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Moo
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From the Pro-Life forum (re: IUD)
Posted: 02-26-08 07:26am
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Firstly I didn't want to respond there
(being pro-choice) and would also like to
respect the fact the OP mentioned she does
not engage in debates (so this is a
general topic on contraception rather than
this specific post I guess) but I'm
curious about pro-lifers views on IUDs and
contraception?
The IUD is a typical method of birth
control not advocated by pl given that it
traditionally doesn't suppress ovulation,
rather prevents a fertilised egg
implanting alongside making an
inhospitable environment for sperm to meet
an egg.
No-one can know when they have an IUD
whether or not there was fertilisation
each month and I understand why this may
be an ethical problem for some.
However, why is the IUD separate from
other forms of birth control? The pill,
the shot etc all primarily stop ovulation
but also thin the lining of the womb in
case an egg is released and fertilised.
As with an IUD no-one can know whether the
pill prevented a pregnancy by preventing
implantation or by stopping ovuation so
why are these forms acceptable (if they
are) but the IUD is not?
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Becky
Especially EHEALTHy
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Posted: 02-26-08 09:38am
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i have no idea but I have the Mirena coil
and it has never bothered me.
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Reptar
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
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Posted: 02-26-08 15:27pm
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If the pro-lifer (or anyone for that
matter) is Christian, it does go against
what's in the bible, but so do any forms
of birth control. Then again, many people
are pro-life without being religious.
I never understood the people who do
follow a religion that is against
abortion, birth control, and pre-marital
sex but still choose to have the sex.
Especially if they go around telling women
who are pro-choice to keep their legs
closed.
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oopoopoop
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Posted: 02-26-08 16:00pm
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Oh there's a significant nutcase element
out there that insists that because one
way the BCPs work is by stopping
implantation, that they are causing
"abortions". This is doubly the case with
the morning-after pill, but has also been
argued for the regular kind. That's the
basis of all the pharmacists who refuse to
dispense contraceptive pills and/or
morning after pills.
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
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Re: From the Pro-Life forum (re: IUD)
Posted: 02-27-08 17:09pm
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| Moo
wrote: |
As with an IUD no-one can know whether the
pill prevented a pregnancy by preventing
implantation or by stopping ovuation so
why are these forms acceptable (if they
are) but the IUD is
not? |
That's a perfectly good question, and I
can't imagine why any prolifer would take
that position. I certainly don't. The
only reason I can think of might be that
the person taking that position is also
taking some sort of BC pill, and doesn't
want to admit the ethical ramifications.
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Verizon-y
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Posted: 02-28-08 00:09am
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Here is a quote from a post of mine on
another thread. It explains why Plan B
Emergency Contraception does NOT cause
embryos to not implant:
source| futureshock
wrote: | | Ingi
wrote: | | It can. What Plan B does, is
it prevents ovulation. But it also makes
your uterus a hostile environment if you
have already ovulated. Since it is a
massive dose of hormones, it can cause
your period to be
delayed. |
It does not cause the uterus to be a
hostile environment. It actually does the
opposite. Plan B is the hormone
progesterone , which is the same hormone
fertility clinics give women to maintain
the uterine lining for keeping a
pregnancy.
Here is
exactly how it works:
The ovary contains a supply of eggs. One
egg each month begins to ripen and mature
into a large structure called a follicle,
regulated by a hormone from the pituitary
called Follicle Stimulating Hormone, FSH.
The follicle is going to produce estrogen,
which is what causes the growth of the
uterine lining. FSH is particularly
important early in the cycle.
A second pituitary hormone, Luteinizing
Hormone, (LH) assists in stimulating the
mature follicle, and in particular, a
rapid surge in LH is what triggers the
follicle to pop, releasing the egg, in a
process called ovulation. This is a key
step, so remember this: a spike in LH
levels triggers ovulation.
After ovulation, the egg goes on its way,
and might be fertilized, leading to
pregnancy. The follicle left behind isn't
done yet, though; it becomes a structure
called the corpus luteum, which continues
to produce estrogen (necessary to maintain
the uterine lining), and also gradually
produces more and more progesterone. Progesterone
helps maintain the uterine lining, (This
is why women undergoing fertility
treatment are sometimes given progesterone
to help maintain the pregnancy}. but also
suppresses LH production by the
pituitary. It's a kind of timer.
