Hello Job,

Welcome to this forum and the great people who post and try to help others.

Thanks for sharing your story. A most difficult time you have had. What came through to me was your determination. Determination to somehow overcome. WONDERFUL!!!! So glad to read that you can now walk some. That is most encouraging. However, do take it easy. It takes longe for our bodies to heal than our mind thinks it does.

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look a bit later.

Regarding your question about taking ibuprofen after fusion - Job, it would seem best that you obtain your doctor's opinion and thoughts about this.

Take care. Keep in touch and let us know how you are progressing.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

RichT

I just stumbled onto your post.

I was stunned to read all that you are going through. You have seen many doctors about your problems, but I wanted you to know that I just had spinal fusion on the L4 L5 vertebraes just 9 weeks ago.

I don't know what your doctors are telling you, but if you are dealing with Fusion, the orthopedic doctor, a specialist in spine surgery, told me immediately that I was not to take any type of anti-inflammatories. Neither Celebrex, Toradol not even Ibuprofin (Advil)of any dosage.

I have had many other type surgeries and these anti-inflammatories have always given me more relief then any narcotic. BUT my surgeon specified to me that I was not to take in any way these type meds no matter how much relief I got because THEY INTERFERRED WITH THE FUSION PROCESS!
Now I am not a doctor, but I trusted my surgeon from the Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio. Because I could not stand to take drugs like Ultracet, Percocet,
Lyrica, not even morphine because I would go into an altered mental state where I was almost delusional. Therefore, from week two post op I was on Tylenol Extra-strength 2 tablets every 6 hours around the clock. The other med that was given me was Visterol for muscle spasms in the back, and down the legs post op.
That too I took for only 2 weeks because I found myself sleeping my life away.

My doctor is still amazed that I went through what I did taking only Tylenol. But with grit and determination and 3 daughters who were determined that Mom was going to make it through this type surgery.

My sympathies go out for you because I know how difficult all of this is and worse, not being able to get back to living ones life without pain, without being confined and no help from the doctor that began the process for you has to be nothing but
screaming frustration.

Keep talking to the posters and get all of this emotion out because you can find
comfort while dealing with these problems as others respond to your difficulties.

God Bless and Good Luck
Marie B.

Thaniks so very much for your post of support for Job. You shared some very important information thoughts and wisdom.

I hope you will have the time to post some words of support to Carrie.

Take care my good friend.

RichT

See! Here again is someone calling out for help with so many views and so little replies. There are over 60 views, so you can't tell me you have not read it. Now where the flipping heck is the support? Sometimes just a kind or soothing phrase is all it takes. Now that I myself am in this postition, I realize the pain that accompanies it. This also shows there are alot of members that come to this forum. We all tend to have favorite forums that apply to us and that is fine. But, if you visit a forum on a regulare basis you should share some helpin avdice in that forum. I know you can be axpected to post in every forum on this site, it would take forever. Bit the ones you visit, there is no excuss!

Hello Job,

Chills went up and down my spine as I watched your video. A beautiful young lady so full of life with your magic smile - and now I can't even comprend the pain and all that you have been through.

Job, thank you so very much for sharing. And thanks to your husband for having produced a very special video. One that I wish many will see.

I will look at your 2nd link tomorrow. A mass of info - I took a peek.

I hope you understand that Carrie has had a most difficult day today. Perhaps the two of you could give support to each other.

My thoughts and prayers are and will be with you.

