Thanks Marty! You are sweet!

Well, I stopped smoking cigarettes, I have read the research on plastic in the miker-I'm still on the fence about that. I try to reheat in real dishes in stead of tupperware. I wash the dishes by hand most of the time cause I think it saves water. I use all natural cleaning products in my house and i use the 7th generation products like TP, and diapers. I don't buy paper towels or paper napkins, paper plates, styrofoam cups etc. It's been too darn cold lately, but in the warmer weather i try to bike everywhere I go-even with the children in tow. I don't drink bottled water because I read somewhere that water bottles are the #1 plastic trash out there right now and there have been reports that the H2o in there is just tap water. I have a Faucet filter, but our tap water is so awesome you could drink it without filtration. It makes me happy! I don't believe in sterilizing my house with bleach, since its toxic. Plus I think a few germs give the house a nice homey touch. I hang my laundry out when the weather is nice enough. I use natural toothpaste and DO, as well as shampoo and soap. I don't dye my hair, don't use styling products, and use very little make up. That about covers it. I do some pretty unhealthy stuff from time to time too. I have a terrible weakness for potato chips, which I keep in my desk drawer until one of my little urchins discovers them. I also cannot stop myself from eating the chocolate chip cookies I like to make.

heard this one many a time, it does my head in! i would have so much more respect for someone if they simply said "i eat meat because i like it and i don't want to give it up". at least that's an honest answer! there's no need to paint over the top of it with this 'reasoning' that our teeth were designed for meat eating. it's not reasoning at all, and it is a very unimaginative person who does things just cos they think that's what they were designed to do.

Well it's not just "I eat meat because the cavemen did it" it's actually an explanation as for WHY some people like it NOW. When people try to say "I eat it because I like it" they get attacked viciously for it, because thats "a stupid reason". Trust me, I've seen this debate dozens of times.

So it's more "I like to eat meat because my ancestors adapted to eat it as part of their diet, so that's why it's still in my genetic code to be capable of eating it and why my brain tells me it tastes good."

Do some vegetarians like meat and just refuse to eat it? Because I know some that won't eat meat. But will buy stuff that is not made of meat but taste similar, like canned veggie sausages and veggie burgers. If so, I bet they would like big fat burger or steak. I don’t know I’m asking..

Me.^ I said earlier that I know a good medium rare steak is great. However, I have a revulsion for it as well as self discipline. I've never been a fan of many other meat products, though. It really disgusted me.

I don't like the fake meat products; too processed for my tastes.

No, it's a good question.

Actually, during my few stints as a vegetarian, I did actually find that most over-processed meat started tasting revolting. I really found myself liking only meat that still tasted like meat and felt like meat and looked like meat.

That is very good discipline. I would have hard time when we go camping and my Hubby throws a big ole potterhouse steak on the grill, chard on both side and medium in the middle saying no to that.. I'm not sure I could do it.
I smoked on and off and only a pack every couple of day and I threw them away 6 years ago. Cold Turkey. But a steak.. I don't know!
That's good birchie..

Thanks, Marty!

You're giving me way too much credit though! I just can't say exclusively no to ice cream yet...I'll let you know when that happpens.

Smoking is tough to quit, I hear; I admire anyone who can quit cold turkey. Was that the first time you tried to quit?

yep,, I thought it was silly to suck smoke into my lungs.. I could go over a burning Barrel and do the same thing so I threw them away..
I didn't gain weight like they said either.. I power walk and eat healthy.. But I do eat meat.. and ice cream at times too.
Birchie what made you decide to give up meat?

I read alot about what's in meat and what it does your body. :vomitsmiley:

It is funny that meat is such a mainstay in todays diet, even though we can substitute any potential nutrition meat might have. We do it just because it tastes good, which is kind of sad really.


I know I couldn't kill something to eat it, I just take what's on the plate.