The corpus luteum is maintained by the
levels of LH, but the corpus luteum also
produces rising levels of progesterone,
which shut off LH…and when too little LH
is produced, the corpus luteum shuts down,
no estrogen and progesterone are produced,
the uterine lining is no longer
maintained, and a woman finds a bloody
mess in her panties.
The key
thing to remember about this part, though,
is that progesterone suppresses
LH.
Put two pieces of the story together: a
spike in LH levels triggers ovulation and
progesterone suppresses LH. Hmmm. This
suggests an idea. If you wanted to prevent
ovulation, how would you do it?
(Consider this a test. Imagine that
Jeopardy jingle playing right now.)
Time's up—I bet everyone came up with
the right answer, though. Giving someone a
large dose of progesterone would shut down
LH production, so there would be no
ovulation, so no egg would be released,
and any sperm happening to be in the
woman's reproductive tract would find
nothing to fertilize.
You have just figured out what is called
Plan B contraception. It is a form of
birth control that tells the woman's
ovaries to hold off on releasing any eggs
for a short while. It's called emergency
contraception, because it is used by a
woman who has, for whatever reason (rape,
a broken condom, misplaced enthusiasm,
second thoughts, anything) had unwanted
sperm in her reproductive tract, and she
wants to make sure that this isn't the
moment her ovaries happen to pop a
follicle. |
| futureshock
wrote: | How much more explicit could
I possibly be? I just posted the exact
biology of Plan B.
If biology doesn't work for you, how about
pro-life websites?
Conclusion
Given the above, there is no evidence that
shows that the endometrial changes
produced by COCs contribute to failure of
implantation of conceptions, nor is there
evidence that COCs cause an increased per
pregnancy ratio of ectopics.
There is no
evidence that Plan B affects
implantation.
# There is evidence that suggests that
Plan B only prevents conception by either
making cervical mucus hostile to sperm or
preventing ovulation.
"'The post-fertilization effect was purely
a speculation that became truth by
repetition,' says Joe DeCook, MD, a
retired OB/GYN and vice president of the
American Association of Pro-Life
Obstetricians and
Gynecologists." |
| futureshock
wrote: | | Ingi
wrote: | | Futureshock, please explain
how it prevents an egg from attaching to
the uterin lining. BECAUSE I'M
FASCINATED TO
KNOW! |
It doesn't prevent a fertilized egg from
attaching to the uterine lining.
Plan B is progesterone.
Progesterone helps maintain the uterine
lining, (This is why women undergoing
fertility treatment are sometimes given
progesterone to help maintain the
pregnancy}.
Progesterone stops ovulation because it
suppresses LH production by the pituitary.
I can tell you where the mistaken notion
started, and that was from looking at
women on the pill. If there is no
ovulation, there is no cascade of events
leading to thickening of the uterine
lining so implantation can take place.
That's the "hostile environment".
However, you can only have an insufficient
uterine lining of there is no ovulation.
The notion of ovulation occurring while a
woman was on the pill, getting fertilized,
and not implanting was based on the notion
that women on the pill have an insuficient
uterine lining. What was not taken onto
consideration was the fact that if
ovulation occurred while on the pill, the
cascade of events leading to a thickening,
sufficient for pregnancy uterine lining
would also occur.
Otherwise, you'd never hear of a woman
giving birth after getting pregnant while
on the pill. If Plan B stopped fertilized
eggs from implanting, it would work a lot
longer than 5 days after sex, and it would
work a lot
better. |
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Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3843 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 93
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Posted: 02-29-08 07:41am
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But what happens if the woman has already
released the egg when she takes the plan
b?
This is all very interesting!
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Verizon-y
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 3291
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Posted: 02-29-08 14:09pm
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Nothing. Some research has shown that the
sperm are slowed down a little by the
thickening of the cervical mucous, but
nothing happens to the egg. If the sperm
and egg meet, she gets pregnant.
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
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Posted: 02-29-08 15:41pm
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Here's an interesting article on the MAP:
Emergency contraception
Is it worth all the fuss?