RichT

Thank you so much-Rich, Marie and Carrie for your kind words and especially for prayers. I dont know how I survived all this...in fact, I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for my husband. He put so much energy in a research in order to understand what was wrong with my ADR...he was with me every minute that he possibly could... We transferred to Germany 3 years ago with our jobs (Texas Instruments). I came to Germany as a healthy person and was completely ruined in 2 years flat. The video that you saw Rich, was from 2 months before all this nightmare started. I am 30 y.o. there. Now, 3 long, unimaginable painful years in bed...Not only I spent all this time in bed and in pain, we were alone in a foreign country, no relatives or any friends...I was alone all that time when my husband was at work to support us.
The worst thing was that my original surgeon who implanted ADR is a very high level and he made a mistake...and didnt want to accept the responsibly. He claims 94-100% success rate and many americans fly specifically to germany for there ADRs. But, because he said that there is no problem, my treatment was basically blocked and I could only stay in bed, cry and pray for death at that point....Long story...it is all written in the link that I gave above.
I am not really expecting any support , I have been through hell and survived all by myself. I do understand that people who visit such forums are in too much pain to write and they are searching for answers...
I posted it here to let people know what can happen.... My husband did a huge amount of research before choosing ADR (and the Prodisc) and we were still fooled! Fooled by trials, by not adequate information and lack of information on device... People do not know that revision is practically impossible and life threatening. I know a few people who are preparing for revisions from ADRs...Horrible.
ADR is promising to be 23billion dollar business-everyone wants a piece from such cake and human life sometimes dont matter...

I was actually posting at ADR "support" forum but that forum should be called "Support for ADR". The owner of the site is promoting artificial disc fiercely and I got persecuted basically for posting my story. BUT, I DID received tons of support and prayers from people there. I was overwhelmed with compassion that was poured onto me while I was still in the hospital, fighting post op complications and my husband was reading all those posts from people asking to let them know asap how it went (everyone knew that I was going on a suicide mission with this revision). I am not really a "forum" person but seeing how many people care, I put my updates from time to time. The administrator was closing my thread, reopening it (all my posts are sensible, pure facts). He suspended my account without any warnings..reopened it again. People couldnt understand what was wrong as I was simply posting my monthly updates.
Forgot to mention-the surgeon that did my original ADR operation,( while i wasnt a candidate for it), is on the board of directors on that forum...is it a coincidence that I got booted from that site? :rolled eyes:
Last time I posted my 2,5 months update and I got verbally attacked by a former american representative of Pro$spine, the place where my outstanding ADR surgery was done. I suppose they didnt like my post because it showed that I was recovering and doing better! I didnt respond on the attack but, I was kicked out anyway the same day. The same thing happened with many others that I know of. Many people who supported me through that terrible time- complained, disgusted my the admins behavior - and they got banned or censored too.
I just hope that through my example-many others can be saved... I dont know if after two major surgeries like that (not counting 2 useless IDETs before) I will have any hope for life... At this point-I lost everything. I am looking around...I wish I could do things, go to places, I wish I could have a family (that we were planning to have before I had a disc rapture)...We both cannot believe what happened. I never had any back pain before 3 years ago...and I never recovered from it. I put my trust in doctors-which was a huge mistake at that point. (I had only one level DDD. My disc was black but thick. I didnt have any leg pains but a doctor did IDET-he drilled 7 mm hole into the disc to take some nucleus pulposes out, which accelerated dramatically the cascading degeneration. I never recovered from that first operation. Then it was second one. Then ADR, Then fusion...not counting my ruined knee-just for fun of it. We learned later that the doc is on a crusade to prove that shaving condroplasty is great for saving a knee from total knee replacement! Do I look like I needed a knee replacement on that video?! It was a pure experiment and 4 doctors were shocked to see that the healthy patella...got shaved!) And, just to be fair, those were GERMAN doctors who were shocked. They hate that Klinik in Munich. They mock it as a money-making machine. You dont even get to see the surgeon.
People should know. If you go overseas to get a surgery ( I had no choice ), realize that they can do ANYTHING to you - and there is basically NOTHING you can do about it. That's why they can do things that American surgeons cant. The legal system protects surgeons. There is no FDA. The trial reports are SELF-MONITORED. This was told to us by German doctors who were mocking my ADR surgeon's claims of 98.2% success. They said he is 'very generous to himself', and it is 'statistically impossible'. Since now the FDA trial shows the Prodisc has 53% success, I have to wonder about the 98.2%. Was it a lucky 'window' of patients? Did some records get 'lost-to-follow-up'? Did they cherry-pick perfect candidates for the trial, and then open the flood-gates to people like me?
Now, I want everyone to see my video - so that 'THEY' know that everyone knows. I am very afraid to return to Germany now. I want to die in the USA, not in Germany.

