I'm OK if you want to eat meat. I just wanted to point out that to me animls and chickens, worms and people are all life.

Exactly, Darkmoon. I don't consider animals to be "less" than humans. They can feel more pain than the unborn fetus can, and so they are more worth of attention imo.

Well Darkmoon if I was there when the slaves where around I would have voiced my opinio them too.
Why would you think I would feel it is ok for slaves to be killed?
I"m sorry if you find it stange that I value a human life... But thats the way I feel..

And I do!

Which is just deplorable. Put a human out in a savanah with nothing, and he'll get eaten quickly enough. Even more we are dependent on the animals we eat for food. If they died, we'd die. They have power over us, not vice versa.

We find it strange that you value the life of a human that cannot think, feel, emote, or even survive on its own if severed from the host, YET you are okay with killing an animal which CAN feel, think, emote, and survive on its own.

You are of course entitled to you opinion, meblonde, but to me you're pretty much proving your hair color with what I consider to be twisted and elitist priorities. Not to mention judgmental on women who might not share your fair-haired and pale-skinned fortune. The gratuitous use of exclamation points really adds to the convincing properties of your control issues over other people's sex organs.

Thanks.. For the “my opinion”.. Each has their own feeling about some things, it doesn't make them twisted. I would not call you twisted because of what you believe in. Even if I don't agree. I don't stoop to degrading people. But if that what make you feel superior.. Go for it..

as I find it strange that another "human being" like yourself don't!

I am pro-human life.. there.. How's that? Like I have heard over and over in here nothing is black and white.. So I guess I would have to say I am pro-human life.
Because I care more about a human being having a chance to live then a worm.

You don't care about the mother however, because you are giving the fetus the right to control her body.

I don't really think pro-life people should have to be pro-ALL life. I don't think animals should be on the same level as people either. It has nothing to do with my view on abortion. I just don't think they are the same as people.

[edited by the admin]. I don't like Abortion. I am Pro-Choice. Now, let's really cut to the chase. I was in the U.S. Army for 12 Years, and actively in Vietnam for 4 years. 2 as a trainer of South Vietnamese troops, and almost 2 as a combat soldier and then the hospitals for a little over 2 years. I have killed people, personally and directed others to do the same. Am I an Abortionist. No!!!

I hunted for relaxation, food, and pleasure. The same with fishing. This was a way to supplement my food and gain variety without having to pay for the exotic meats.

This is not the only group I am a member of. Abortion, is one of the topics i know well. 2.5 years of arguing this topic. I recognized it and decided I needed to know what kind of arguments I would find. I have looked at the topics and this group like many others doesn't want to end abortion as much as it wants it to continue or be made illegal.

I personally would like to see Abortion remain a legal medical procedure and better the quality of Sex education in the schools. We have to move away from teaching only those things that the religious folk want taught cuz it ain't doin' the job.

Kids don't know very much. I have debated with them to long to believe otherwise. They have to be taught everything.

Now if you are willing to do that then you might stop and think about what they really need to know.

Discuss that if you will.

I still have seen no evidence that you value human life Blonde. I see ample evidence you want to control human lives but not that they have any value to you.

Come on.. You are saying a person can't eat meat and be against abortion.. Sorry you guys are reaching WAY out there on this one. And it's ridicules. I eat meat and I am Pro-Killing a human being...

I am not Pro-life for a flea if it is on my dog or Pro-life for a mosquito that is biting me.. But I am pro-life when to comes to taking a HUMAN life.

And that means I value life…Human life.. Why is that so hard to understand?

And I’m done arguing about something so silly..

I think what they are trying to say is that you have to have more conviction than that to really value human life. You have to care about the quantity of human life, but you also have to care about the quality because being alive isn't the only aspect of human life. There is a lot more to consider.

The only time it bothers me with pro-life people is if they are pro-death penalty, but against euthanasia. That is completely opposite of valuing human life. It makes no sense to me that it's okay to decide who should live and die, but it is not okay to let a family give their loved one peace from suffering. That just boggles me.

I don't, however, think meat-eating has a place in this debate. The only thing I can see having a place is whether or not animals used for food should be treated humanely. And I think everyone would feel better if they knew the cow they were eating didn't suffer, regardless of what they think of abortion.

OK Blonde so say, hypothetically, your side manages to outlaw all abortion everywhere and lock up every woman who has one no matter who she is or how many other children she has.. what about the QUALITY of life then?
Or does your alleged concern stop outside the uterus?