(excerpt)
Emergency contraception has been heralded
as the solution to rising abortion rates.
Some authors have suggested that almost a
million abortions could be prevented in
the US annually if every woman used
emergency contraception every time she
needed it.7 Proponents claim that 43% of
the reported fall in abortions in the US
(110 000 between 1994 and 2000) was due to
use of emergency contraception, and that
around 51 000 pregnancies were prevented
by its use in 2000-1.4 Similar
calculations would lead us to conclude
that emergency contraception prevented
more than 66 500 abortions in England and
Wales in 2004.
Yet, despite the clear increase in the use
of emergency contraception, abortion rates
have not fallen in the UK. They have risen
from 11 per 1000 women aged 15-44 in 1984
(136 388 abortions) to 17.8 per 1000 in
2004 (185 400 abortions). Similarly,
increased use of emergency contraception
in Sweden has not been associated with a
reduction in abortion rates.8 A multitude
of social and economic factors influence
pregnancy rates, and it is hard to show
the effect of a single factor. For
example, the fall in the abortion rate in
the US could be due to reduced access to
abortion clinics - another ideological
battleground.
full article: http
://www.bmj.com/cgi/content...X=0&resou
rcetype=HWCIT
And here's a Wikipedia article with links
to other sources:
"A number of studies in the 1970s and 80s
concluded that emergency contraception
could cause changes in the
endometrium[113] that would prevent
implantation of an early-stage embryo in
the uterus. This research led many
pro-life advocates, who believe that
pregnancy begins at fertilization, to
oppose ECPs as an abortifacient."
http://en.wikipe
dia.org/wiki/Morning-after_pill
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Verizon-y
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 3291
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Posted: 02-29-08 17:13pm
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Breast feeding acts as an abortifacient.
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Verizon-y
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 3291
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Posted: 02-29-08 17:16pm
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So many embryos and fertilized eggs die
before they are either implanted or born
that
the women who are on hormonal birth
control are causing the LEAST amount of
embryonic death, because they are not
ovulating.
For every live birth, on average, 9
fertilized eggs and embryos die. So just
having procreative sex causes death.
Also:
The National Catholic Bioethics
Quarterly
Issue: Volume 7, Number 4 / Winter
2007
Pages: 703 - 707
URL: Linking Options
Is Plan B an Abortifacient? A Critical
Look at the Scientific Evidence
Nicanor Pier Giorgio Austriaco A1
A1 Providence College, Rhode Island
Abstract:
On September 27, 2007, the Catholic
bishops of Connecticut announced that they
would allow the four Catholic hospitals in
their state to comply with the state's
emergency contraception law. The
statement has generated much controversy
and criticism from those who are convinced
that Plan B is an abortifacient. This
essay summarizes and critically reviews
the scientific studies that have attempted
to uncover the mechanism of action of
levonorgestrel, the active drug in the
contraceptive commonly known as Plan B.
Mounting
and recent evidence suggests that this
emergency contraceptive has little or no
effect on post-fertilization events.
source
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BRmom
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 14
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iud...abortion?
Posted: 05-17-08 21:34pm
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I am a pro-lifer and a christian. I had an
iud for almost two yrs. I recently found
out that it actually is like having an
abortion. I went to the gyno to have it
taken out and my doc tried to convence me
otherwise. I looked it up on the internet
before i went to make sure. My doc
actually brought a laptop into the room
and we looked at websites together. When
she seen it she tried to say that was
hypotetical and wasn't the way the iud
worked. Needless to say i had it removed.
Here's how it works...first of all it
suppose to keep the egg and sperm from
meeting. It makes the cervical mucus thick
so sperm die out before reaching the
uterus. It acts as a spermicidal. It thins
the lining of your uterine wall so that if
an egg and sperm meet it does'nt attatch
to your uterus. Therefore your body
flushes it out. There are people who get
pregnant and have successful pregnancies
with an iud. Most of the BC pills do the
same thing to your uterus so that an egg
can't attatch. So I'm going the natural
way for BC. Here is a website that is
good...www.fertilityfriend.com ...also
there are things called cylcle beads.
search cycle beads on google to find out
more... So if you are a christian and
pro-life i would not reccommend
iud.....you dont even have to be a
christian...pro-life should be
enough......
