I totally agree with this!! The only reason my doctor let me be sterilized was I had two already and a history of really bad chit happening and nearly dying having my last. I was 25.

Trying to get a tubal ligation was the most degrading experience of my life. All of these doctors essentially patting me on the head and saying condescendingly, "You'll change your mind when you meet the right man." My insurance company saying they wouldn't cover the procedure unless I had a psych evaluation. And family members asking me what was wrong with me that I didn't want a baaaybeee like "real women" do.

It sucked, but after six years of doo doo, I finally got my tubal. That was fifteen years ago, and I've never regretted it for even one second. If an "accident" had occurred in those six years, I would have sued every doctor that turned me down, right along with the insurance company. Hell, I might have even thrown a few family members in just for giggles.

I agree ^^ I also believe this is why men should not have the final say in the termination of a pregnancy. Most women worth their salt will listen to her partner in earnest if they are in a loving relationship and weigh his thoughts into the decision carefully. But I can't stand it when a woman reporst that "he" wouldn't "let me".

I was in the ER in severe pain like I had never experienced. They refused to treat me until they determined I was not pregnant. I insisted that I wanted treatment pronto and would sign whatever form they wished. I explained that I would not be having any child I might be pregnant with. I desperately reasoned that if I were pregnant, this stress couldn't be good.

They refused until they could perform a urine test.

I could not produce urine because I had a kidney stone.

I eventally dribbled drops into a cup just barely holding to my sanity.

If I weren't so desperate for treatment I would have made an enormous cacophony in the ER about it. They had my balls in a vise, so to speak.

I agree with the 'elective sterilization'. My friend has one kid and is 20. Even though if she becomes pregnant again, it will literally kill her (heart condition). Because she is 'young' and 'doesn't have enough kids' she cannot have her tubes tied, even though it's in direct risk of her dying if she becomes pregnant. And people wonder why we're 'over populated'.

Another thing I don't understand is how they can determine that the baby 'is another human being'. Not saying it isn't, but according to the government (US anyway), you only exist if you have a social security number. So until that baby is born, I consider it still part of the mother in every way, and what the mom does shouldn't count against the baby, legally anyway. Saying 'that baby can't make decisions for itself'. When can it? It obviously can't as soon as it's out of the womb. I'm not aloud to play my game because I'm pregnant because 'the baby doesn't chose to be in this situation'. Mom's determine what 'situations' their children are in until they are teenagers basically.

I find it ridiculous, Birch, you're in agony, but they can't do ANYTHING without determining you're not pregnant. What if you were? would they have just left you on the table in agony until you got better? It's definitely getting ridiculous, especially in that situation.

Why couldn't they just do a blood test?! Dear god! That's malpractice.

That is sick! I always get asked if there is any chance I could be pregnant and the answer 'No' always suffices

They may have been trying to determine if I had an etopic pregnancy, in which case, givemethemorphineNOW because it wouldn't matter anyways.

I think there was some insurance reason why they didn't do a blood test.

It's not the physicians in the ER I was irritated with, it was the hospital policy. Or so they said. Maybe they just saw my inherent value in breeding only and that my right for self-determination was in conflict with my "maternal instinct" and the pain would somehow be lessened if I found out I was gestating a kidney stone in my uterus instead of those delicate tubes from the kidney to the bladder.

And interestingly enough, they sort of whisked in the room and put my feet on stirrups and did a pelvic exam before I even knew what was happened. My bf was right there, I didn't really care b/c I'm not concerned about that, but they didn't ask me about doing that or seem to have any sense of decency about that.

It was like, "Hello ER, meet my vagina."

O.o how mortifying... then again, incredible pain would have been my only concern at the time and getting RID of it!!

I agree 100%

In live everything should be one a give and take basis, if you take to much or give too much you cause extremese to occur. Guys care about getting laid they never think of consequences they dont have to because they are not the one who suffers for nine effin months, god I hated pregnancy with a passion. I wanted a tubal ligation and was refused (two children) and for vaginal birth they refused me it infuriates me that I have limited control on my own body right now. If that is the case why dont men be forced to get their tubes tied...

Well it seems this distorted orientation has surprisingly been getting some support. Now to the fun part..... After first reading Darkmoon's radical appeal it seemed to be nothing more than a simplistic sarcastic view of pregnancy, paralleled with that of Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal attempting to fuse some sort of under toned message but after realizing this was possibly being interpreted literally all I could do was laugh (for the most part... you do have one minute singular point).