Good Morning Job,

I hope you rested well.

Thank you for sharing. You have written a very powerful and mind-awakening post. Your caution about how the German system is is much appeciated. Unfortunately, you didn't have a choice.

You and your husband tried very hard to make the right decision for you. That''s what many of us on this forum try to do, and yet, the odds are never 100% for any of us.

Job, it isn't just in Germany that there are doctors like the horrid one you experienced. There are those in the U.S. that are no different. It is SOOOoo very difficult to get HONEST truthful research data and patient information.

A back forum web site closed a thread a number of us had learned a lot from each other and supported each other. What closed the thread down? Because we sujpported each other with "my prayers are with you", God will be at your side during your surgery", etc. They would not admit it, but it was very evident that was the case. The Admin of EHealth have always been understanding in this regard.

I hope Carrianne will post here and give you her support. A very fine lady who recently had back surgery as did Marie.

Please thank your husband for the tremendous effort I know he put into the video. Every minute of his time was worth it for all of us, for all people who view it.

Job, you are so fortunate to have a loving caring supporting husband as you do. He has stayed with you thruogh this hell. You and I both know that some spouses would not in such very trying times.

I hope and pray that there will be better days ahead for you especially, but also for you as a couple.

Before closing, could you please tell me what the letters ADR stand for. Perhaps you stated it earlier, or it may have been in the video and I missed it. Thank you.

Take care.

RichT

Rich the letters ADR stand for ARTIFICIAL DISC REPLACEMENT.

I was posting as above and then I lost the thread by a fluke of the computer.


Rich, I know of only one person who had disc replacement. I believe his surgery was done in the US. I don't know enough about his surgery or this type of surgery to do much commenting. What I do know is that in SOME CASES the point of getting to the spine is by entering through the abdomen to get to the spinal locaton where the compression has taken place. I repeat SOME CASES. And the post op period can be very painful and difficult for the person finding themselves in this situation. Nor do I know if there are different sizes of artificial discs because I have never researched the subject. But if there are, I can see a female requiring something smaller then what JOB had done.

I'm sorry JOB is not American military connected. They have been known to fly cases back home for difficult surgery.

JOB, I'm sorry for addressing Rich and not directing the conversation to you, but I can only give you sympathy and no real help. My heart goes out to you. I can only offer prayers for you from this distance.

Marie B.

I contacted the person who had disc replacement and asked permission for repeating his surgical experience. He agreed to my posting his post op.
Hope this helps.

I'm sad to learn of this woman's pain from

her operation in Germany. As I was stationed in Germany at the time, I

visited one of Germany's leading spinal surgery clinics. However, in

speaking with the American orthopedic surgeons, I was strenuously

counseled to seek the surgery in the U.S. The reason - the Germans

have a lot of superb surgeons, but unlike the checks and balances we

have in the U.S., they also have a lot of charlatans. I researched a bit

more and decided to heed the advice of the U.S. doctors. I had my

procedure at the Portsmouth Naval Hospital in Norfolk, VA. My doctor,

who appears to have left the Navy for private practice, was superb. His

name was Dr. Mitchell A. Hardenbrook and according to a google search,

is now in practice in Roxbury Crossing, Massachusetts.



My spinal surgery was no piece of cake, but after several months, I

definitely began to feel human again. It took about 11 months before I

felt fully recovered and since then, have had no major complaints. I do

have some discomfort still in the abdominal area (the procedure goes

through the abdomen) and a constant ache in my back (a little thing

compared to my previous state), but all in all, I'm a whole lot better

than before my operation.