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aochriss
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
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Re: iud...abortion?
Posted: 05-18-08 11:21am
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| BRmom
wrote: | | I am a pro-lifer and a
christian. I had an iud for almost two
yrs. I recently found out that it actually
is like having an abortion. I went to the
gyno to have it taken out and my doc tried
to convence me otherwise. I looked it up
on the internet before i went to make
sure. My doc actually brought a laptop
into the room and we looked at websites
together. When she seen it she tried to
say that was hypotetical and wasn't the
way the iud worked. Needless to say i had
it removed. Here's how it works...first of
all it suppose to keep the egg and sperm
from meeting. It makes the cervical mucus
thick so sperm die out before reaching the
uterus. It acts as a spermicidal. It thins
the lining of your uterine wall so that if
an egg and sperm meet it does'nt attatch
to your uterus. Therefore your body
flushes it out. There are people who get
pregnant and have successful pregnancies
with an iud. Most of the BC pills do the
same thing to your uterus so that an egg
can't attatch. So I'm going the natural
way for BC. Here is a website that is
good...www.fertilityfriend.com ...also
there are things called cylcle beads.
search cycle beads on google to find out
more... So if you are a christian and
pro-life i would not reccommend
iud.....you dont even have to be a
christian...pro-life should be
enough...... |
You are wrong, and I feel very sorry for
you. You will be killing many, many more
embryos using "natural" bc than an IUD
ever could.
P.S. If you have a child don't breast
feed, because if you do you will be having
abortions caused by breast feeding. Look
up luteal phase defect.
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oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
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Posted: 05-18-08 11:26am
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But y'know what? I don't mind that anyone
doesn't want to use an IUD, or BC pills,
or whatever. They can believe what they
like about it, and get pregnant as many
times as they want. Just so long as they
don't try to stop anyone else from using
an IUD, or birth control pills, or
condoms, or having an abortion if they
need to. That is what choice is all about.
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cmyked
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 294
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Posted: 05-18-08 16:48pm
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I'm christian, and no form of
contraception bothers me. I'd like to see
the bible passage that says "thou shalt
not use an IUD". 
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aochriss
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
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Posted: 05-18-08 17:48pm
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| oopoopoop
wrote: | | But y'know what? I don't
mind that anyone doesn't want to use an
IUD, or BC pills, or whatever. They can
believe what they like about it, and get
pregnant as many times as they want. Just
so long as they don't try to stop anyone
else from using an IUD, or birth control
pills, or condoms, or having an abortion
if they need to. That is what choice is
all about. |
But people are actively trying to force
other people not to use birth control.
One way they do this is to circulate LIES,
like the one the Vatican spread about
holes in condoms not protecting against
the HIV/AIDS virus, and another way is by
spreading the big lie about hormonal birth
control, saying that it causes abortions.
There are many pharmacists who won't fill
prescriptions for the pill or Plan B
because they have this incorrect idea.
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aochriss
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Posts: 737
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Posted: 05-18-08 17:49pm
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| cmyked
wrote: | I'm christian, and no form
of contraception bothers me. I'd like to
see the bible passage that says "thou
shalt not use an IUD".  |
lolz!!!! Me, too!
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aochriss
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
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BRmom
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 14
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Posted: 05-18-08 22:06pm
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im not trying to force anyone not to use
any type of bc. im just telling you what i
found out.
to: "nolongerhere" you are wrong about
horomonal bc not causing you to ovulate.
with the mirena you still ovulate...unless
i did the whole time i had it....but i
also had a period the whole time too...
im not out to 'get' anyone im just telling
my opinion...
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Superman12
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 2
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Pro Life
Posted: 07-10-08 04:25am
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I am pro-life to a certain extent. I
cannot say that I am 100% against
abortion. The reason being that women who
are raped or whose pregnancy puts them or
the baby in mortal danger should be
allowed to terminate the pregnancy.
However, I am against a woman having an
abortion because she was in too big of a
hurry or just didn't want to use
protection. I draw the line at the
irresponsible. Those who want to have the
fun then not deal with the consequences of
their actions. Those who do not have
control over what has happened to them or
who may die along with the unborn child I
believe should have the choice. This is
just my opinion.
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