Is fertilization the same point as conception? If so then life begins at conception.


Fertilization: If sperm does meet and penetrate a mature egg after ovulation, it will fertilize it. When the sperm penetrates the egg, changes occur in the protein coating around it to prevent other sperm from entering. At the moment of fertilization, your baby's genetic make-up is complete, including its sex. Since the mother can provide only X chromosomes (she's XX), if a Y sperm fertilizes the egg, your baby will be a boy (XY); if an X sperm fertilizes the egg, your baby will be a girl (XX).

http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/51/40 790.htm

but there are cases where more than one sperm enter the egg. there can be one xx and one xy. Recent studies give support to this being the cause of some forms of hermaphrodites.

Unlike a chimera which is the blending of two zygotes into one this situation results in one one egg two sperm equal one zygote.

To add to the first question may I ask would a chimera have two souls in one body a hermaphrodite a soul and a half. Do eggs contain one half of the soul and sperm the other half? Since conjoined twins are two individuals from an incompletly split zygote do they only have one shared soul.

I think it's a very good point. Obviously twins do not have one soul cut in half or anything like that. This of course proves that neither birth control nor plan-b are abortions.

Fertilization and conception are NOT the same thing.

Fertilization is when the sperm meets the egg. Conception is when the already-fertilized egg implants in the uterus. Implantation and Conception are the same thing. Conception is an out-dated word.

Or MAYBE - the soul doesn't enter until the child breathes air for the first time. Or maybe not until "quickening". Or maybe not until it is "viable".

I think placing ensoulment so early is clearly causing some major issues. So the simplest and most logical answer is that (if it happens) it must happen later.

I'm not prolife or anything, but I think life begins before conception. The sperm and the egg are certainly alive.

And as far as the "ensoulment" concept...well, there are no "rules" for how this may or may not work. It's science fiction. Maybe twins have the same "force" running through them both. Maybe they have split souls. Who knows when you are talking about spiritual matters?

Maybe a soul just doesn't exist, rather it's personality based on experience? JMO.

Fetuses don't have souls, and judging by how bratty some kids are, I would venture to say that there are some children who have no souls either. Come on - born babies shriek all night when their parental units need to be up early for work, they crap themselves at the worst times, they cry for food and then don't eat when you feed them, just to name a few of the "joys" of parenthood. A creature like this can't possibly have a soul because it's a selfish little beast.

I think a person develops a soul when they become capable of thinking of the well-being of another person (not always 'gimme gimme gimme').

Also, don't expect pro-lifers to get their facts straight. The don't rely on facts to back up their pitiful arguments - they use their Catholic God and biased religious sources because facts prove their beliefs wrong (and they don't like being wrong).

This is a really neat topic. I have often wondered at what point the z/e/f becomes a real person. If one believed ina soul, then I guess it would be safe to assume that the z/e/f gains personhood at this time. Many cultures believe that the birth cry is the shock of the soul entering the body of the newborn. I was aware of the uniqueness of my children prior to their births, but I can't exactly tell you how I knew of them or when it occurred. I do remember it being fairly late in the pregnancy, say after 6 months or so. I believe that souls are somewhat eternal and go through many life cycles before they are absorbed back into the greater cosmos from which they came. This is probably why abortion and euthanasia are not negative events to me. I assume that all souls visit this earth again.

Let me tell you a story. My grandfather meant the world to me and I am pretty sure i meant the world to him. I have seen him many times since his death. Once, I moved out of a basement apartment a week early than I needed to because I just felt pressured to get out. The day I finished moving as I was driving across town, I swear i saw him driving in front of me. The next day we had a huge flood and the apartment I was living in was filled with 7 feet of water. Also, I believe he used to visit my house often, and I would come home frequently to the smell of Bel Air Cigarettes burning in my bathroom. It was comforting, in a way to think he was looking out for me. Some time before Hannah was born, his visits ceased and I haven't seen him since. Ironically enough, her little personality is cantankerous just like his was and she's even bowl legged like he was. Did his soul enter her? I really don't know. But I do remember having a day dream of lying with her ina translucent white oval shaped sort of bubble after a yoga class one day. I was comforted by this vision and felt safe inside of our protective shield. It was this moment that i first felt her as an individual.

Does this answer the question? Probably not, but it was very interesting to ponder. Thanks for bringing this up!

That's how I viewed souls as a kid; it never made sense to me that heaven and hell were piling up with new souls each day! They HAD to "recycle", it was silly otherwise.

I don't have FACTS to say The fetuses have souls.. So how do you have facts that they don't?? You don't! So now, who is getting facts wrong here?

personaly i beleive the soul is just a personality which you develop through lifes experiences and has nothing to do with gestation

Wow, I got a chill up my back reading this! How cool that your grandfather was looking out for you. I don't doubt one bit that he reincarnated into your daughter.

Well, I would never presume to know for sure, but the thought makes me pretty happy and keeps the crabby one out of trouble!

It would be incredibly sweet if a child of mine ended up with my grandpa's soul, but I have no idea if I believe in that. If I did, my theory would be a mix of rotating souls, and then when they get enough experiences they rejoin the Universal soul. Or something XD

I think those cultures that believe in reincarnation would generally see that birth is when the soul enters the body. The Tibetan Buddhists, for instance, look for a child born around the time that an old Lama dies -- not one that is conceived when the old one dies.

Personally, I don't really get the "soul" concept. You are either alive, or not. It's all about life and experience and personality. The idea of a "soul" doesn't really fly.

Well I hope I don't embarrass you by agreeing with you, because I agree with your statements totally, except for the "science fiction" part.

I think that the complete uncertainty and "unprovability" about when "ensoulment" may occur makes the subject entirely irrelevant to the moral nature of elective abortion.

I thought that having a soul was what made the case for homicide. As in the belief that animals do not have souls so it is OK to kill and eat them for food.

removing a clump of eight cells with no soul from the body of another surely is not homicide. If so why is it.

The sperm and the egg are no more alive than most other body cells. (which is why a skin cell can be cloned into another individual) .

On a religious level "ensoulment" is entirely relevent to the moral nature of abortion. Historically ensoulment took place with the drawing of the first breath (as in "god" breathing in life to adam)

Hey, this is somewhat unrelated and might derail the thread, but we went and watched "The Golden Compass" yesterday. The souls of these folks in this alternate relatity rests outside their physical bodies. I wonder when they get them? Did anyone read the book?

no Birch but I want to see the movie.. was it good?