BEAUTIFUL~! I used this as a debate on another forum I think it should start shaking the bridge abit shortly~!

BEAUTIFUL~! I used this as a debate on another forum I think it should start shaking the bridge abit shortly~!

Whoa! Triple post. It must be extra, extra, extra beautiful

What exactly did you use as the debate? The article I posted?

Yep and they are all avoiding the topic and then all I get is abortion is homicide abortion is this......

Im so happy im open-minded its a priveledge

Keep it up. I stumbled across that article by chance - and I'm so glad I did!

Talking of pro-lifers avoiding comments, yodavater is yet to answer my points. Oh yodiiiiiiii, wherever you are, come back

Its true though its puts you in a position where you make the choice to agree or disagree (one hell of a smart woman) but shes stating it for what it is....

Yep, I am in awe at how she manages to rubbish the pro-life argument whilst making it seem so simple to do so. Well, in fact it is easy, it just requires a pensive character like Wendy McElroy to inforce the message.

You must have me confused with someone else. I've never "cut off" anyone. But I also didn't say what you claimed, either. Morals can be debated by comparing them to each other, but values cannot be logically debated. They are simply opinions, and no logic is involved.


I don't know of any one individual who can "enforce" their moral views on another, legally, so that's hyperbole.

However, you yourself probably do "enforce" your moral views on others, by your support of local criminal laws. Did you realize that?

Even if we stipulated that, what would it prove?


And a one year old is not entirely the same as a two year old. So do you equate "value" with age and size, or what?


Actually, there are some states that already have laws which punish women who knowingly expose their unborn babies to cocaine or other addictive drugs and/or alcohol. Fetal alcohol syndrome, and fetal addiction are serious health problems.

But I'm honored to know that I'm the first prolifer you've encountered who actually is consistent in saying that no law should discriminate against the unborn. And I'm also saddened, because I think that's the only logical position for our side.

Do I need permission to be absent from here?

why do you take everything so personally?

just a question.

how do I do this?

Um... that particular post contained my name twice, once in very large bold letters..... any more questions for me.... ??? Do you ever ask prochoicers similar questions?

By supporting criminal laws, you support the imposition of penalties for certain acts.... thereby "forcing" your opinion on people who might otherwise commit those acts.

Without law there would be complete Chaos and god forbid if someone one shot you now because they took the laws into their own hands......

you steal you go to Jail
You talk caca and hurt someone you dont (Can be morally right or wrong)
you homicide a person you got jail
You have an abortion you don't (can be morally right or wrong)
you sell Drugs you got to jail (Cocaine) or get a severe penalty
you watch someone do drugs (can be morally right or wrong)

catch my drift

If done in moderation, things can balance out, if you are too much on one side you remove other peoples rights. She doesnt support it but when it comes down to it she understands that is she gets caught for stealing that chocolate bar, shes going to go to jail.

You make your own decisions and reap the consequences (or rewards from them)_
Humans evolve because we learn, if we do not allow ourselves to makes choices and learn from our mistakes then we we'll alway be jane or john doe.

And yodi you still havent answered Kypros quetsion....



You saids its illegal to own someone elses body? So then why should a fetus have the right to own the body in which it is within?

You brought it up. You mentioned societal morals and I said society is pro-choice.


And a one year old is not entirely the same as a two year old. So do you equate "value" with age and size, or what?[/quote]

I cannot state simply what I equate value with, but I will explain. Foetuses are parasitic. Not one single foetus can survive independently. It exists solely by living in and off another person's bodily resources. I believe that person's bodily resources belong to the woman, not the foetus. Also, regulating pro-life laws such as "pregnant woman cannot drive" are next to impossible. Most pregnant women would be imprisoned, which is laughable but scary.

If, like you, you value anything and everything with human DNA, you end up claiming that teeth, tumours, and cancers are separate human entities with a right to life. Value, for me, comes at birth. When the foetus ceases to be a parasite, is biologically independent, and recognised as such by the law.



So it is logical to arrest a pregnant woman for driving a car as it endangers a human life, just as it is by driving with a newborn in your arms. That's sad and far, far, far rom logical.

There are many laws I do not support. I do not support laws making prostitution illegal, laws mandating seat belts, helmets for bikes, laws prohibiting soft core drug use ie. marijuana etc. etc.

For the most part, I do not support the govt. telling me what to do with my body if it doesn't harm other people. And, before you say it, even IF I felt the embryo/fetus were a person, I do not think that abortion is harmful to it.

This is a pretty good concept to sit and stew about.

Unless you are a total anarchist you are going to be doing this, I suppose.

Does that mean it's 'right'?
Does participating in society mean that you support criminal laws?
Is this a form of secondary consent?
How does this fit in with abortion?

Good food for thought.

My perspective is that you can do what you like with yourself and your life, up to the point where it infringes on my right to do what I like with myself and my life. That means you can't steal my stuff or injure me, or keep me from legitimately enjoying my stuff on my own property. It doesn't mean I can play my obscene and obnoxious music so loudly that you can't listen to your own obscene and obnoxious music in peace. If I want to have oral or anal sex, as long as it is with a consensting adult, why should that be illegal? Drugs? Legalise it all, but have big penalties for doing any harm or damage to anyone in the process.

This is not anarchy, it's libertarianism.