Thanks for letting me know about this woman - I will certainly keep her

in my prayers.

Talk to you later.

So that is one experience with disc replacement, JOB.

Marie B.

Job,

In reading your experiences, I don't even know what to say, but my heart is really breaking for you. I am so very sorry for all that you've gone through. You are a very courageous young woman to face all that you have faced and endure it. I know you're still in incredible pain that I can't even comprehend, but please keep praying and hold onto any faith that you have. You've certainly touched our hearts and I know that we are all going to keep God busy with our prayers for you.

God bless you,
Carrianne

Yes, they insert ADR under the naval/belly, or retroperitonial ( after ADR, the pain in the back was so bad that the incision pain was virtually non-existent!) but the real problem is that even if one has a good outcome-sooner or later the plastic core will wear out (30 years according to my doctor) and one needs a revision....which basically no one knows how to do with the Prodisc! We asked over 80 surgeons. Only 4 had ever done it. My surgeon (who would never admit a mistake), a couple surgeons in Munich, a couple surgeons in L.A., and one in London. Most surgeons refused to take it out, saying leave it in and fuse from the back. Because, worse of all, it is practically impossible to take out without killing or maiming a person. If one has ADR at L5/S1 level-the surgeon will be able to do the extraction from the same place that it was put in - through the abdomen. But if it is L4/5 and above-it is a suicide mission because the major veins run down your spine and start splitting right at the L4/5 level. http://www.spinesupport.org/papers/ADR_REV ISION_STRATEGIES.htm

After the first surgery, the area might be heavily scarred and veins literally plastered to the spine. Sometimes even a small push on vena cava will tear it and the person will bleed to death in less than 5 min! It is very hard to repair those thin veins and if it happens and you are lucky to survive-you might lose your leg! In my case, I had severe cramping in the leg for 3 weeks, and burning pain in the hip/groin area - which told the doctor that the genito-femoral nerve was irritated.
Here's an overview of the problem with extracting the Prodisc (or any other artificial disc).
http://www.spinesupport.org/papers/PRODISC _ANTERIOR_EXTRACTION.html

On the forum that I am posting now all my ordeal and updates, there are number of people with ADRs. Like Roblin51-she has two discs that were implanted crooked. She is in a horrific pain and has been waiting for her new surgeon to decide what to do. She is going for an operation and she is prepared for death - she cant tolerate pain anymore-nothing works when your spine is crooked and and discs are put upside down! There is another guy whose wife has Charite disc and dying in pain (it went well at first but ADRs cause facets joints to degenerate because of unnatural range of motions (ROM)... but nobody tells you this before.

I am communication with people with ADRs and fusions but mostly by email now - since I was banned from ADRsupport for not being a success. I do know people with ADRs who are doing well... According to FDA trials, ADRs has success in 53% of people....but the majority of them are still on heavy narcotics...I dont know how they can count this as a success if a person cannot function without opiates!

Sorry, it is a huge post again-its just there is so much info to express that I cant write just few sentences!

Marie, can you pass my email address to a person with ADR (you mentioned above)- I sent you PM. I would like to contact him if he doesnt mind.
I also hope to hear from people who had Artificial Disc Replacements...
Thanks again!

Hello Job,

No your post is not too long. There is SOOOOooo much very valuable information you share in each one of your posts. Each one of your posts is so very POWERFUL.

Please do keep on sharing.

Next to go to your link.

RichT

O well, RichT, my link was deleted... I suppose that this forum just for a chat and not for sharing information and trying to help each other. How dissapointing.
If back then, when I went for an ADR, I had the info which I found in the link that was deleted by a moderator, it would have saved my life and my "never to be family".
I suppose it is everywhere the same-it is all about power....

Hello Job,

It is not for me to judge the admin or moderators. However, would you please share your link with me by way of a PM?

Thanks

RichT