It makes the cervical mucus thick so sperm die out before reaching the uterus. It acts as a spermicidal. It thins the lining of your uterine wall so that if an egg and sperm meet it does'nt attatch to your uterus. Therefore your body flushes it out. There are people who get pregnant and have successful pregnancies with an iud. Most of the BC pills do the same thing to your uterus so that an egg can't attatch. So I'm going the natural way for BC. Here is a website that is good...www.fertilityfriend.com ...also there are things called cylcle beads. search cycle beads on google to find out more... So if you are a christian and pro-life i would not reccommend iud.....you dont even have to be a christian...pro-life should be enough......


You are wrong, and I feel very sorry for you. You will be killing many, many more embryos using "natural" bc than an IUD ever could.

P.S. If you have a child don't breast feed, because if you do you will be having abortions caused by breast feeding. Look up luteal phase defect.
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oopoopoop

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Posted: 05-18-08 11:26am

But y'know what? I don't mind that anyone doesn't want to use an IUD, or BC pills, or whatever. They can believe what they like about it, and get pregnant as many times as they want. Just so long as they don't try to stop anyone else from using an IUD, or birth control pills, or condoms, or having an abortion if they need to. That is what choice is all about.
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cmyked

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Posted: 05-18-08 16:48pm

I'm christian, and no form of contraception bothers me. I'd like to see the bible passage that says "thou shalt not use an IUD". Razz
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aochriss

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Posted: 05-18-08 17:48pm

oopoopoop wrote:
But y'know what? I don't mind that anyone doesn't want to use an IUD, or BC pills, or whatever. They can believe what they like about it, and get pregnant as many times as they want. Just so long as they don't try to stop anyone else from using an IUD, or birth control pills, or condoms, or having an abortion if they need to. That is what choice is all about.


But people are actively trying to force other people not to use birth control. One way they do this is to circulate LIES, like the one the Vatican spread about holes in condoms not protecting against the HIV/AIDS virus, and another way is by spreading the big lie about hormonal birth control, saying that it causes abortions. There are many pharmacists who won't fill prescriptions for the pill or Plan B because they have this incorrect idea.
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aochriss

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Posted: 05-18-08 17:49pm

cmyked wrote:
I'm christian, and no form of contraception bothers me. I'd like to see the bible passage that says "thou shalt not use an IUD". Razz


lolz!!!! Me, too!
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aochriss

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Posted: 05-18-08 18:34pm

Here is a great site which explains how every major contraceptive method works, and none of them cause abortions.

http://www. fhi.org/en/RH/Pubs/factsheets/mechact.htm< /a>
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BRmom

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Posted: 05-18-08 22:06pm

im not trying to force anyone not to use any type of bc. im just telling you what i found out.

to: "nolongerhere" you are wrong about horomonal bc not causing you to ovulate. with the mirena you still ovulate...unless i did the whole time i had it....but i also had a period the whole time too...

im not out to 'get' anyone im just telling my opinion...
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Superman12

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Pro Life
Posted: 07-10-08 04:25am

I am pro-life to a certain extent. I cannot say that I am 100% against abortion. The reason being that women who are raped or whose pregnancy puts them or the baby in mortal danger should be allowed to terminate the pregnancy. However, I am against a woman having an abortion because she was in too big of a hurry or just didn't want to use protection. I draw the line at the irresponsible. Those who want to have the fun then not deal with the consequences of their actions. Those who do not have control over what has happened to them or who may die along with the unborn child I believe should have the choice. This is just my opinion.
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