I personally don't do it just because it tastes good. I do it because I know it is beneficial. I know how to eat it in moderation. I know all of the minerals and nutrition I get from it and NO, I can't "just eat alternatives" instead. For one, I despise peanut butter. If I have to choose between steak or peanut butter, I'm reaching for the steak. I don't LIKE many of the "meat alternatives" like boca burgers. Those are disgusting. So very rarely am I going to chose a vegetarian substitute for meat. That's where taste comes in for me. Equal nutrition, but A tastes good and B tastes like sawdust. I'm going with A, even if it does have a little more fat and B has more vitamins.

Eating meat is a CHOICE and I actively choose to eat it. I don't just go "Oh, it's dinner" and then consume whatever is there, which is I guess what many people do. I, however, purposely choose to eat meat when I want to.

But again, I'm a circle-of-life type person. I could 100% kill something and eat it.

Just read the book Skinny B*tch, it's allll in there.

I won't judge someone for eating meat, because I have done so for my entire life, but after reading this book i won't go back. It teaches you about all of the things that go into your meat, and how just because the fda approves it doesn't mean that it's okay. There are at least 200 (or more) pesticides or SOMETHING (i'm tired) that are allowed in your meat before it isn't allowed to be sold. SICK.

Also, it talks about how cows are supposed to produce 10 gallons of milk a day, but farmers give them hormones so that they produce 100 gallons a day = more money, and we're drinking those hormones. How we do NOT need milk, we're the only species that drinks milk after we're done nursing from our mothers, and we're the only species that drinks milk from another species. & how drinking all of those hormones has caused our teenage girls to go into puberty younger, like 8 or 9 when they never used to.

I don't know, it's a great book. Even if you like meat, that's great, but it's still really interesting and I highly reccomend it =)

I read Fast Food Nation, and still felt no reason to be vegetarian or to not eat at fast food.

As for the cows, all of the milk from around here is from small local farms, not factory farms. This is a rural area and the cows are treated like pets. They are very well cared for and not high on hormones

That's good, I'm glad to hear that

I've heard that the hormones given to cows make women...um... curveyer.

I mean it gives more contour to their figure.
Is this true?
Would this have to do with young girls hitting puberty earlier?

Why doesn't this affect males?

My ancestors came from a hunter-gatherer culture and ate a lot of red meat that they hunted and killed themselves and NO they were NOT cave people. I'm talking two generations ago. Look at the Inuit people. Their traditional diet consisted of a lot of seal and whale meat and fat. There are indigenous peoples suffering epidemic diabetes because they have strayed from a diet that consisted of a lot of red meat and fat to one of processed foods. These are people that come from tens of thousands of years of hunter gatherer diet and have switched to an agrarian diet despite having an intolerance to wheat and milk and their products. Some scientists even attribute some of the high rates of alcoholism in some indigenous communities partially to this intolerance to the grains and sugars in alcohol (other reasons being social ones obviously.) So, there are people who are healthier eating red meat and fish who are not cave men or primitives. I just wanted to throw that into the fray. I am not against vegetarianism in any way and I understand the aversion to eating slaughterhouse/hormone ridden/long suffering/cloned/cow/chicken/pig meat. I'm talking about meat from a moose or caribou that has lived a happy life eating from clean marshes or tundra and fish that swim in clear streams and clean lakes.

^I have no problem with that at all. It makes absolute sense.



If you think about milk, for example, & what it's purpose is for-feeding baby cows-and then look in the mirror (not a baby cow) it makes sense not to drink it.

I couldn't tell you the last time I had a glass of milk.

You might be interested in reading about the effects of milk. Try a google scholar search.

What would people suggest for women to maintain a healthy calcium level without the use of dairy. Women DO need calcium, desperately...especially if they've born children (pregnancy drains calcium and depletes bone mass). We're quite prone to osteoporosis and we're supposed to maintain a high calcium intake once we reach our early thirties in age.

Given that, I think a lot of females actually DO need milk or some other high calcium intake that doesn't require mass consumption each day to get what we need. Any suggestions on non-dairy foods that will provide the amount of calcium that dairy does? Personally I hate milk and I eat two Tums a day rather than take it, but for the naturalist that might not be an option.