I know you hate the thought that someone has control over the life of the fetus.

yeah, I think it should have a chance just like we have..

I only "had a chance" because I was wanted. My older sibling did not have nor did they "deserve" a chance because they were an accident. Thus, they were aborted.

I was a accident,, but I'm glad my Mother thought I deserved to live.

It was HER choice to make.

OK, I wasn't clear. All foetuses require existence within their host's body to survive; a paraplegic doesn't; a newborn doesn't. And the point is that foetuses are parasitic and thus it's ridiculous to allow foetuses' 'rights' to nullify a born, independent, sentient, thinking, legally-protected person's rights to decide what lives in or from her bodily resources. Cancerous tumours contain human DNA, as do hair strands and teeth and just "sit and exist there", as you put it. If they were removed they woukd 'die'. Why should these not have equal rights as humans, too?



Can I ask: are you religious? Not that I immediately assume all anti-choicers are religious, I'm just asking. Also, are there any situations where you feel abortion is permissible. For example, what are your thoughts on a woman who suffers (yes, suffers) from an ectopic pregnancy?



Why? Why are they not discrete human creatures, but foetuses are? It is our human DNA that makes us human. Please explain this one.



Well, I doubt any state would allow a woman to drive with a newborn in her lap, so your ideologies would result in a vast, vast, vast percentage of pregnan woman getting an arrested. That's repugnant.

Human Being
any individual of the genus Homo, esp. a member of the species Homo sapiens.

Person
an individual Human Being, MAN, WOMAN, or CHILD.

For those that think the Fetus should have equal rights, are you ready to make monthly visits to your physician, so he can notify the proper government agency of the progress of your pregnancy. Are you ready to have a government agency track your pregnancy. Are you willing to have a government agency tell you when you can get an Ectopic Pregnancy excised. But, it doesn't make any difference which survives, they are equal in value. But, are they?

No, they are not. You have a female Human Being and a Human Zygote. The Human zygote is only a potential Human Embryo, the woman is a human being and if the ectopic pregnancy isn't treated and the Zygote excised both the Female Human Being and the Human Zygote die.

If you Google artificial Uterus or artificial Womb, you can read all about the latest developments in the field of Obstetrics.

Well, It is getting close in to this old mans bedtime and he has to close his classroom next week and get the final grades posted and all that silliness.

Digest that posibility when you think about giving a Fetus the same Rights as a female Human Being.

This is intriguing. What do you teach? You realize that you represent a demographic not commonly linked to the pro-choice cause. I find that very interesting. I hope you stay around for a while. Welcome to the boards.

American History College level including analysis of history. I don't know what you speak of, MY age, sex, or educational level. if my age there are others in their late 50's through mid 60', but not all of us are interested in the computer except for the knowledge we can gain. I am rather old for MySpace, but I am a member in good standing.

My sex there are many men debating abortion but those that do are generally much younger than 70. I just like to argue and the topic is great. I just put a young fellow through his paces with the Roe v Wade decision. By doing so, I proved that the constitution and it's amendments did not include the ZYGOTE, EMBRYO, FETUS in the Constitution and amendments definition of person. Particularly as the word person is used in the 14th amendment.

Many of the 18 - 29 group have at least a BA/BS, some of these are in the MASTERS programs and intend to go for a Ph.D or MD or the equivalent

Well I think its great to have the perspective of someone of your age and experience, as well as education advocating for choice. Thank you for doing it.

you are double talking agian..

welcome hairy head..
Oh no, I feel like I'm in school and have to watch my p's and q's..

welcome!!!

HELLO, Everybody hasta watch where they pee' and don't ask hard questions, old teach don't like hard questions.

Never ask old smart ass "where babies come from."

That's not the point.

Msrosie was talking about abortion "not harming" the embryo/fetus/person.

Actually, "it" is a person, according to many dictionaries:

per·son (plural peo·ple per·sons (formal)) noun 1. human being: an individual human being 2. human’s body: a human being’s body, often including the clothing
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_18617252 17/person.html

per•son Pronunciation: (pûr'sun),-n. 2. a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing. 6. the body of a living human being, sometimes including the clothes being worn: He had no money on his person. http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0584644.htm l

Main Entry: per·son 1 : HUMAN: 4 a archaic : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being; http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book =Dictionary&va=person&x=16&y=1 6

Person: Pronunciation puhr sEn Definition 1. a human being. Definition 2. the body of a human being. Example the clothes on his person. http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?scr ipt=search&matchent=person&matchty pe=exact

IF that subject comes up, I'll be sure to follow your advice. In this case, that was not the subject. So maybe you should follow your own advice?

You know, when you think about it, we all have "control" over the "born" people around us, too. We have, in most cases, the physical power to take their lives. But do you really feel that power equals a moral right?

Personally, I don't consider being in the location where you were created to be a justification to kill you, and I consider the taking of innocent human life much, much more ridiculous than being forced to share resources for nine months.


Ownership of resources is not sufficient, IMO, to justify taking innocent life. We would not use ownership as justification to take a born life, would we?


No, I am not.


Self preservation is possibly the strongest of basic human instincts, and I don't think it can be judged morally. And since we have no way to help an embryo so implanted, a surgical abortion is indicated for that condition.


Logically it can be understood that a creature is a distinct organism, not a part of an organism. Further, a fetus qualifies by the usual definitions of that word, while body parts do not.

Main Entry: crea·ture Function: noun1 : something created either animate or inanimate: as a : a lower animal; especially : a farm animal b : a human being c : a being of anomalous or uncertain aspect or nature

I don't know of anyone who is advocating "equal rights" for unborn humans. Only one right is needed for them..... the right not to be electively killed.

And I consider the forcing of a woman to gestate a parasite that has more rights than her, the advocacy that a woman be imprisoned for manslaughter if she miscarries, the advocacy that a woman be disallowed from driving because she is pregnant, the advocacy that a pregnant woman be imprisoned for falling onto her belly etc. etc. far, far, far, far, far more ridiculous!



No, because as I have been telling you time and time again: the born and the unborn are not the same. Not the same scientifically nor morally nor legally. Besides, nobody owns a born human being. Women own their own bodies and foetuses occupy that possession, as well as freely living off other bodily resources. It is an alien inside the body because the body of the female tries to attack and expel the foetus continually throughout the pregnancy.

I don't think living within a woman's womb is sufficient to kill that woman's right to bodily autonomy, giving a non-legally-recognised parasitic body of human DNA more rights than her. But hey, since we differ morally, the only moral answer is for us to both have our rights to exercise our individual morals - I can abort if I see it necessary morally and you don't have to if you don't see it morally necessary. Even by your own admission that the abortion debates is one of morals the pro-life movement is morally flawed.



Hmmm... you weren't being entirely clear. But I will ask you again based on the feeling I got: are you saying you support the legal right to abort ectopic pregnancies? But wait a minute, you said earlier that the "location of creation" does not jusify abortion...



I can back the core pro-choice ideology based on what you said above: since foetuses are also part of an organism they do not and should not have more rights that the distinct organism (woman) itself.