You attempt to justify the dispersion of women's rights because they have to answer questions regarding possible pregnancy, in response to medical care. Therefore, because a woman is receiving medical treatment and questions are asked about a possible pregnancy this is a delay tactic used to rob a woman of her rights???! Then you go on a rank on how all women are treated as being pre-pregnant? Do you know WHY??? They do this because if a woman is receiving treatment and a doctor did not ask questions about pregnancy (or ignores it as you want to) and a "possible" pregnancy exists (and her developing child is hurt) the doctor would be viable for a LAWSUIT! Most of us who live on earth feel is NOT a good thing. Unless you're also the type to use false lawsuits as a means of income?

"This slippery slope is getting steeper and slicker with each day. Pregnant women are assigned lesser rights than everyone else. It's not so hard to imagine that the government will soon put women on house arrest or confine them until birth once pregnancy is reported."
And besides two minor court cases out of thousands you justify this also? I certainly hope this is sarcasm. It seems in your world pregnancy is an afterthought followed by a daily dose of a familiar friend... Captain Morgan.

Now to addressing your supposed "reform"...

1) "Free of charge" are you insane? Where will that money come from? Oh yeah... taxes! Who wants to pay for some other woman's decision to sterilize herself?
and regardless of parental or spousal wishes? What age do you consider mature?

2) Contraception free also? Wow, more raises in taxes! what a suprise

3)Referring to pregnancy as "enslavement" is humorous at best but I'll get to that later. "Any attempt to refuse to do his/her job should result in immediate termination of employment, charges of attempted homicide (considering that pregnancy/birth/abortion can kill women"
Cars kill people also why don't we press charges of homicide against auto companies?! Statistically, speaking you have more of a chance of dieing in an accident then pregnancy. That's right Nissan your probably on the next hit list!*sarcasm

4)"the "right to free speech" null and void in the interests of protecting women from harassment." That's right because you're "pro-choice" and want to take away a Liberty established under the United States!= hypocrite/double standard

5) "Discrimination against pregnant women must be completely illegal" FINALLY SOMETHING I AGREE WITH. "Failure to do so will result in malpractice suites" I already addressed that.

6)"Men need to stop equating sex with love and consider whether their orgasm is more important than the health of the women they claim to love."... and you're the one who speaks of discrimination while at the same time you endorse generalization! Since you claim pregnancy is SOOO harmful in the vast majorities of cases why don't we just end the human race. *woot woot!

"I keep seeing prolifers insisting that pregnancy isn't a punishment but that simply isn't true"
... yeah, because not only continuing the human race, but also giving birth to offspring (that is your own child) is a PUNISHMENT?!

"as will the number of women desperate for sterilization so that they can have love" because love is impossible with children?!


In conclusion... next time you feel like posting please attempt to make it devoid of all the hypocracy and distortion that litters this one. Currently you have a right to free speech but maybe you want to take that away also? Generally, you seem like an intelligent individual but next time some more thought is most certainly suggested in an article addressing what should/shouldn't be enforced! Peace out.

Yes, it IS a punishment, if YOU don't want to do it. Why must we hold procreation in such high regard?

In the case of men who oppose abortion rights, I believe many of them do so because it is their last hope of controlling women and keeping them subjugated.

Women can achieve the same status as men in just about every area - professional, economic, intellectual, social, political. But as long as they remain slaves to their reproductive organs, men will still hold the trump card.

Yes. It's a hard concept for nary a sixteen year old but some people actually don't like pregnancy. Or the human race.

Peace out.

Well, I am alarmed at what happened when you went into the ER. You had a right to help for your pain instead of the grand inquisition.

Here is what happened to me for exactly the same emergency. I went into the ER and they asked where it hurt. I pointed to my back and kidneys, They immediately prescibed a shot of morphine and then asked me to pee to see if there was blood. The blood was there and they gave me a prescription for pain and sent me on my way. It took me about thirty minutes tops.

So, your ER trip seems even more ridiculous. Another burden for women to bear and it's not fair.

"Yes. It's a hard concept for nary a sixteen year old but some people actually don't like pregnancy"
Then don't have sex and take the risk! Your pathetic attempt at claiming superiority based on age only demeans your own intelligence.

Goodness, I was there for about 6 hours!

I can understand the docs not wanting to get sued but I was willing to sign every form they'd give me.

I guess then I could just say I wasn't in my right mind and turn around and sue 'em anyways.

Everybody's balls were in a vise.



It's not a superiority thing, it's a developmental thing. 16 years old are in a certain place in their development and it is difficult for them to understand certain kinds of concepts. It's not personal, it's factual. You might be interested in reading about Erikson, Kohlberg, and Piaget.

If you were actually 16, of course.

I don't like pregnancy, but I sure like sex! And I'm going to do it like a rabbit, and if b.c. fails, I will abort.