I wish to examine the underlying currents of this post(Abortion/Pro-Life/Meat-Eating) within the context of the following subjects Life, Death, Prey & Predator....We must first paint the picture of the universal experience of life on earth. The facts remain that whether or not killing is wrong or not, animals do kill, and eat other animals...and humans do kill and eat other animals also... the question then should arise, is it just for animals to kill and eat other animals....and who caused this to be this way...the creator, or some other cause...and was the earth supposed to be filled with animals killing and eating other animals...is this just nature, or something more sinister...we have to answer THAT question BEFORE we can go further...(i wish to pose my hypothesis on this question:) Based on my research, I have concluded that evidence shows that all creation and nature itself, including man and animal have been effected by a "prehistoric spiritual and natural digression into violence and death" not intended from the beginning...in other words, if we carefully consider what happens in nature..."something is wrong with nature itself"...it is this "wrongness"...that we are divided against and perplexed with...for we have been led to believe since birth, that if its in nature, it must be right, because the creator created nature...I feel that when we the human species pay closer examination to our ancient spiritual heritage and origins we will realize that a "falling" in nature itself has occurred...and what it fell from is where we are to measure true morality and rightness...this goes beyond this comment, but getting now to the moral delima confronting those who eat meat is a difficult one...but we can consider that if we align ourselves with what we perceive as natural before the "fall" or as some call it, the universal law of love, we would arrive at an intersection of (a)love for all creation and beings, plant, animal and humans and (b)how to demonstrate this love in an environment where nature itself is fallen...THAT IS THE PHILOSOPHICAL PREDICAMENT....My response to this philosophical predicament is "to progressive evolve back to where nature is supposed to be" by waining down the desire and apetite to eat meat...until its gone...this may take generations to accomplish....but i feel its the right direction...I also feel that at some future time... hypothetically, if the earth was filled with "christian vegatarians" who prayed for "nature itself" to be healed, God would actually "heal" nature itself...and restore it to its former "rightness"....I speak in mysteries here, but somehow when God "Heals" nature, the procreative processes of nature will be aligned with Heaven and not "generate" abhorrent things as maggots, masqitoes, and lions with a desire to eat meat ect...so until "that" day comes, I and all who envision this day to come...will respect all human life, and grow to respect all animal life while doing our part to heal nature itself...REMEMBER, THE PROCESS IS PROGRESSIVE, AND THERE DIFFERENT LEVELS FOR EVERY ONE, INSTRUCTIONS FOR ALL OF US: If you currently eat meat, you can start by not eating meat that was raised in harsh living conditions...do this by looking up websites like peta and pets are people too...raise your concienceness to at least be mindful of animals as living beings who should not be subjected to harsh living conditions....those of you who rarely eat meat, but are eating meat that was raised compassionately, you also can raise your concience and ask God for a greater awareness about eating that meat, and about healing "nature" itself...let Gods grace help rid you from any vanity or selfishness involved in your motivation for eating meat...finally to vegatarians, please pray for "nature itself" and that God will heal the world and raise its concienceness from where its fallen from...

You mean cockfighting? Just make it one word.

Why? I find it SAD that you think you're better than everything else on this planet. I'm glad you chose worms as an example, because I love me some little wormies. Seriously, when my daughter and I walk home from school on hot days, we stop and pick up the worms from the gutter to flick them back into the grass so they don't die a horrible frying death in the Texas sun. They come up through the cracks when people turn on their sprinklers and then they get stuck on the concrete. I can't imagine what that must be like for them, and I don't want to. At least once a week, I buy a bowl of night crawlers from Wal Mart and dump them into my garden so they won't have to end up skewered alive on a fishhook.

Why am I so passionate about worms? I just think they're neat. They don't bother anybody and they're so good for the earth. They eat dirt and crap primo fertilizer. They truly live in harmony with nature and don't ask much from the world around them.

Humans, on the other hand, take and take without caring what it costs, leaving in our wake nothing but destruction, pollution, and suffering. We kill our own kind for ANY REASON IMAGINABLE, including no reason at all. We'll step right over a hungry beggar and toss our smug little noses in the air on the way to an overpriced restaurant and you have the arrogant audacity to suggest we're better than animals and more worthy of life? Screw that! We're all EQUALLY worthy of being on this planet and we all should have the right to live in relative peace. Sure, it's a savage jungle out there and we have to eat one another to survive, but I think humans have taken far more than what's necessary for survival.

I'm actually totally on the other side of the fence about the issue. I think we should start thinning out the human population and leaving the animals we aren't eating alone.